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Old 06-21-2022, 12:34 PM   #76
Kjets On a Plane
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Last I drove John lanes rally car the mech fan with the old made in Japan Aisin tropical thermostat clutch goodie on the front of it worked just-a-fine? V6 models have a larger fan blade, clutch & shroud opening on the last of the 700 PRV cars that barely clears the hood with a huge 3 row all metal radiator on early V6 cars sold in AZ.

Powerful push fan off the V12 W140 Benzo works good in the Volvo?

Denso 100A seems to have enough grunt push it at idle.
Guys in AZ with the bright sun, 100+ degree temps & 130 + degree air over the scorching black tip report the denso loses charging voltage…the temp sensor reference is internal to the alt after all.

I suspect Volvo installed the Bosch 100A in 7/9 turbo electric primary fan models with lots of engine bay heat soak because they Have a ~13.5 minimum charging voltage cutoff (presumably they assume if using lead acid batteries and the temp sensor reference is indicating beyond ~212*F that the water in your battery’s vaporized/you have bigger problems? ).
On a hot day with the air going full on a 940 turbo the engine really dips/almost stalls even when the cars were new even with the updated last year 1995 ECU to *try* to smooth out fan cut-in on the old redblock tractor running on antequated LH2.4 by then.

I suspect Volvo installed the larger radiator/intercooler & a/c condenser & electric primary fan for idling in traffic with the air going on heat soaked turbo models for sufficient cooling on wagon models for the USA sunbelt as a few well-to-Volvo customers were moving to the dirty south by 1992 (else, why bother?).
They had planned to keep selling redblock 7/9s here up -1998 but they wouldn’t pass OBD2+ emissions without a lot of work.

No real easy way to revise the front sheet metal on the existing 240 model they were about to kill off & no turbo model to heat soak idling as badly anyway, so clutch fan is fine?
Use 1-2 radiators & a/c condenser & piping / layouts for all 92-98 7/9s (turbo, n/a & whiteblock).

Still, I prefer the clutch fan, particularly on 200 series front sheetmetal & turbo models for heat soak reasons or towing under load as well as the dual belts when in good shape (the execution/ quality on those stooopid hooptie bushings & accessory mounts on all redblocks, notwithstanding ). Like Larry David I don’t drive in traffic really ‘I feel like I’m too smart / life’s too short to have gotten get stuck in traffic.’

850s & newer they wised up and there’s a little plastique duct to the airbox inlet/lid like many newer cars have to the alt temp sensor on the rectifier for battery temp reference…
Of course the crimp quality on the battery + cable on those that can fry a bunch of alts is another matter

27 degrees at the vents in low humidity on a 90+ degree day without setting it on recirc is about as cold as possible on the late 240 evap without risking an ice-up…
…amusing to shut the thing off after driving at speed/on the interstate in the CA valley at a gas station & find a lake under it and initially panic
‘O noes!’…’oh it’s just the condensate drain’…derp/‘dumbass’…
27 might be too cold for 90+ degrees & 90+% humidity continuous circles around Biloxi, MS or something (or ~6hrs/300mi 60mph cruise between shutdowns/defacto defrost cycles for fuel fill ups a good 240’s capable of (or 400 mi fill ups if it’s diesel & you drive 55-60mph in the flat unloaded in a car running tip top on vanagon 185R14C pizza cutter tires at 50+ psi w/moon disc/89+ gas saver wheel covers & piss into a jug? )

I saw my fist ‘hot weather’ 1993 240 application only small pulley compressor clutch for idling a/c performance on the donor car in the Phoenix junkyard I raided for the 1993 a/c system for s friend I took pity on that moved to Tucson (well and my own self interest/free wing on the house now that I’m at ripe old snow-bird age & hate the winter gloom here, but can’t afford 2 houses ) with the ‘87 245 owned by the OSU college professor & took to Jack scoville Volvo (still locally family owned/old experience guys that know their stuff there…people keep their old cars longer down valley/less theft/city problems or fevered egos & yuppies down fhere) from new.

PNP buyer wasn’t at the auction that week so I put in a bid for $60 online and won the stupid thing by mistake, but the paint was burned off / wasn’t going to cosmetically clean up to showroom condition, so I wasn’t going to get top dollar for the car.

