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Old 04-27-2007, 07:10 AM   #1
frpe82
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Default PART 2: Advance/retard timing on EZ116K

You guys remember this thread, right?: Advance/retard timing on EZ116K

Here comes part 2, overkill...



The circuit diagrams are made in a simple program for illustration only, so please donīt comment on the quality of my schematics.

Now that you know that, letīs begin.



For the love of god, donīt do this mod if...

* You are not familiar with the sound of knock/ping.
* You do not understand the implications this might have on your engine.
* You do not have any basic electronics and/or fault-tracing skills.

The results will be disastrous if you donīt know what you are doing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all: This mod will not be acting in the same logical way as the mechanical retard/advance from turning the distributor you may be familiar with on/from the LH2.2 system.

This mod will alter the base values used in the algorithms and logarithms of the chip in the ECU, and will not be a linear function like the statical change in ignition timing on LH2.2.

This mod will work on both turbo and NA, both chipped and stock EZK. Although I recommend that this mod is done on the chipped EZK since that chip has the optimal ignition curve. The stock EZK doesnīt. Trust me, I promise you that by all that is holy.

On the stock EZK you may get some "holes" in the ignition map with too much or too little ignition advance, and the mod you make will be somewhat of a compromise between off-boost and on-boost power or a compromise between high rpm or low rpm power.

Either way, any of the EZKīs will be somewhat tuneable, chipped or not.

For this mod we will use one or both of the following: Pin #2 and pin #8 on the EZK.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

We'll start with pin #2 on the EZK:

* Connected to the coolant sensor (ECT) in the head.

* Unlike the LH2.4 fuel side, the ECT when connected to the EZK is not used to determine when the engine is fully warmed up, and when to stop using the parameters in the cold-running map (in the LH2.4 fuel ECU this means more fuel injected when the car is colder than ~65*C).

* The voltage fed to this pin will read ~1.5V when the coolant temperature is between summer and winter thermostat setting. At this time, the ignition map in the EZK will be un-altered, and the car will be running like intended.

* The voltage drops when the engine gets hotter, and rises when the engine gets colder.



So what can we do? What is the mod you are talking about?


Advancing and retarding the ignition.
Some safety against knock/ping because the function of rising engine temperature is sustained.

Component list:
* One 10 KOhm potentiometer of your choice (for ease of installation).
* Two 1 KOhm resistors.
* Two 470 Ohm resistors.




This mod will give you the ability to adjust the output from the ECT between ~50% and ~170% of its current voltage (at normal engine temperatures), and thereby giving you a stepless control over the ignition advance and retard.

Since it is adjusting the output of the ECT and not a fixed voltage supply, the ignition advance/retard as an effect of cylinder head temperature still works. It will not work exactly in the same way as stock though.

Once you have tried the potentiometer and you know which values works best under certain circumstances (race gas at the track, a hot day in traffic etc.), you can of course substitute the potentiometer with an array of select resistors to have a few known predetermined steps/setups to use.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I will continue this article/post soon, so stay tuned...

Then I will also add how to make a working/successful mod for EZK pin #8 to be able to adjust the timing retard/advance in accordance to load and mass-flow through the AMM.

See you soon,
Fredrik

Last edited by frpe82; 11-26-2008 at 04:45 PM..
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Old 04-27-2007, 07:11 AM   #2
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*pulls up a front row seat*
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Old 04-27-2007, 08:51 AM   #3
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**** looks liek i just picked up 50whp hahaha


fred your lack of aim talk theswe days is really making your fanclub (me) upset
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Old 04-27-2007, 09:21 AM   #4
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Fred, 12 - 15 hours ....., man you make me crazy

I'm curious about what you've hatched this time ....
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Old 04-27-2007, 09:58 AM   #5
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:18 AM   #6
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I dont even have LH2.4 and im waitin for the results, good stuff mate!
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:31 AM   #7
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I love how flexible the LH 2.4 stuff is becoming now that we have the swedes messing with it.
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:40 AM   #8
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Interesting......Hmmmmm.

I'd like to see mods for ignition maps when running large overlap cams like A & K cams.
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I love how flexible the LH 2.4 stuff is becoming now that we have the swedes messing with it.

yes, i concur.. go swedes, go
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:19 PM   #10
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very very nice! I can use some extra timing options (not just static extra advance) now im running with a lot of E85 in the tank!
Another neat LH/EZK trick
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
Fred, 12 - 15 hours ....., man you make me crazy

I'm curious about what you've hatched this time ....
OK... so it took 18 hours, but I think that you will all be pleased when it is finished.

