mrak
Beefsma by Design
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Location
- Soldotna, AK
Automatic?
It's a manual.
Thanks for the tips for checking timing. It's nice to learn all the methods.
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Automatic?
It's a manual.
Thanks for the tips for checking timing. It's nice to learn all the methods.
Thanks for those pics. I believe I gleaned that flywheel checking method from you, CFT.
So, being a '93, it is LH2.4, not 3.1, right? (-951 ECU and -016 AMM)
I heard someone from the left coast say he thought there might be a few LH3.1 '93s out there...
It's 2.4 car. The inspection plate is a good idea if not for the 2 feet of snow surrounding the car. I'll save that check for last.
Clear flood. Disable injectors. Brake cleaner. Start?
Given your snowy working conditions, I'd try:
1) Visually check spark during cranking -- see 1st picture in ZVOLV's No Start thread. Make sure it's firing consistently and rapidly (10ish times per second) and not intermittent. If it's intermittent, try replacing the ignition module.
2) Check timing with timing light during cranking -- should be 10deg BTDC
3) Measure voltage on + or blue wire on coil with key on and during cranking -- should be +12volts. If voltage drops out during cranking, the ignition switch is suspect.
4) As a long shot, try rotating the spark plug wires by one tower, crank, rotate another tower, crank, etc. Just give it a brief crank -- if it backfires through the intake, it can cause damage. [This step shouldn't be necessary if the timing belt, disti, and plug wires are known to be properly aligned.]
5) I'm hesitant to suggest pulling the injector rail to verify fueling due to the risk of fire -- do so at your own risk. First, unplug and tape off the +/blue coil wire to prevent any errant spark. I've had good luck using plastic sandwich bags wire tied around the injectors to collect a small amount of gas while cranking.
---Bruce in Oregon via Rock AutoI am reminded of a story from years ago when GM throttle body fuel injection was a new thing on cars. A customer had his two-week-old Cadillac towed into the dealership with a "no-start" problem. For two weeks, every technician at the dealership worked on it trying to start it but to no avail. We checked for spark, compression, timing; pulled codes; set codes; checked fuel pressure; checked to see if the bumpers fell off... Every conceivable thing was done to this vehicle we could think of and still no start. Finally, one of the techs decided to check the fuel spray/pattern from the throttle body. He got a bit of the spray on a piece of paper, tried to light it with a cigarette lighter, and it did not ignite. The tank and fuel system were drained, filled with fresh fuel, and the car fired right up.
After contacting the owner, who then spoke to his younger children, it was discovered that the kids were playing "gas station" with the new Cadillac and garden hose.
Alright so today with SwedishK I finally got out to continue to troubleshoot the car.
No start, not even a stumble.
1. I had SwedishK check spark at the plug while cranking. 1 and 2 were fine. He thought 3 and 4 maybe looked a little weak.
2. Checked w/ timing light during cranking. 10 BTDC dead on, flashing about twice a second. For the sake of my curiosity, I checked all the other plug wires besides one and they all flash at approx the same rate.
3. Measured the voltage on the blue wire. Key on has 12v dead on, while cranking it dropped to 10.5-11 but didn't bounce too much.
*I measured from (one of the blue wires) blue wire on + to ground at the strut tower. Not sure if that is correct or would alter the measurement.
4. I deemed this unnecessary. I've made mistakes before, but the plug wires are in the right order and the dizzy is in about the right area.
5. I pulled the rail and ziplock'd the injectors. With the injectors unplugged, key on, during cranking, and after. No fuel in the bags. Plugged them back in and got several squirts. The fuel looked a little brown in 3 and 4, but the injector outsides may have been dirty? Can old fuel cause a complete nostart no stumble?
The only thing I didn't get to was checking the flywheel/flexplate position. If the timing light is hitting 10 BTDC wouldn't that rule that out? Or is that the next step?
Sounds like all the tests were done correctly, but didn't show any issues.
4. Just to make sure, when at TDC with the disti rotor tip near the scribe mark, did you verify that the #1 cam lobes were both pointing up (look through the oil filler cap)?
5. Timing light showing 10 BTDC means flywheel/flexplate position is good.
Next step would be starting fluid.
So I did clear and try starting fluid. But I was trying to get it through a vacuum port and it probably wasn't atomizing the best. The only other thing I can think to do is pull the intake, open the throttle body and spray in.
Is there anything that would cause a spark plug not to fire in the head, when it is firing grounded against the chassis? Do the plugs (when installed) ground through the block ground?
Also you didn't mention how the squirts of gas looked. They shouldl be a fine atomized squirt of gas. Not a stream or anything like that.
In June I diagnosed a no start with a 70k mile 780. It had disgusting fouled plugs from injectors that squirted fuel but the fuel wasn't atomized. A new set of plugs and replacement injectors cured the car which started right up and drove well.
Might be worthwhile to remove the injectors, feed them some brake cleaner or similar, and power them with a battery. That way you can watch the output instead of having to catch gasoline in bags.I couldn't make a definitive statement in regards to the spray. With the injectors plugged in, the rail was barely above the valve cover and the ziploc bags around the injectors were fairly compressed. Looked more like a squirt than a mist but again, smashed ziploc bag was obfuscating a bit.