Everything worked on that car that never does off a generic 240 off the street unless you have an experienced dealer tech & paying customer repairing the cars back to new standards;
seat heaters worked (replaced driver seat bottom cushion & cover back and you could still get that stuff from the dealer ), a/c was low on R12 but worked, all 245 hatch hinge harness accessories worked, odometer /trip odometer and electric speedo worked, heater fan was dead quiet back when it came with an updated motor & new balanced impellers from the dealer & worked, heater valve fine adjustment instead of being on/off or always on worked (new OEM metal valve) , window scrapers worked, stereo with graphic equalizer & tape deck worked with OEM ‘Volvo premium sound’ rear speakers (LOL), accessory gauges worked (tach/clock & oil temp (stereo up top being an ‘87).

Car had a broken steering shaft u-joint with the new Volvo tag on it; chinesium in the blue box. probably scared the OG owner after it was on the dealer receipt after owning it 30 years & he got rid of it even if he maybe didn’t want to/woulda kept it & kept taking it to the dealer if he coulda? Title was dated ‘88…
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:12 PM   #77
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I’m running a 150a GM truck alternator in this here car. Between big stereo, big fan (advantage is I can set it to turn on at whatever coolant temp I want, unlike the 230° or whatever that the later cars were set at, which was a considerable contributing factor to excess wear). I also have headroom in case I want to run electric power steering and water pumps.

Currently my system is only spitting out vent temps ~30° below ambient, which is nowhere near good enough. If the charge is correct I’ll consider swapping in a spare SPAL 1000 CFM fan. Failing that, the tropical doohickey will take the place of the 940 efan.
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:57 PM   #78
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I threw wires at my car last year so the ECU controls all 3 fans, the front two cheapie 10" pushers paired together and the two speed 960 fan. Front pushers turn on with AC, main fan low speed turns on at 180 something coolant temp, all 3 turn on full tilt at 190 ish. 100a rebuilt Denso doesn't exactly charge the battery at idle with all this, but it's not like I'm sitting idle with all the fans and lights going for long enough to kill the battery.

AC blows at a nut freezing 15-20f below ambient. At least it doesn't seem to have leaked any in the last year. Thinking I might try closing the TXV up to like 2 turns out, from the 5-6 it's set to currently.
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Old 06-21-2022, 02:07 PM   #79
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With a 260 width 3-row & Lincoln Mark 8 giant fan you can probably cool it if it's got enough airflow & the rest of the A/C system is up to scratch...if you want an E-fan?

Or just throw the overboosted redblock time bomb in the trash can & get a proper small block ford (or Rover/Buick 215 if you're a masochist and want ultra-compact & ultra-light-weight all-aluminum-alloy and aren't afraid of Brit(ish)...ish as in ****...tho the 5.0L version in the TVR is fairly decent?...they're shy 1 head bolt from the factory & pinned liners/crank girdle to really make them perfect) that fits the 240 engine bay like it belongs there & forego the intercooler part of the equation in the heat exchanger sammich?

Or a B280 cross bolted main lower case + eagle premier 3.0 liners John Lane / 1000hp supercar cylinder head recombine that's period/volvo chassis correct & 'bolt-in?'
Enjoy super hard cylinder liners that don't squirm, crank/rod bearing journals ~1.5x the size of the redblock, perfectly balanced/smooth & quiet in the engine bay that far forward, Timing chain that never seems to wear out with gigantic baffled oil pump in the sump, all alloy/super light weight, no crankcase windage escaping the separator box/no need for a dry sump for track days, room for an electric assist/regenerative breaking giant 10 speed transmission in the stock trans tunnel, room for a giant turbo, much better machining tolerances etc? No easy or cheap way to rebuild it...

Whether or not there's sufficient belt traction to even pull the 150A alt at idle on the redblock tractor I dispute.
Max 240s ever came with is 80A (& those alts are nowhere near capable of that at idle when belt traction is likely to be worst with the alt producing at fully loaded draw & even the best of the OEM alts (Denso 100A) is only capable of ~70A at idle in sub 90F ambient.

I maintain that with the stock crank pulley even on a B230 (~6.5"ø instead of B21/23 ~5.5"ø) that there's only sufficient traction to drive the alt with the heater fan on full, ****ty little stereo these came with, pusher fan & engine cooling fan fully locked up at idle if it's over 100 degrees out even if the accessory bushings & OEM dual belts are all tip-top otherwise magically, somehow-or-other.
The water pump + alt pulley belt wrapped area adds up to the crank pulley belt wrapped area when added together. Why put it all on the ~50% efficient alt for the engine cooling?
70A draw at idle is about all the belt traction there is available, even in perfect shape, even 900rpm B21FT/LH1.0 thru 2.2 950RPM 'A/C on' fast idling speed instead of LH3.1 540rpm fuel sipper idling speed with the dished flywheel of LH2.4 700-720RPM idle regardless of A/C on or not...

