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John Lane's Fire Breathing Monster info & pics

oppositelock said:
As a matter of record I think John has used every version of headlight Volvo ever offered for the 240 at some point in the Fire Breathing Monster's life. And it would suck to go back to the flat hood because the current hood has all the cool vents and scoops for the turbo and if he went to a different hood that means I would have to paint more flames. I've already had my fill of right front fenders! :roll:

-Dave Clark

You stand corrected Dave. I have not had the European Flat hood lights in my car, or the European turn lenses which would be smashed into a tree in the first rally I would run them in.
But I did have the European lights (with wipers!!) which I smashed up real nicely at first. At one point I went off the road and one of the Euro lights fell out so that I could run over it. It was returned to me by a concerned sweep crew looking rather flat. :roll: JL.
 
Hey Guys and gals.
Just got back from driving the Volvo with the Powerstroke intercooler, the new front wheel bearings and the DMS rear shocks for the first time.
Oh Dear!! Boost comes up FASTER, smoother, and more predictably.
Perhaps I had a little more pressure drop across the intercooler then I thought? :roll: Hmmmmmmm............ The shocks REALLY control body motions without being harsh. Hmmmmmmm............
JohnLane.
 
"Boost comes up FASTER"

I had the same experience. Imagine that. Naysayers crack me up.
Congrats on the successful test run bro.
 
[quote:b335d770d5]Oh Dear!! Boost comes up FASTER, smoother, and more predictably.[/quote:b335d770d5]

But its still just TOO BIG to be effective!!! Overkill!!! Blah blah blah... :roll:

I'll attribute it to your new wheel bearings... 8)
 
Heh.

Jason goodley has his boost coming up too fast... 16psi by 2500RPM... full 22psi+ at 3200RPM... talk about a hard car to drive if you dont have 100% dry road. He was telling me about one day that he got stuck at work (Volvo of Dallas) with his "race" car and it was absolutely pouring out. His car is setup to boost very quickly and thus he took a 30 minute drive (sanely) in 1.75 hours... its a drivability issue. LOL.

Thats one of the problems when you develop a extremely fast car is its drivability. Its a balancing act. I aint saying it cant be done, but there's always a risk about blowing something out or bending the chassis (LOL) or having or traction or whatever... just set up the car right, to your expectations and it will be fast in the conditions that its designed for.

Tires, gearing, handling, ride, boost control, blah blah blah all have impact on drivability.

Oh yeah, last time I saw him he was moaning about he couldnt drive his car because he blew the axle to pieces... LOL
 
You need to talk more about things you actually know about.
It's 700hp rallycar with a HUGE turbo with JOHN driving it for one thing... and you're going on about driveability? WHat planet are you from again?

Your friend either needs to learn what part throttle is or buy better tires. That sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Or get a larger A/R exhaust housing which if it really were boosting "too fast" would give more top end and cure his "problem". You'd get it if you had driven a turbo car at all. But you don't so really it's a lost argument. If you new anything about turbos, well, lets say its obvious you don't.

Some days I wonder if Steve C was right way back when...
 
You guys crack me up! :lol: :roll: I'm sorry, but not a single one of you would be wanking off about driveability or boost coming up "too fast" if you actually got a ride in the car or a chance to drive it!

"Oh no, the boost comes up too fast, the intercooler is too efficient, it's too powerful. Waaa, waaa, waaa. :cry: :cry: :cry: Oh no, it's too fast, I can't control it, uh oh, I think, (um ,erp), I'm gonna (urp) blaaaaaa! :barf: OK, I have to get in my Geo Metro now and go to yoga class.."

Ha, ha, ha, all in good fun... :D

-Dave Clark
 
Matt, what I'm saying is, you shouldn't use an intercooler to limit how the turbo spools up... That should be up to the boost controller and nothing else... Why didn't that guy just turn the boost down? Thats the idea... You are in control (w/ the boost control)... Not a part of the intake tract...
 
