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Need new brakes. Lets talk big brake kits

HP plussss, they were easy to get at the time. Something with more bite might be better, like the DTC 60s, but they will need more cooling.
The xratty rally car I work with uses DTC60s in the front and they are pretty rad. They like to be hot hot hot though.
 
culberro said:
Just some info for ya Vincent.
The RX7 brake swap uses different rotors (940 ones that are 11.25in/286mm diameter), that happen to be larger in diameter making it almost a wash (caliper force @ radius within 1-2%) from an OEM Volvo setup.

One of the main issues with the stock Volvo front brakes is cooling, at least in my experience with track days and rally racing (15in wheels btw). Even with good pads they will fade. Hawk pads on the rally car will start to go away after about 10 miles of stages or if there's a lot of downhills. I can fade the brakes on my DD within 2 laps of Oregon Raceway Park. These cars need better cooling, not more power... unless that's coming from larger rotors.

The RX7 caliper swap also results in a more firm pedal. Less pedal travel and a slight rearward shift in brake bias all sound like great upgrades to a stock Volvo 240 braking system... Especially one that can be done for less than $200.
Click to expand...

not sure about what your saying about because i never put my rx7 brakes on a volvo but usually pedal travel equates to better modulation. i would like to hear john on this subject.

what do you mean by:

culberro said:
in my experience with track days and rally racing
Click to expand...

can you elaborate?

what pads do you use? i can't take the word of a guy (i suppose) who says they overheat but doesn't name the pads he uses.

simon Dub? around here seems to run (couple of years ago) hawk blue in front & HP+ in the rear.
 
culberro said:
HP plussss, they were easy to get at the time. Something with more bite might be better, like the DTC 60s, but they will need more cooling.
The xratty rally car I work with uses DTC60s in the front and they are pretty rad. They like to be hot hot hot though.
Click to expand...

Hp plus got really got bite, that is not the problem. It's just not linear.
These are marketed for autocross (****ing around in a parking lot)

http://www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/compounds

HP Plus - Autocross & Track Brake Compound
HP Plus utilizes a unique ferro-carbon, high-tech friction material that was developed and manufactured for sport driving in autocross, Solo II and ?track day? applications. The ferro-carbon formulation offers lower wear rates and higher torque values than other competitive materials.

Rally? Da****?
 
Philippe Bellefleur said:
not sure about what your saying about because i never put my rx7 brakes on a volvo but usually pedal travel equates to better modulation. i would like to hear john on this subject.

what do you mean by:



can you elaborate?

what pads do you use? i can't take the word of a guy (i suppose) who says they overheat but doesn't name the pads he uses.

simon Dub? around here seems to run (couple of years ago) hawk blue in front & HP+ in the rear.
Click to expand...

Rally car uses Hawk HP+ (I co-drive the car), DD uses some Wagner Ceramic pads.
I wasn't directing the RX7 comment at you, mostly to Vincent.
Pedal force is easier to modulate than pedal travel. A proper rock-solid pedal is easier to modulate at the limits.
 
Mercedes-Benz W140 S-class brakes.

Downsides:
- heavy rotors increasing unsprung mass, with wrong bolt pattern for a Volvo
- really heavy iron calipers increasing unsprung mass
- unknown performance pad selection
- you'd have to be able to make the adapters yourself, or have them made

Upsides:
- used originally to bring a 2.5 ton vehicle to stop from Autobahn-speeds
- cheap, cheap, cheap, billig (second hand, new ones might be big money)
- cheap

Bought a set of calipers for less than 100 euro.
 
Marvelous3 said:
Thank you Vincent for the complete thread derail. It's been super helpful.
Click to expand...

I'm still talking about Volvo brakes no?
Put stock rotors.
Rebuild calipers.
Put good pads.
Put good fluid.

For ****'s sake. We still don't know what you wan't to do with the car. How can this tread be on topic, there is no topic.

Or

Buy this
http://www.compbrake.com/product/143/

You will feel better about yourself after spending a lot of money for no apparent reason.
That's what you want to hear?
 
Vincent Gagnon said:
You sir, prove once again that most albertans are clinically diagnosed ****tards.
Click to expand...

Why the attacks on where a person lives? Are you jelous that we can afford brake kits and hair cuts?

Or are you just upset that your lifestyle is funded by people in Alberta?
 
GTJordan said:
Why the attacks on where a person lives? Are you jelous that we can afford brake kits and hair cuts?