You're not wrong that the OEM 230F heat soaking setup is ridiculous.
I just run a SAAB T in the lower hose with a 77-82ºC CI FI SAAB/VW OEM made in W.Germany heavy quality brass Wahler Temp switch if doing the E-fan dance or same screw in switch in the upper radiator end tank as Volvo did for the pusher fan..
...not as sophisticated as a modern controller/probably runs the fan a little excessively, don't care for the mild steel of the SAAB T instead of stainless (but don't live somewhere with salt air or use corrosive coolant), but it works?

Rather replace alts & fan motor brushes a little more often than over-stressed A/C components/ground up A/C compressors that are over-worked...
The push fan is sort of a compromise I live with even though it might not be ideal for cruising economy at speed in the airflow there...
In cold weather you want the full belly pan, snub '83DL (1-year-one model USA only) air dam & blocked off grill for maximum hypermiling penny pinching & engine longevity. The snib 83DL air dam or no air-dam on the '73 skinny commandos is good for ground clearance on logging roads/going camping & urban warfare/bashing people out of the way parking. The snub nose '73 140 with optional bumper over-riders & push bar is a particular long forgotten factory accessory catalog favorite!

The super eco-dork Gen 1 Honda Insight guys run the VW 3-cylinder TDI, no A/C, 1800lb 3wheeled version, no side mirrors & a styrofoam aero plug for the airdam air intake in winter to scrooge squeeze 120mpg out of them reliably grid charging. No expedient 6-speed close ratio trans option for those.
50-70psi o=in the ultra-low-rolling resistance Brigestone RE92 165-65-14 on the ~10lb slotted moon disc style magnesium wheels at 0 toe & camber alignment..

Closing the TXV sounds backwards to me with R134 or duracool; R12 takes the smaller orifice size & requires less space to expand into.
As mentioned, the duracool really needs a larger compressor with comparable sized EVAP & condenser to expand into as R134, despite running at lower pressures/being more efficient than R134 (tho more prone to um finnecky sub optimal operation with large variation in ambient temps / loads for the heat exchanger...narrow efficiency range with that stuff without a variable volume expanding accumulator, smart expansion valve mounted right on a variable rate swash plate 3-phase smooth powered precisely controlled compressor like they use on modern variable refrigerant flow heat pumps). They definitely use hydrocarbon refrigerant in other countries where it's legal...well...and technically here too!.
Just as open-loop/combusting it as you light the outlet of your propane RV fridge/similar!
& presumably you still are sleeping near 100 gallons of the stuff in a big RV or operating a motorvehicle with that much of it on board/hooked up, but we don't talk about that...
~6-12 .oz of it in your auto A/C system is for sure 'ZOMG gonna kill you!!!'...yea that's it...

Someone/some OCD dork get out their HVAC engineer charts & physics & chemistry books & relative heat loss modeling/solar gain of a car cabin for all situations....

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Old 06-21-2022, 02:32 PM   #80
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To your point, I'm running accessories in the 740 configuration to avoid the heat soaking you mentioned. The whole engine bay could do with more ducting/better ventilation. As far as the redblock is concerned, I'll piss with the ?????? I got. It does everything I want it to do other than shake and resonate, and that's at least 50% a transmission "feature". I'm actually considering switching to an electric PS pump off a C30 or a Cherokee. If that's too much for the current alternator setup, I'll first add a second belt, then consider a serpentine conversion. Last ditch would be a modern PWM-controlled alternator with a one-way clutch. If that all fails, I do have a spare BMW engine to throw in. Ironically money is no longer object, but rather enough time to complete things reasonably quickly to attempt breaking the car.

As far as the cooling package is concerned, yes, the stock intercooler location is terrible and I'm presently considering another core in the front-low position. This would also ease packaging within the engine bay considerably. As it sits, it has a stock dual pass condenser, with a KL Racing intercooler, and DO88 radiator. If I were to do it again I would have ditched the 240T oil cooler long ago and gone with a 940 NA-style radiator core and an aftermarket cooler in a less inane location. Painted myself into a corner there and not ready to spend money, locate components, and make hoses with associated bracketry.
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Old 06-21-2022, 02:43 PM   #81
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What's so bad about the stock IC location? It has lots of surface area & can be stacked up in a sammich with the clutch fan to pull air thru it continuous to prevent engine bay heat soak?
Easy to service, not in the way of damage in the front down low, no moving parts? The factory did ok with that no?

