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Taking my car back home, time for FI

I hear you. This wagon will be my DD for sure. Planning a road trip for April to Colorado that I'm convinced that I'm taking the 240 come hell or high water.

So the consensus is that I'm spinning my wheels with ITBs...? What you're saying is that it's impossible to dial in and run well across the RPM range, am I hearing this correctly?

3 months to a road trip --> take the simplest and best proven path, there's alway next Summer's road trip.

If you want more power, it's much easier and cheaper to start with the factory turbo parts. Volvo was an early adopter of turbo technology and tended to make it pretty bomb proof. This allows reasonable reliability with a +T on a higher compression NA setup, and with higher boost.

I'm sure that there are lots of folks who are happy with their ITB setups. Around here, the expertise is in standard turbo setups, either factory LH Jetronic MAF or MegaSquirt MAP. I've seen very little on ITBs and Alpha-N here. The main problem is that the air flow through a single ITB behaves much differently than the air flow through a shared manifold, especially at idle. Maybe try the msextra forums for advice on alpha-N tuning?
 
Lowest $ route is clearly the dime-a-dozen B230F intake & rail. Your old B21 will need the Kjet injector holes in the head plugged; I think STS makes those plugs for low cost.

Alternately, find the build thread for "The Jolly Roger", Euro TBer. I believe he used his original KJ intake (the one in your pics) and custom built a fuel rail to mount his EFI injectors right in the original locations. I don't recall the guy's handle right now, but his English is good and he is quite helpful.

Bottom line - with your choice of MS, you can have reliable running B21 fairly quickly. As Bob says, start tuning, then learn, change, grow. You'll be pleased with how well the B21 runs with MS.

Wren is correct about the displacement of the B23..... that extra torque is always handy. Rick and Bob can steer you safely about deploying MS. Tuner Studio is a thing o beauty..... you will learn much!

Good luck
 
I converted from KJet to LH2.2, but eventually went to MS1 (3.0 PCB) on my '81 B21 NA 244. Started on the very first crank. As I'm sure you know, you can bolt up all of the FI parts from the later cars. For spark, the EASIEST solution is to use an LH2.2 distributor to get the crank/tach signal. Plan to install a wideband. Tunerstudio does a very decent job of tuning a car. Get a set of 850 injectors, and you won't have to screw with any sort of resistor pack.

If you'd like, I can give you a set of fuel / spark maps that should damned near guarantee the car starts up.

This. Im thinking about Microsquirt-ing my B200E (european guy here) and I have a 123 Dizzy, fully programmable one.

So if I want to convert my old K Jet too, all I need is like, B230 manifold + fuel rail, 850 injectors will fit right in, wire up the MS, throw in a wideband + MAP sensor for load and other goodies (coolant temp, air temp) and let the 123 dizzy do the job ? (I've spend the money on the thing already and it works well)
Planning on doing a turbo swap, stock turbo cuz im cheap (will get rebuilt) and that's it ?
What about the throttle position sensor tho ? from an 850 right ?

Sorry for stealing the thread, I do smell some knowledge here

Quick edit : I need advice with the stock Skinny rod. Late 88 K cast block, 2L, high comp, running high 98 octane fuel, no cat (not required here). Are they mandatory ? (13mil rod)
 
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Don't forget a proper TPS. MS does not use switches.

Skinny rods are fine until you add boost or spray. So no good for turbo. MaxSpeed rods on eBay $250 a set

Flat or Bumpy pistons?

Programmable Dist not an advantage and you will want to turn it off to be a "Locked" distributor, no advance.
 
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DET17-Forgive my ignorance, but...the injectors on the B21 are inside the head? Like direct injection?

Dirty Rick- That 123 dizzy, is there any advantages to it compared to the Yoshifab CAS dizzy? Maybe an explaination of both would be cool if you're familiar.

All- So there's been developments. Got the '80 B21 wagon from the shop. Also brought home a very well running '93 240 wagon for a reasonable price. My only problem is that I'm running out of space to park all these cars!!! I'm gonna have to scrap something here within the next week.