Or are you just upset that your lifestyle is funded by people in Alberta?
Click to expand...

Vincent is "special" leave him alone.


While im at it, hey vincent, what experience do you have racing volvo 240s? I mean the way you talk its like you have been racing them a long time on stock components
 
Tisk tisk. So much ****. All i can respond to now is the end. I did not make any comments about brakes because i do not race my 240, i have not "upgraded" the brakes so i have no advise to give. Unlike vincent. But where have i gotten my knowledge? From spending my life under cars. If i offer advice here its because i have done it myself.

I only jumped in to stand up for jordan because i DO NOT TOLLERATE PERSONAL ATTACKS expecially unprevoked. Jordan didnt ask my to stand up for him, he simply thanked me because i did. Now i ask you the SAME question. Why are YOU standing up for vincent?
 
Ignoring all the bull**** from everyone up there^, OP should do the Cadillac ATS calipers with S60R rotors. Pretty impressive what you get for the money.


I've run stock brakes, RX7 brakes, and now run the 6 pot Cayenne brakes.
 
Lord_Athlon said:
I vote for Cadillac as well. Afaik, homer doesnt make the kits anymore.
Click to expand...

Have you tried contacting him? He was very accommodating when I asked for two kits last month. Took him a few weeks to get it all together, given it wasn't a group buy. Regardless, he made it happen, in a timely manor... X2!!!

Also, from what I've read on the Caddy conversion...you'll still want to upgrade the master cylinder, which is neither a riddle or hard, nor does it involve fabrication. Lengthening the booster push-rod took under ten minutes, with the two components supplied in Homer's kit, and the Mustang Master bolted right up...no modification, just a reducer for one of the hard line fittings...but that's hardly a modification.

My only concern with the Caddy conversion is having done nothing to the rear brakes, given such a change in the front. S60r/V70r have 330mm rotors front AND rear! So what happens with a big bad rotor up front and a stock 240 rear rotor? Furthermore, what will a larger master cylinder do with the bigger front calipers and still stock rears?
 
Last edited:
Mylesofsmyles said:
My only concern with the Caddy conversion is having done nothing to the rear brakes, given such a change in the front. S60r/V70r have 330mm rotors front AND rear! So what happens with a big bad rotor up front and a stock 240 rear rotor? Furthermore, what will a larger master cylinder do with the bigger front calipers and still stock rears?
Click to expand...

I went through a similar issue with the 122 wilwoods, I had more than enough braking power on the front, but the rears are lacking. I opened up the bias valve all the way, and that helped, but for the 240 guys doing the cadillac upgrade, maybe adding a 2nd caliper on the rear would be a good idea... There was that guy a while back offering the 240 hydro e-brake brackets to add a 2nd caliper to the rear and it might be a good idea to run them in parallel.
 
cwdodson88 said:
I went through a similar issue with the 122 wilwoods, I had more than enough braking power on the front, but the rears are lacking. I opened up the bias valve all the way, and that helped, but for the 240 guys doing the cadillac upgrade, maybe adding a 2nd caliper on the rear would be a good idea... There was that guy a while back offering the 240 hydro e-brake brackets to add a 2nd caliper to the rear and it might be a good idea to run them in parallel.
Click to expand...


It'd seem more ideal to upgrade the reads in the same fashion as the fronts...adding a second pair of cast iron calipers and associated hardware/adapters seems it'd be just as expensive, but far heavier and inefficient than just getting a more complete conversion. At that point, why not consider either the S60R/V70R or Porsche Cayenne/VW Touareg conversion?
 
Mylesofsmyles said:
It'd seem more ideal to upgrade the reads in the same fashion as the fronts...adding a second pair of cast iron calipers and associated hardware/adapters seems it'd be just as expensive, but far heavier and inefficient than just getting a more complete conversion. At that point, why not consider either the S60R/V70R or Porsche Cayenne/VW Touareg conversion?
Click to expand...

In order to make some kind of rational decision on either end you have to start somewhere..Not just "can we figure out a way to bolt this up" but what piston sizes are in caliper X?
THEN you can see if idea is worthwhile and anticipate further progress or problems...
There is fortunately lots of precedent.....cars similar size and weight and doing the speeds likely done..

And you're right..In the rear probably better with one caliper correctly sized to match the front..

But so far this thread has been a typical TB Fap-fest. "I wanna know what's easiest, no changing hard line or hoses. And cheap."