I'm not convinced the 7/9 alt location is any better other than the temp sensor reference if the alt has an internal voltage regulator?
All 700 models come standard with power steering & they sold RHD turbo 7/9s, so it makes sense on those grounds recombining the junk drawer as Volvo did on the cheap...
More belt wrap/stronger brackets on the last of the 7/9 turbo models, but I'm not convinced any additional belt traction is available overall to drive the cooling fan & alt than the 240 has, really?
It's a little less 'afterthought' than driving the PS pump off the A/C compressor like the 240 does, eh?
& a little less busy than the 4-groove PRV crank pulley as a hold-over from the V-belt era & GIANT displacement Delco-air A/C compressor those came with some years...

But obviously in '76 when the SOHC 240 came out they mostly sold the cars to cooler climates & wanted to be able to offer them sans PS or A/C at all, so despite needing more alt than a 140 with its single impeller heater fan/single headlights only (B21F 260s had quad headlights starting in '76) & only 6 fuses without A/C except as an add-on and R12 only (don't need as much airflow), no turbos, they gave the 240 SOHC dual belts instead of the single fan belt for both alt & cooling fan/water pump that worked 'fine' on the B18s & B20s...
122s came with a 6-blade fan with optional dealer A/C is the only difference I remember, 140s larger alt and I forget what else was in the dealer install TSB
I never bothered, but did consider A/C for the 145 w/D-jet, power steering & OD trans added later? 2x foot vents, 2 pop out rear windows, 2 vent windows, live in the baker wilderness/where you don't need A/C (yet, climate change/heat dome...who knows now?).

I liked the MR2 electric hydraulic power steering, but it was worth more to a Toyota guy removed surgically with the entire front harness labeled so I had to give it up as a complete MKII MR2 kit as it was a rare option on those (most are manual steer except max factory kool-aid loaded 3S-GTE turbo models usually).?

I'm surprised no one has adapted the Saturn VUE/Chevy Equinox & Saturn ION electric assist quality Japanese/Koyo made column (I think they even used it in the couple odd hybrid Chev suburbans they sold I forget?) in conjunction with a ZF manual sturdy rack (which we got very few of (usually only as dealer replacement in a -'80 car back in the day) with the 2.5 turn guts from sweden to get all the power steering stuff outta the engine bay entirely?

IDK what you do for the brake booster? Hydroboost? For your Coyote crate or ford V10 modular motor installs stuffed into an uncut 240 engine bay?
Electric hermetically sealed A/C (or heat pump/battery pack temp heat exchanger if EV?) compressor sans hooptie shaft seals or hoses to leak out of the largest cabin toyota hybrid/EV to adapt?
Electric assist 14kw motor in the bellhousing/no hooptie belt-drive alt?
*Just* the engine/tidy engine bay/no plumbing or wiring nightmare?

IDK if I wish I had/was living the 'more $ than time' option?
...that might require working on someone else's terms & conditions or for a company or entity I don't feel ethically right about or paying bills/taxes, no? Kinda wanna be done with that for this life?
Or..U know...actually trying at life &/or giving/taking orders or exploiting others / consuming resources? Be nice to experience it to have a reference, even if only fleeting...
& having $ instead of skill/time off/relationships in life isn't really a life? 'There was once a lady that was so poor that all she had was money.'
Definitely a long ways away from the 4 houses & private plane of dead relatives before they pissed it all away to go rags-riches-back to rags (plus bill collectors from expensive habits ) again...

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Old 06-21-2022, 04:27 PM   #82
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Do you really feel that way about Columbia Sportswear? Dang man, your standards are a bit high there, don't ya think?

RE: booster. IDK. Stock is fine until it fails for my garbage.

RE: EPAS: It's expensive and you wind up not having any steering feel. Kind of a non-starter
RE: MR2 pump - those things are mondo expensive and bring nothing to the table that a newer, more widely available unit can.
RE: 740 belt routing: It's less insane than the 240 belt routing and the alternator does not cook directly under a turbo manifold
RE:IC location - if the car is stationary, the thing heat soaks with the vengeance. Also blocks airflow to the radiator by a not-insignificant amount.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:26 PM   #83
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Do you really feel that way about Columbia Sportswear? Dang man, your standards are a bit high there, don't ya think?