You guys crack me up :lol:
I have only improved something that was damned good to start with.
It seems ironic to me that drivability IMPROVED with the bigger I/C. I had not previously expected such a thing. It is clear that the turbo is not trying near as hard to make boost as it needed to previously. Hmmmmmm..........
Oh.....For those who are not in the know-----Where the boost comes up at is something that we plan for, and drive accordingly. This point where the boost comes up is referred to as the "Boost threshhold." In my car that is at 3000rpm's because that is exactly where I want it so that I am still in the thick of the the graph at the top end. The engine spends the whole time that it is racin' from 4000-6500, thus very little lag. It makes me giggle. :lol:
I really doubt that max power will go up to speak of until I reprogram Electromotive and turn the boost up to 28lbs or so. THAT should be amusing. We shall see if that happens before thunderhill.
The car is almost ready for Doo-Wops. Cool. 8)
JohnLane.
 
HAHAHAAA

Look, I'm telling you what happend with Jason. He has the fucker of a car.

The turbo he has spools up so quickly that he has to practically have slicks to be able to stay on the road. He has haltech, pretty extreme headwork (he's a machinist), huge turbo, webbed block, custom pistons, connrods, reinforced crankshaft, (basically a 4 grand block and head)... blah blah blah...

He knows that this car is not to be driven on anything but a clear day. He made a mistake one day leaving the car at work and working late one day that he had to drive it home when it was pouring. Have you ever driven a RWD car that has the crappiest rain tires you can buy on it? (ie. slicks?) one ounce of moisture under that thing and you spin spin spin.

When it "pours" in texas, it REALLY pours. Not like the drizzle in seattle or the constant drumdum of New York, but SHEETS of Rain, Horizontal Rain, Buckets Rain, you name it. I remember that paticular day that he was doing this because it rained so hard that my yard flooded up, my pool was overflowing and water was creeping up to my back AND front door... pretty amazing considering the house's built on a small hump of a hill...

anyways, he's got a M46 (which is fucking amazing that it isnt dead yet) and he has to granny shift soooo slowly because boost goes up from 1800RPM and up... he recalled how at a stop light it took him 4 redlights to finally get traction to get across the intersection. I am inclined to believe him because I've seen what he's done to his "former" M-rods... (after all he did find the threshold of where the M-rods start compressing and bending to shit... 20PSI...) anyways, He's going 25mph max in OD because any faster and/or lower gear he'd just slip and waste gas. This is paticuarly hard when you're trying to go up "hill" on a high way ramp thats concrete shit... I've driven that way and having nearly zero traction would be SHIT scary.

about "part throttle"... well, thats one of the problems he has with that car... if you do anything more than a feather touch of that gas pedal (custom HUGE throttle bodies) you see 16 psi almost immediately, half way you see full boost... so feathering it is damn hard to do... like coasting man... its not quite an easy thing to stay off boost in that car man.

It IS POSSIBLE to have a turbo spool up too "quickly". To do so at such a low RPM would be great for a 1/4 mile car but all that does in the street would just spin tires. I dont paticularly understand why Jason insists driving that car at all on the street (he never dynoed it but he'd drag pretty damn fast... I forget the numbers but they were impressive 1/8 mile numbers!) Its about throttle position, where the boost spools and how much, ecetera that determines how "drivable" a car is.

Driveability is a damn subjective concept but it is almost essential when you "drive" on the street. You want to be fast but you also want to be in control. Those real "fast" cars out there, such as the corvette, M5, mercedes, etc all are extremely fast but they had done so much R&D to be able to ensure that its fast when its wanted to be fast and otherwise. Thats why you buy a expensive car :lol:

Ideally you wouldnt want a turbo to really starting to spool until 2800RPM or so and to be full boost by 3200RPM or so. That'd be very drivable off boost and on, having that mid-range torque just kick you in the nuts and have some steam left in the turbo to push you around in high RPM. Jason shifts at 4.5-5000RPM (haltech has something of a cutoff... gawd I wish i could afford one of those!) for the paticular reason of his own... that he's timed and dialed it in for that type of driving... thats his thing, low end kick-ass.