I still maintain there should be a sub-forum for "I wanna do whatever is easiest" type questions..
 
John V said:
In order to make some kind of rational decision on either end you have to start somewhere..Not just "can we figure out a way to bolt this up" but what piston sizes are in caliper X?
THEN you can see if idea is worthwhile and anticipate further progress or problems...
There is fortunately lots of precedent.....cars similar size and weight and doing the speeds likely done..

And you're right..In the rear probably better with one caliper correctly sized to match the front..

But so far this thread has been a typical TB Fap-fest. "I wanna know what's easiest, no changing hard line or hoses. And cheap."

I still maintain there should be a sub-forum for "I wanna do whatever is easiest" type questions..
Click to expand...

Indeed...just another "because I like it & and because I want to" style thinking.

Brakes have been discussed in depth & often on this board. There's a lot of hot air and ego in this thread...

Funny what you said John...what's easiest? I'd argue that my Porsche brakes were an easy conversion. after I had all the puzzle pieces in hand...everything snapped together like Lego's. My Rx7 brakes were really no more or less difficult. Looks like the S60R brake conversion is just as easy. It's all about as easy as changing pads & rotors on your otherwise stock Volvo.

It's funny as some here really care to learn and improve these cars, at any cost. While others can't justify investing in performance, yet are dissatisfied with their car as is. It's some strange "you're wrong because I'm right" mentality
 
Philippe Bellefleur said:
How old are you? early 20's? so you spent what, 5 yrs wrenching? most of that is probably a steep learning curve. I know vince doesn't always get it wright on his first try because i watched him do mistakes but he is very good at pausing and asking questions when it happens. and, as he just showed, he has access to all my library of engineering ****. i think you just can't see beyond the somewhat abrasive persona....
Click to expand...

25, i began tearing things apart at the ripe age of 3 as soon as i could hold a screwdriver, by 12 my father who grew up in his fathers chevrolet dealership driving and racing muscle cars admitted i knew more than he about his own cars, ive been working on cars heavily since 13 and worked as a mechanic for a living starting at 15-21 when i stopped to persue a career in machining. I ahouldnt have had to prove myself but you brought my ability into question. Wait so that photo of books is yours? Or was rather? Interesting


To vincent congrats you can weld some angle iron together and paint a subframe red, would you like another cookie? Im running low... But since my age was brought into question and john bitched at me calling you my elder, how much older than i are you exactly? From your demeaner id guess 13, but you have a way with words unlike any 13 year old ive met and a bit more of a beard than one aswell

I hate i allowed myself to get drug into this cluster****. Im done, no sense in arguing or even defending anyone including myself. Turbobricks has stooped to a new level with your constant belittlement and spouting useless **** no one asked for.
 
@Vincent:

40Idny0.png


You have made your point, Volvo brakes can be good. We all get it.
But some of the less-knowledgable people, like me, actually enjoy reading about the other options available. Even though I'll probably never upgrade beyond what I have, it's still fun to think about.

So like, if you could stop turning every thread into a dick swinging contest, that would make this forum so much nicer for the other readers.

I don't understand why you and your mentor John care so vehemently about other people's cars. So what if they upgrade their brakes when it isn't strictly 'necessary'. Having nice things is cool, and makes people feel good. This is supposed to be fun.

What the hell is wrong with that, they aren't spending your money.
 
Regarding age, age=/=skill. You could be 11, and a better mechanic than 30 year old that hasn't touched a wrench. Experience, expertise, and ingenuity are what measures here. Not age. Not dick length. Not clout, not a bunch people with little man complexes. Vincent, while probably skilled in whatever it is he does, is a prick. Plain and simple. He might have some right answers, and good advice. John V? A prick. Killer expertise, experience, and an ingenious dude. No problems with that. What really should have happened here was:

Vincent:You should probably research a little bit regarding what advantages you get from swapping, in the first place.
Everyone else: Helpful suggestions
Vincent:What did you learn?
Everyone else:Crush it.
ZVOLV:Hook it up to a labscope

Then let the thread drop into oblivion so the person who's reading this on google in three years doesn't waste an entire hour reading the circlejerk this thread is. I'm not helping or offering any suggestions because I don't know anything that hasn't been said or suggested, plus I'm 27, so I really, just barely understand how to open doors inside a dwelling, let alone stop a horseless carriage, right?
 
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