Turbobricks Forums

Turbobricks Forums (https://forums.turbobricks.com/index.php)
-   maintenance & nonperformance (https://forums.turbobricks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   My first DIY clutch job (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=365362)

apollokid 08-28-2022 11:42 AM

My first DIY clutch job
 
Hello everyone, yesterday I started to replace the clucth on my father's 940 B200FT with M90 gearbox.
Car was bought on this February and it has a problem since the to disengage the clutch the drivers has to press the pedal very down to the floor.
Apart from that the clust was not slipping and if you shift slowly the drivability was fine.

As you know the 940 turbo with M90 manual gearbox is provided witha double mass flywheel that is no more available as a spare replacement since different years and from what I know this kind of flywheel cannot be resurfaced.
Many of you have an automatic gearbox but not all and I believe someone of you could have more exprerience with old RWD flywheels, abused and not.

Please, what do you think about the status of this flywheel? Can be reused or must be replaced?
Which could be the worst scenario if I replace only clutch disc, pressure plate and release bearing leaving this old flywheel?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0


Here were I indicate with my finger ther is a little groove but generally the surface is smooth at the touch and there is no gap exiting from the contact area with the clutch disc.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

ZVOLV 08-28-2022 12:40 PM

We replace the flywheels when doing clutches to avoid a come back.

Yours is shot.

Maybe source a good dog dish flywheel for LH2.4. I have a resurfaced 2.4 wheel and diesel clutch disc and a Sachs pressure plate (I forget which) in front of my M90. I just broke it in and it is going great.

Acke 08-28-2022 01:29 PM

Skandix offers a replacement kit if you choose to go the new parts route.
https://www.skandix.de/en/spare-part...n-kit/1052166/

ZVOLV 08-28-2022 01:57 PM

There you go. ^^^

That pilot bearing adaptor in the kit is interesting.

Visit the M90 thread for clutch info: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=94325

apollokid 08-28-2022 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZVOLV (Post 6283230)
We replace the flywheels when doing clutches to avoid a come back.

Yours is shot.

And if I'll remount it with a new clutch kit what could happen? I suppose that also in the worst scenario clutch should be much better than it was before. Is'n it?
Or it could be worst than before?

ZVOLV 08-28-2022 05:48 PM

If you are really on a budget you can try to remove the glazing and toss is back in. It could end up slipping.

Khrrck 08-29-2022 01:00 AM

You might be able to find someone who will machine a dual mass flywheel. (It at least looks possible to chuck it up, looking at the photos) Googling around, seems like people have mixed results and you probably won't get a warranty on its performance or longevity.

ClassicSwede also has a less expensive kit. But I think the cheapest option will be getting a dog-dish flywheel from someone and then ordering the appropriate clutch.

apollokid 08-29-2022 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZVOLV (Post 6283266)
If you are really on a budget you can try to remove the glazing and toss is back in. It could end up slipping.

With "removing the glazing" do you mean to give a little polish with sand paper by hand?
If not sticly mandatory I would prefer to not replace the flywheel and buy a new clutch kit since I've already bought a Volvo 272331 clutch kit.

I add one thing that I didn't tell you before, this is a stock car and it will never be driven heavily, my dad is 73 years old, he don't plan to tow anything and he isn't a driver who wants to see smoke exit from the tyres. Furthermore we live in plain and the most frequent hill that we rise is the exit of the garage.

P.S. A friend of mine suggested me to try searching for an used one in better condition, I'm not an expert with clutches (and that's why I asked help to you) but all these ones doesn't seem to my eye in much better conditions than mine: https://www.autoparts-24.com/volvo-940/flywheel/1/

P.S.S. I know the classicsweed conversion kit, but a person I know has some problems buying spare parts from that site and I had to remount the car quickly (I cannot wait for weeks)

ZVOLV 08-29-2022 10:22 AM

You could try your luck with a die grinder and a little red "cookie" disc. I know some guys love to do this on brake rotors.

You already have the clutch for this flywheel, I would just clean it up the best you can and get the car back on the road. Almost every Volvo flywheel I have pulled has cracks and glazing and was still holding normal driving conditions.

dl242gt 08-29-2022 04:00 PM

^^I use the little discs in my drill and they work very well for cleaning up the flywheel surface. You can buy a kit at a local auto parts store. Comes with the arbor and a few discs for doing brake rotors.

59volvo 08-30-2022 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dl242gt (Post 6283371)
^^I use the little discs in my drill and they work very well for cleaning up the flywheel surface. You can buy a kit at a local auto parts store. Comes with the arbor and a few discs for doing brake rotors.

is this like what you do? (video uses orbital sander on brake rotor)

apollokid 08-30-2022 04:06 AM

May be you are talking about something like this: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XbLmyC8P1p8 ?

Honestly my clutch tech knowledge is too basic to say if it's a good idea or not, I red the comments at the video and there are both people who say that is a good job and othe that is absolutely wrong.