Oh yeah I've driven turbo cars. I drove the high pressure C70 thats my work is trying to get rid of for a few days... (71k mi, nearly perfect condition, damn nice car for 13.5 grand or so, quite cheap really.) and thanks to some people and no thanks to you kenny, I now understand alot more about turbos than I do before. I really do appreciate turbos. They are alot more civilized than I thought and/or what other people make of them. I am in love with that awesome turbo wheeze... love that shit. But of all the cars that I've driven (S40 T5's, 780Ti, C70Hpt, V70R, 242Ti's, 740Ti's, Subaru WRX, Jetta TDI, Golf 1.8T... many more, but I havent driven a good manual 242Ti yet... :( I've driven a few yes, but they were so dialed down that they were boring. )

Anyways, After I've driven all of those FAR SUPERIOR cars I drive home in my own car... I still like it. Heh. Quite toruey and drivable. I cant imagine what it'd be like if it was turboed, but I'm not going to put my parts collection to use quite yet, at least, not until I'm done with quite a few other things in my car first... (such as paint, suspension problems, under-dash CRAP, better wheel/tires, etc etc etc)... my main problem is not having time mainly because I want to finish my EE degree within 2 years... heh.
 
John, didnt see your post. I think its fucking cool that you got such great results. You've most definately have a great platform for "giggles" as you put it.

With pushing such big boost it sure does make alot of sense with the PS for you, but I have a question. Are you at all worried when you do the customary front-end collusion in one of your "giggling ralleys" that you'd ruin the IC and/or really tweak the front frame? It looks as though that cut out really just cut out the structural integrity of how the bumper shocks works to absorb force and transfers it behind it... it would make sense that if you did do a superb front end crash you'd bend something pretty good as the dynamics of how the 240 front end absorbs impact has changed... how the force compresses that metal before it impacts the undercarriage evenly... I dont know but to me, for a rally car, such integrity is sorta essential, isnt it? are you planning on building some kind of bracing or something to break the even/broad impact force into the two essential pressure points (about 6 inches behind the bumper shocks)?
 
Sizing an ic based on boost pressure doesn't seem real valid to me.
The point of getting the bigger ic is in part to allow more boost (well, a cooler, denser air charge, a higher boost threshold is a common side effect), saying, "I'll get a bigger ic when i can run 21psi on the volvo" is ass backwards.

PS While there is such a thing is a violent boost curve, saying the ic to blame is again just blatant misinformation. Optimize the system for max breathing, burn efficiency, etc, then deal with boost control as boost control.
 
The Volvo has a rollcage, and the little bit cut outta it just ain't that bigga deal in the grand sceme of things. I still have four or five feet of crush room ahead of me. If I have an oopsie, I will certainly squish the I/C, and that would suck, but the shell is due for replacement anyways. I will reinforce outside of the frame rail on the driver's side, but am really not worried about it.
The intercooler has made for only plusses. More of yous guys should be thinking of doing something like this for your toys.
The DMS shocks are the wayyyyy bitchin' gig too. If we were to do a group buy, we may be able to get a better deal on 'em. Anybody interested?
JL.
 
Volvo78GT said:
HAHAHAAA

Look, I'm telling you what happend with Jason. He has the f?ker of a car.

The turbo he has spools up so quickly that he has to practically have slicks to be able to stay on the road. He has haltech, pretty extreme headwork (he's a machinist), huge turbo, webbed block, custom pistons, connrods, reinforced crankshaft, (basically a 4 grand block and head)... blah blah blah...

He knows that this car is not to be driven on anything but a clear day. He made a mistake one day leaving the car at work and working late one day that he had to drive it home when it was pouring. Have you ever driven a RWD car that has the crappiest rain tires you can buy on it? (ie. slicks?) one ounce of moisture under that thing and you spin spin spin.