I think that in it's state, I'll be able to drive my '80 to work and back for now. Could I use the 93 for parts, yes, but it runs so well that I think it'll give me a platform to start build #2, a camp wagon. In any case, I'm sold on the B23. I can build that off of the stand for now, but grabbing the 93 this weekend has blown my parts budget. F$&k.
 
I need to work on that B23. Is this a block that can be drilled for squirters? I'm gonna have to get into that motor I know for sure anyway, it dieseled pretty bad before I pulled it, indicitive of carbon build up no? So if at that point it needs a hone and a fresh set of rings and seals then so be it. That should keep me busy for awhile.

bobxyz- I think you're right, I can go elsewhere and see how these Miata guys are tuning with Alpha-N, maybe take some tips.
 
Don't forget a proper TPS. MS does not use switches.

Skinny rods are fine until you add boost or spray. So no good for turbo. MaxSpeed rods on eBay $250 a set

Flat or Bumpy pistons?

Programmable Dist not an advantage and you will want to turn it off to be a "Locked" distributor, no advance.

Yeah, I know about the TPS, 850 one with its throttle body maybe ? Will it fit the B230 manifold ?

Cost is going to be an issue soon. Rods I'll see if my budget allows it
Pistons, I have no idea, reusing stock ones if possible, high compression B200E (euro spec).

I don't think I can lock the diff, its a fully sealed unit, it does manage it all (ignition timing, firing the coil...)

If ditching it, (optimal I know), I will need a fixed dif (have to buy that), and I'll need a power stage, no ? Might as well go for LS1 coils (do these even work with Microsquirt ?)

Awaffa, the 123 dizzy is a standalone do it all unit, its very interesting when running stock or turbo K Jet but seems like its not really suited for MS...
+ I don't think the B23 is drilled for squirters. Late B230 are - check this link http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~amh110/volvo_b230_engine.htm
 
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Since you picked up the '93 wagon, I'd focus on making THAT the reliable daily driver, and take it to Colorado. Already fuel injected, and shouldn't take much. A '93 wagon represents in some respects the very best of what the stock Volvo 240 had to offer, and wagons make for great road trip cars. What's the deal with the one you picked up? Tell us more about that. I'd spin the '80 into a project +T w/ later EFI parts, and Megasquirt.

Also... The reason people keep suggesting the relatively easy +T setup is because the ITBs are still going to be a total dog on the stock motor. If you want the car to move half decently, you need boost... or at least a hell of a lot of 8V head work or 16V swap, high compression pistons, cams etc... and then you're STILL behind what you can do with boost. If you take your time, you can find the parts you need to do the +T for a very reasonable amount of money.
 
^This. Fix the '93 up and turn that into your daily. Let the older wagon be either a refurb project or build it up into a sporty sunday driver with a B23F+T or something.
 
Yeahh, thats what I was talking about
My revised b230 on the other hand, got the provision. It has the bump on the side of the block I think all I need to do is drill them inside. Finding squirters is the hard part. I've heard that some BMW parts work well but I have no idea where to get them..

I didn't have any issues using the squirterizational kit to add squirters to my B21FT block (other than the drill bit wandering a bit and not hitting the oil galley perfectly on center). The BMW part is: 11 11 1 739 907 "Oil Spraying Nozzle", and are ~$25 each from www.getbmwparts.com. They have tiny little ball-bearing spring valves built in, but I don't know the opening pressure.
 
Since you picked up the '93 wagon, I'd focus on making THAT the reliable daily driver, and take it to Colorado. Already fuel injected, and shouldn't take much. A '93 wagon represents in some respects the very best of what the stock Volvo 240 had to offer, and wagons make for great road trip cars. What's the deal with the one you picked up? Tell us more about that. I'd spin the '80 into a project +T w/ later EFI parts, and Megasquirt.

Also... The reason people keep suggesting the relatively easy +T setup is because the ITBs are still going to be a total dog on the stock motor. If you want the car to move half decently, you need boost... or at least a hell of a lot of 8V head work or 16V swap, high compression pistons, cams etc... and then you're STILL behind what you can do with boost. If you take your time, you can find the parts you need to do the +T for a very reasonable amount of money.

Don't mind if I do my man! Its blue and a bit rusty haha. Other than that, fires right up and the only forseeable issue I have with it is that it weeps a bit of coolant from the water pump.