In the while I tried to learn why hot spots are so bad and I thisnk to have found the answer into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeqzZniVmrM
I think that hot spots bring to slip the disc since the hotspots are harder and with a lower coefficient of friction but yesterday evening I've made this test: I cleaned up the contact surface of my dad's flywheel with break cleaner and I compared the friction of the old disc to the new one and in the opposite of what I believe the new one has a better grip than the old.
And since the old was never slipping, I cannot image a reason why the new one it should (at least for a while).

Any correction to this reasoning is appreciated.

dl242gt 08-30-2022 01:05 PM

The discs work fine as a home surface conditioning on a flywheel. However, it's not as good as what a machine shop can do for the surface. You could also do it by hand with grit cloth as well.:)

apollokid 09-08-2022 09:04 AM

Hello, at the end I've reinstalled the flywheel as-is without any DIY resurfacing.
The clutch seems to work fine but the most beautiful thing is that now the pedal has become a piece of butter. It's incredible!!!!
The first time I believed to have forgotten to reconnect the slave cylinder :lol:
To drive a car with a so soft clutch is a really a pleasure :cool:

Thanks very much to everybody for your opinions and feedback!


P.S. In the next months I will have to do the same job to my 940 (same engine, same gearbox), I hope to find a better flywheel than the one of my dad's car :-P

dl242gt 09-08-2022 03:38 PM

Glad you got it rolling! Well done.

ZVOLV 09-09-2022 12:42 AM

Good to hear. How did you hold the crank still to torque the flywheel bolts? Or did you just slam em in with a strong gun?

apollokid 09-10-2022 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZVOLV (Post 6285326)
Good to hear. How did you hold the crank still to torque the flywheel bolts? Or did you just slam em in with a strong gun?

I've loosed the bolts by using an impact gun but for tighten them with a torque wrench I built a clone of the Volvo 9995112 flywheel locking tool.
I tighten the bolts to 70Nm as reported into the Haynes workshop manual and I've applied also medium thread locking compound.

I believe that as alternative solution you could hold the crankshaft from the front but I preferred doing this way.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

Since I had to replace the main rear oil seal I've built also an inserting tool.
I share you some pictures in the case it may be usefull to someone to copy the idea.
NOTE: this was my first attempt doing this job, but next time I will improve it by replacing my old MTB sprocket with a solid plate and I will add 4 screws on the outside to better register the insertion depth (in my case it was 3mm inside)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

dl242gt 09-10-2022 10:05 AM

I like your creative thinking to come up with the tools for the job. :cool:

ZVOLV 09-10-2022 01:30 PM

Thanks for sharing. Well done.

What Volvo part is it that works perfectly for pressing in the rear crank seal? I got the tip here and used it, but I forgot...

apollokid 09-11-2022 02:55 PM

@ZVOLV: I'm sorry but I don't know which tool Volvo suggests for inserting the oil seal. I will try to search for it in my documents and if I find it I'll tell you.

@dl242gt: Thanks for you appreciation, may be it's a bit off-topic, but for doing this job I've build also two ramps/cribs using the steel spare tyres of my and my dad's 940.
They are very strong and stable and the idea was to rise the rear in this way and using for the front a couple of strong 6T jack stands placed under the subframe.
Unfortunately I discovered that for removing the transmission shaft at least one rear wheel must be left free to rotate so I could use ony one and for the other side I'had to use another jack stand (hopefully a 3T at maximum extension was fine)

What is yourt opinion about this idea?


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

MasterBlaster 09-11-2022 03:06 PM

No duct tape or coat hanger wire???

dl242gt 09-11-2022 03:25 PM

Those ramps and wood blocks look good for raising the car up. However, for easy driveshaft removal. I use the jack points so the rear axle hangs. This takes all the tension off the driveshaft making it easier to remove.

apollokid 09-11-2022 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterBlaster (Post 6285677)
No duct tape or coat hanger wire???

Do you think they are not strong enought to support the weight of the car or they are less safe that commercial ramps, wood cribs or rubber Race Ramps Adjustable Wheel Cribs?
Please show me why, I'm always open to other opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dl242gt (Post 6285679)
However, for easy driveshaft removal. I use the jack points so the rear axle hangs. This takes all the tension off the driveshaft making it easier to remove.

I'm sorry but I didn't understand what you are meaning, too. Do you say that you jack the rear and put it on jack stands under the jacking points?
If it is so ok, but the problem rising the rear of the car from the side is that the rear jacking point is also the best place where to put the jack stand.
I found an alternative point where to put the jack but I'm not confortable using it (also if it is solid) and I whould like to build a trolley jack extension and not use a wood block.
By using ramps objectively to rise the rear of the car is quicker and safer.

dl242gt 09-12-2022 01:28 PM

OK, I raise the rear of the car on the differential. this raises the whole back of the car at once. Then I can put the jackstands on the jack points on both sides. Next lower the car on to the jack stands. Once the car is safely on the stands you can remove the jack from the differential and the axle will hang with no tension on the driveshaft.

apollokid 09-12-2022 01:45 PM

You are right, jacking the rear of the car from the differential is the best way, fast and safe as jacking the front from the jacking plate belove the steering rack.

My problem is that I work into a garage that is longer only an half meter the 940 and so I must rise the rear from the sides (I enter the car by rear).


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.