The article/post is not done as you might see, so please donīt start a discussion about it just yet.

I will however accept that you all tell me how excited you are and how useful it might be...
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:19 AM   #12
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i dont even own a car with LH and I am very excited to see what you've come up with.
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:23 AM   #13
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Ok, ok...

I will throw in a little teaser for you:

Instead of using a general potentiometer like the one mentioned in the first post, you can use this...



It is adjustable from 0-999 parts of a thousand. Adjustable enough for you guys? Easy to set up the correct ignition retard/advance?

Oh... and it looks like the housing has the same shape and fitment as the Volvo buttons for the foglight etc. that you put in the dash
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:31 AM   #14
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wow thats neat.
MORE!
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Old 04-28-2007, 03:30 AM   #15
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really phat idea, do you sleeping on tech books or who gives you such grazy tip's

Just thinking about how i can work on a link from your mod and this circuit: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/knock.html (does anybody know if this circuit works?)

because i'm actually searching for a knock circuit which can handle my T+Kit solenoid .....

Last edited by stoni; 04-28-2007 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 04-28-2007, 08:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
really phat idea, do you sleeping on tech books or who gives you such grazy tip's
I am a technical engineer with the emphasis on digital circuit design and fault-tracing.

These things are easy as pie for me.

Oh... and I am the chip guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
Just thinking about how i can work on a link from your mod and this circuit: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/knock.html

because i'm actually searching for a knock circuit which can handle my T+Kit solenoid .....
What are you really looking for? What do you actually want to do?

A knock warning light?

Or something to happen when knock occurs?



EDIT:// I didnīt get that you were actually asking a question about the T+ solenoid...

Do you have a complete Turbo+ system installed? Because if you do, then Turbo+ will lower the boost when/if dangerous knock occurs.
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
What are you really looking for? What do you actually want to do?

A knock warning light?

Or something to happen when knock occurs?
Yes and Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
EDIT:// I didnīt get that you were actually asking a question about the T+ solenoid...

Do you have a complete Turbo+ system installed? Because if you do, then Turbo+ will lower the boost when/if dangerous knock occurs.
Yes, T+ is installed, but the T+ circuit is offline. If i want more boost as stock, i switch it on (the solenoid) with a normal switch which is installed near the foglight (it's a second foglight switch...), so the boost rises not only on full trottle and more than 4000U, the boost rises immediately.

And now i'm searching for a circuit, witch switches the solenoid off in case of knocking (or i can do something else with this signal), since i'm also plan to install a overboost-function (additional to the T+Kit), so i have one reason more to find a solution.

The Plan is, to run with stock boost on gas and with the T+ activated incl. overboost on E85.

Last edited by stoni; 04-29-2007 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 04-28-2007, 01:18 PM   #18
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Old 04-28-2007, 02:25 PM   #19
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in for later
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Old 04-28-2007, 04:07 PM   #20
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LH2.4 for Life
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:11 PM   #21
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I didnīt have the time to finish the rest of the article today, but I will do it Sunday night (Sunday afternoon/evening for you US residents).

The anticipation is endless...
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Old 04-29-2007, 03:52 AM   #22
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Smart people rule.

Later,
Stephen
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Old 04-29-2007, 11:41 PM   #23
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Hi Fredrik
I would like to be able to take advantage of the higher octane benefits LPG fuel, which presumably means the ability dial additional ignition advance easily from the drivers seat.
I would want to change this only ocassionally, and depending on what fuel I am running.
This is because my Volvo now has LPG / petrol (gas) dual fuel.
Here in OZ, LPG is around 100 RON. Premium unleaded is widely available, at 95 and 98 RON.
Looking forward to your post!
Cheers
Simon
1989 740 GLE B234F LPG/petrol dual fuel
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:22 AM   #24
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I have not had the time today to finish it.
Monday night is when itīs going to happen.
Stay tuned...
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vvpete View Post
Interesting......Hmmmmm.

I'd like to see mods for ignition maps when running large overlap cams like A & K cams.
Do A & K Cams have a website?
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