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-   -   Has anyone done an eBrick yet? (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=360241)

hk 40 05-07-2021 02:11 AM

Has anyone done a high performance eBrick yet?
 
???? If not its certainly about time..... Lets brainstorm it and see what ideas are out there.

Regards,
Hubert

James M 05-07-2021 02:22 AM

<a href="https://ibb.co/wgC1JHv"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/54vVYD7/Screenshot-20210506-232023.png" alt="Screenshot-20210506-232023" border="0"></a>

R-Pow3R3d 05-07-2021 04:08 AM

There's gotta be enough crashed out Teslas by now to make this real possible.

Janspeed 05-07-2021 04:51 AM

240 electric
(Dutch language, sorry)
https://youtu.be/RnqIva4WXAY
I've seen that car as it was displayed in a volvo carshow. It's really well done.
You can buy complete conversion kits to convert your own car.
https://www.newelectric.nl/automotive/
It's not cheap though.
Here's a video about NewElectric in which they discuss the conversion of a US-market 240/260.
They convert it, get it road legal in NL and exporting this road legal Volvo 240-EV to Sweden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGEIWO_nIjU

jlfenton95 05-07-2021 05:49 AM

https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/7150/...-the-evolvo/p1

Fa182 05-07-2021 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlfenton95 (Post 6182241)

This is awesome, great read.
Amazed by the workmanship that went into this.

Swedbrick 05-07-2021 08:06 AM

I've briefly considered taking the straight bit of rear driveshaft on my 7-series and replacing it with a 100kw electric unit, thrunk has plenty of space for batteries if you put in a square box. The biggest downside to a driveshaft connected setup is that the e-motor will only reliably go to 6000rpm at that power output, so your top speed would be limited to about 60-70 mph. Awesome torque and weight distribution though on a wagon.

Fork truck motors can be had cheaply, and are a through axle design. If your willing to get to building your own battery packs, you could get something somewhat functional for 1-1.5k. Panamera on a budget

JohnMc 05-07-2021 09:24 AM

I'll wait until Chevy makes that 800 hp 'e-COPO' motor that bolts right in where an LS motor was.

blkaplan 05-07-2021 09:44 AM

its been on my wish list for a while to do.

hk 40 05-07-2021 09:52 AM

Series wound dc motors are mostly used for Drag and should give good results at a track the most practical and more efficient for daily driving is a 3 phase induction motor with no magnets. A 3 phase PMAC machine would really work but the issue is construction of one for a diy is very hazardous as the rare earth can smash an appendage etc. The challenge running three phase is the inverter must be much more sophisticated than one to drive a brushed motors with a basic h bridge. I think I want to do this with the '77 242. I need to gather more pieces. Here are the cells you might use and they be series strapped to 120volts minimum but id prefer a full 480 to lower the amperage requirement. I have a old friend who is a motor designer from Germany Ive been working with him and the Dr. at NC State on revolutionary high efficiency electric motor windings. I've been deep in this research for the last 10 years. The other option is an in wheel hub design. The external rotor machine can be used effectively for that type of drive system. At mercedes benz we do something quite different than all of this in the arrow AQ. The new motors will be fractionally slotted concentrated winds for there compactness ease of manufacture and better copper fill potential the issue is the space harmonics the slots create. They lower the power factor and efficiency of the machines and generate heat. The new winds Ive learned from the Dr Sariful Islam at NC state DEECS (ABB corporate research center on campus) attenuate or totally eliminate these harmonics that create eddy current rotor losses and winding losses created by the zero order circulating currents of a delta machine. The delta is desired as it has a higher power density than a wye wound machine. The new winds are hybrid wye - delta serially connected. The wye machine act like a variable load reactor. I have here a lamination that was designed by ATE. This is who provides the porsche e lemans machine powerplant. Im probably the only one in the world with a lamination in hand to build such an external rotor e machine for the car. The Cars will move to a new 48 volt design patent by drs Dieter Gerling and Dajaku Guruquk it is called the ISCAD. Intelligent stator cage design. This thing can change pole counts on the fly. Different pole slot combinations render different results. Some would be better for high speed and others torque the design intuitively select what best for the current driving situation. It is a very high current machine that runs at only 48 volts to produce the kW a high performance an e car would need
Here's what a hybrid induction motor looks like and the configuration of the coils in it for high efficiency. There's alot more to explain but I don't wanna get too crazy at this point. One thing to note is that the rpm of a induction machine is based on a 60 or 50 hz frequency but you can vary its speed by using a variable frequency drive aka VFD
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...9&d=1573692556
Here's on I have 7.5kW and plan to use with a rotary phase converter for the shop to vary induction motor speeds. Its brings 240 3 phase to the shop tools. The drives have acel and dcel ramps current limiters etc. Even low pass filtering that mitigates some of the harmonics I mentioned previously. Ill show you the 49 Volt ISCAD design next. In the meantime enjoy my first handhed y-d winding prototype . it is one of the only ones in existence in the world. There is another in Cambridge UK and 1 or two in Germany. That's it! https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...1&d=1613924594