When it "pours" in texas, it REALLY pours. Not like the drizzle in seattle or the constant drumdum of New York, but SHEETS of Rain, Horizontal Rain, Buckets Rain, you name it. I remember that paticular day that he was doing this because it rained so hard that my yard flooded up, my pool was overflowing and water was creeping up to my back AND front door... pretty amazing considering the house's built on a small hump of a hill...

anyways, he's got a M46 (which is f?king amazing that it isnt dead yet) and he has to granny shift soooo slowly because boost goes up from 1800RPM and up... he recalled how at a stop light it took him 4 redlights to finally get traction to get across the intersection. I am inclined to believe him because I've seen what he's done to his "former" M-rods... (after all he did find the threshold of where the M-rods start compressing and bending to shit... 20PSI...) anyways, He's going 25mph max in OD because any faster and/or lower gear he'd just slip and waste gas. This is paticuarly hard when you're trying to go up "hill" on a high way ramp thats concrete shit... I've driven that way and having nearly zero traction would be SHIT scary.

about "part throttle"... well, thats one of the problems he has with that car... if you do anything more than a feather touch of that gas pedal (custom HUGE throttle bodies) you see 16 psi almost immediately, half way you see full boost... so feathering it is damn hard to do... like coasting man... its not quite an easy thing to stay off boost in that car man.

It IS POSSIBLE to have a turbo spool up too "quickly". To do so at such a low RPM would be great for a 1/4 mile car but all that does in the street would just spin tires. I dont paticularly understand why Jason insists driving that car at all on the street (he never dynoed it but he'd drag pretty damn fast... I forget the numbers but they were impressive 1/8 mile numbers!) Its about throttle position, where the boost spools and how much, ecetera that determines how "drivable" a car is.

Driveability is a damn subjective concept but it is almost essential when you "drive" on the street. You want to be fast but you also want to be in control. Those real "fast" cars out there, such as the corvette, M5, mercedes, etc all are extremely fast but they had done so much R&D to be able to ensure that its fast when its wanted to be fast and otherwise. Thats why you buy a expensive car :lol:

Ideally you wouldnt want a turbo to really starting to spool until 2800RPM or so and to be full boost by 3200RPM or so. That'd be very drivable off boost and on, having that mid-range torque just kick you in the nuts and have some steam left in the turbo to push you around in high RPM. Jason shifts at 4.5-5000RPM (haltech has something of a cutoff... gawd I wish i could afford one of those!) for the paticular reason of his own... that he's timed and dialed it in for that type of driving... thats his thing, low end kick-ass.

Oh yeah I've driven turbo cars. I drove the high pressure C70 thats my work is trying to get rid of for a few days... (71k mi, nearly perfect condition, damn nice car for 13.5 grand or so, quite cheap really.) and thanks to some people and no thanks to you kenny, I now understand alot more about turbos than I do before. I really do appreciate turbos. They are alot more civilized than I thought and/or what other people make of them. I am in love with that awesome turbo wheeze... love that shit. But of all the cars that I've driven (S40 T5's, 780Ti, C70Hpt, V70R, 242Ti's, 740Ti's, Subaru WRX, Jetta TDI, Golf 1.8T... many more, but I havent driven a good manual 242Ti yet... :( I've driven a few yes, but they were so dialed down that they were boring. )

Anyways, After I've driven all of those FAR SUPERIOR cars I drive home in my own car... I still like it. Heh. Quite toruey and drivable. I cant imagine what it'd be like if it was turboed, but I'm not going to put my parts collection to use quite yet, at least, not until I'm done with quite a few other things in my car first... (such as paint, suspension problems, under-dash CRAP, better wheel/tires, etc etc etc)... my main problem is not having time mainly because I want to finish my EE degree within 2 years... heh.

BORED ?
:eek:
 
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