I was told that the motor was swapped out about 20K miles ago with a B230 with 100K miles on it. Odometer is broken and I'm not sure what mileage if broke at, but I'll get some pics this weekend. In any case, I am using it as my daily, just swapped the plates tonight and put the 80 in the garage :( It's beautiful, but I agree that it needs some work before I drive it into the ground in it's current state just to feel cool haha.

Other than that...it's kinda weird having ABS in it just by the feel of putzing around in my neighborhood this evening with all the ice still on the side streets, but...oh well. Brakes are a bit mushy compared to the 80. Methinks I just need to bleed them. Interior is blue cloth that is in dire need of a cleaning, but it does have factory plastic mats that are pretty cool. *THAT BLUE THOUGH GAHHHH*

Ummm...what else. Kinda kick ass new stereo in it... Other than that, it's a stock 245 guys... Has a roof rack that I'm not terribly fond of. If I take it off, I'll have two in the garage (the other from my '83)... No 3rd row seat (only the '80 has it). Maybe I should take pics of all of them and throw them up here for reference. What I know for certain (the only thing at this point) is that I need to get the '83 that's hanging out in the driveway scrapped! I need the doors (already removed the liftgate and one rear door), suspension components (front and rear), axle/diff, steering rack, master cylinder/booster... think that's bout it. I'd like to take the front quarter panels too, but it seems that they're welded in.

ALSO, I'd like to take the rear glass, but I have no idea how to get it out without breaking it. What would really be sweet is if when I'm chopping it up, which I have to do to get the damn thing to the scrapyard because these yahoos want to charge me to come get it (no engine or rims and "scrap price is low this time of year BS"), I could take the rear window "frames". The windows in my 80 leak a little into the cabin and I wonder that if in time, I could get the good ones from the 83 grafted in to relace the leakers. Does this make sense or should I just pay someone to take the windows out and repair/re-weld the bad areas which I heard is quite labor intensive (expensive). But there again, I don't want my baby to rust out over something that damn dumb.
 
I didn't have any issues using the squirterizational kit to add squirters to my B21FT block (other than the drill bit wandering a bit and not hitting the oil galley perfectly on center). The BMW part is: 11 11 1 739 907 "Oil Spraying Nozzle", and are ~$25 each from www.getbmwparts.com. They have tiny little ball-bearing spring valves built in, but I don't know the opening pressure.

Nice
the what kit ?

25 a piece. Hm. I might not have the budget tbh ahah
 
So I drove the blue 93 to work today, not only is the water pump weeping, but my temp gauge is pegged into the red.

What water pump do I need? Looked at ipd and there are many. I don't think I'll complain too much about changing a thermostat and coolant sensor either, but does anyone have part numbers?
 
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1Q08eO8HND0jal119QwupKYKcDug3atUg

Further investigation leads me to believe that it's the thermostat. Squeezed the top radiator hose and the temp went back down. Ugh...

But pics.

We can't see the pics..
Just change the water pump and thermostat + do a full flush.

Its really easy to change, just make sure all the belts are correctly aligned when you put it back on (nail the tension to have equal pull from both sides of the engine, since the water pump bearing support the fan AND the pulley that drives the PS and alternator)

I'd say do it, its not that much in parts and your water pump is obviously dead. Thermostat is a no brainer really. Just call them over at Ipd, they'll help with the choice (its important to pick the correct one depending on the engine, climate ect...) Don't base your choice on the thermostat that's in at the moment as sometimes its not the correct one. Again, peoples have different opinions on which temp you should go with.
 
We can't see the pics..
Just change the water pump and thermostat + do a full flush.

Its really easy to change, just make sure all the belts are correctly aligned when you put it back on (nail the tension to have equal pull from both sides of the engine, since the water pump bearing support the fan AND the pulley that drives the PS and alternator)

I'd say do it, its not that much in parts and your water pump is obviously dead. Thermostat is a no brainer really. Just call them over at Ipd, they'll help with the choice (its important to pick the correct one depending on the engine, climate ect...) Don't base your choice on the thermostat that's in at the moment as sometimes its not the correct one. Again, peoples have different opinions on which temp you should go with.

Sorry, we now have pics!
 
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