Regards
Hubert

hk 40 05-07-2021 10:18 AM

https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...1&d=1580219583
The wye - delta series connection used for it is this.

If you pulled this off in a motor of an appropriate size you will have TESLA grade motor tech in your brick. Dr Gerlings principles are all throughout Elons rotating machines. Prius is Dr Hendershot and I have all that data and photos as well



Regards
Hubert

cwdodson88 05-07-2021 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMc (Post 6182264)
I'll wait until Chevy makes that 800 hp 'e-COPO' motor that bolts right in where an LS motor was.

Thats been available for a while, the e-copo was not the first... I personally built that motor. Also the motors for the Genovation GXE, LS platform Z06's, and the E-Cobra Jet. All of those motors came across my bench. :)

www.cascadiamotion.com (Formerly AMRacing and Rhinehart Motion Systems)

We design, manufacture, and support a pretty good array of motors, inverters, gearboxes, couplings, and are coming out with battery modules and BMS/Charging systems in the next year or so. I'm just the motor and gearbox assembly guy, but I have personally built and tested every motor and gearbox that has left our facility over the last 4 years.

There's a "EV Bot" calculator on our website. Our GM was the head of BorgWarner's Turbo division and the lead on the EFR project lineup, including the E--Turbo EFR series. So naturally he likes to give user configuration tools out to the masses to aid in getting the right thing to the right person.

If custom parts, adapters, bellhousing plates are needed, our sales team can help putting things into perspective.

hk 40 05-07-2021 10:25 AM

https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...p;d=1575544393
Here an example on how much more elaborate the bridges become to drive FSCW motors with low harmonics and tripplen currents. This is to drive a in wheel hub motor with open ended winding coils wound this way
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...5&d=1576733122
.

hk 40 05-07-2021 10:27 AM

The thesis I will be working on when I go to grad school with be cooling the motor directly in the air gap with ferrofluid, This is cutting edge trust me. When u keep the motor cool the throughput power increases dramatically the ferrofluid increases the thermal conductivity by a factor of 4 allowing the machine to radiate its heat out much more effectively. You could also used compressed gas like nitrous or co2 for cryogenic reactions. That will definitely cool things.
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...3&d=1556662170
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...1&d=1556662110
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...9&d=1556662273


Regards
Hubert

hk 40 05-07-2021 10:34 AM

We can do something no one has done yet in a volvo. The world is moving this way. Get into it....

cwdodson88 05-07-2021 10:41 AM

I built a motor for a e-1800. Made right about 900hp on my dyno. Theyre set up to put down about 522kw (~700hp) peak burst, with about 400kw continuous with their battery bank and inverter setup. If they pushed it to 800v, I wouldnt expect to see it put down less than 900hp to the wheels.

http://evolvproject.com/

hk 40 05-07-2021 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwdodson88 (Post 6182280)
I built a motor for a e-1800. Made right about 900hp on my dyno. Theyre set up to put down about 522kw (~700hp) peak burst, with about 400kw continuous with their battery bank and inverter setup. If they pushed it to 800v, I wouldnt expect to see it put down less than 900hp to the wheels.

http://evolvproject.com/

:cool:
what were the torque numbers?
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...1&d=1595338621
Here are the cells were using right now actually for car stereo but these are true ev cells. U have to set up a balanced charge system to keep them living for years. 5 in series here with copper busses.

cwdodson88 05-07-2021 11:11 AM

Our signature "Dual Stack" runs around 800-850 nm on the shaft. Depending on the power electronics and Voltage behind it, you can expect to see full torque up to about 8000rpm. At 800v I'd say that 900hp is the easy number. If you can keep your electronics cool, 950hp on the shaft isnt outside the capabilities of the motor. They also have the ability to rev (at higher DC BUS voltage) to 11-12,000 rpm. Being Liquid cooled, they will take that beating a lot, especially if your cooling components can keep the oil at optimum temp.

hk 40 05-07-2021 11:20 AM

Nice...Dual stack? stators or complete machines in tandem? In tandem u may be able to tie a wye and delta motor in series as long as the wye coils are left open ended. This allows for harmonic mitigation and one inverter for two machines. The windings and current capabilities would need to be matched in the machines at a winding ratio of the square root of 3. and sqrrt3/2 if you start paralleling coils. U can also tie two wyes together serially as long as one is wound with open ended coils but there will be no harmonic attenuation with that just two wye motors running off one inverter. I will send you some papers if you are building the machines. U see the ATE design inspired lamination here in the photo. No one has this. Its was sent direct from my colleague who holds several patents in motor and fuel cell design and well as aircraft instrumentation. We are not eye to eye about some other issues currently. However this was a gift from him.

Regards
Hubert

hk 40 05-07-2021 11:32 AM

ATE
 

culberro 05-07-2021 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hk 40 (Post 6182276)
[CENTER]The thesis I will be working on when I go to grad school with be cooling the motor directly in the air gap...


Regards
Hubert

Sounds Like what DHX has been doing for a while.
https://www.dhxmachines.com/

JohnMc 05-07-2021 11:42 AM

So is the hot junkyard style ticket to still get your hands on a Chevy Bolt battery pack? Seems like they're easier to fit into a 'legacy' type car. Designed from scratch EV's seem to have that whole skateboard thing going, not an easy retrofit, unless you just sort of perch some random car body on top and take it on a ride.

hk 40 05-07-2021 11:44 AM

Yes but there's plenty of work left to do as they haven't made all the relevant correlations to frequency and windage yet. I wont cant share them at this point as they are my thesis. My design also does not submerge the entire machine in coolant but rather isolating it to only the gap
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...5&d=1578095808
Heres a photo of on e of my stators cooled to -29 celcius cryogenically. This was a simple table top test with compressed butane. You could use C02 or nitrous for the same reactions.

culberro 05-07-2021 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hk 40 (Post 6182313)
Yes but there's plenty of work left to do as they haven't made all the relevant correlations to frequency and windage yet. I wont cant share them at this point as they are my thesis. My design also does not submerge the entire machine in coolant but rather isolating it to only the gap
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...5&d=1578095808
Heres a photo of on e of my stators cooled to -29 celcius.

DHX only cools the outer coils/gaps. They don't spray cool the inner rotor.

Being able to change the # of poles is really neat, especially if you can reduce back EMF at higher speeds.

hk 40 05-07-2021 11:49 AM

ISCAD yes I think Tesla will end up there. Dr Gerling had to sever ties with me because I work for benz so that points to him working with Tesla.


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