RE: booster. IDK. Stock is fine until it fails for my garbage.

RE: EPAS: It's expensive and you wind up not having any steering feel. Kind of a non-starter
RE: MR2 pump - those things are mondo expensive and bring nothing to the table that a newer, more widely available unit can.
RE: 740 belt routing: It's less insane than the 240 belt routing and the alternator does not cook directly under a turbo manifold
RE:IC location - if the car is stationary, the thing heat soaks with the vengeance. Also blocks airflow to the radiator by a not-insignificant amount.
eh, don't feel particularly anything about any corporation or anyone else's choices that much or think Columbia is worse than any of the others & don't make all my clothes in house / wouldn't have a clue how to?
Not much for marketing or multi-national corporations, but whatever, it's inevitable/what's for dinner...
...I don't blame individual people hustling in the rat race/taking what they can get, why should I?

I do prefer the feel of hydraulic directional valve steering, but I wouldn't call EPAS 'numb' exactly?

IDK what's happened with MR2 complete kits prices in the last few years?
I think I sold it all as a known good set complete for $750 to drop in a 40K mile MR2-Turbo that somehow was missing that critical option?
But I've had 3 of them go thru my hands over the years or so? They must be rarer now?
They used to be in the CA junkyards a fair bit on loaded N/A MR2s every 3rd car or so?

I don't sit in traffic if I can help it and only reverse commute & try not to live somewhere where I really *need* A/C in traffic or work anywhere where showing up desheveled & sweaty looking like a criminal/tramp isn't socially acceptable, but I feel for people that do need it or have kids or a dog where it could be life threatening/cook their brains?

But if the fan works right/always spins while the engine is running, it shouldn't heat soak hardly at all, especially if the rad is appropriately sized, no? Instead of the mickey mouse wait until it heat soaks & turn on the sort of marginal electric fan as Volvo did it?

I prefer the dual alt belts...the 700 setup is almost *even more* of a compromise to me with the 1 hooptie belt for the water pump & alt each. But I do like the stronger (1995-only?) 940 alt/A/C bracket with the *slightly fewer* hooptie bushings & stronger stamped steel accessory arms when junkyard recombining for someone with a 7/9 4-banger looking for a drop in no fuss update/upgrade?
Along with the 1995 (only for the 4-banger) better 940 brake booster to make the brakes suck somewhat less on those things...

I don't think the alt being on the exhaust side is *inherently* a problem?
...they had heat shields on 240Turbos & the alt lasts ok if the motor isn't a leaky mess & belly pan is in place & fan clutch is tight/functions as it did when new & always blowing on it if temps climb?

The battery temp sensor reference being taken from there does kind of suck on models with internal voltage regulator...
...the early 240/140-Style external regulators when used heavily at idle are often flickery/under & over charge & reduce battery life.
Lots of OEMs put alts in hotter places than a 240Turbo & have them last 150-200K or so or better? The whole turbo engine bay is hot IDK?
I think more the issue is the alts on 240s live with leaky roached out engines, sitting sideways with shriveled up oil soaked accessory bushings & no belly pan going through puddles/road slop?

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Old 06-21-2022, 06:06 PM   #84
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A roached Mr2 pump goes for $400-500 when other fresher units (Chrysler/Volvo C30) can be had for less money.

As for the fan-on temp, I have it set to switch on at 190 or 200. I think it needs to go down as I do not usually like it getting hotter than 210 or so. I should probably change the switch-off temp so it does not get too cold in the winter.

The intercooler heat soaks when the AC is off. Even then the condenser is pumping interior heat directly into the engine bay, so it's still less than ideal. The theoretical coldest temperature achievable is ambient, and even then it does get warm enough to note a performance penalty on a warm (>90*) day.

As for alt heat, good to know on the bracket. I have a '94 one here. Keeping eyes open for cracked brackets right now. I just like it better. I do think the alternator does better, based solely on casually observing output on both locations and seeing a ~.5v difference on hot days. I forgot to mention I have a lot more access there with the PS pump in that location (small bonus - no bushings). If you are going to argue about boiling fluid, I did add a PS cooler on the return line.

As for "needing" A/C...this is simply an exercise in futility: can I do a 400 whp 240 that is comfortable enough to drive mostly year round and not look like a hot mess after 30 minutes?
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Old 06-21-2022, 06:21 PM   #85
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I'd almost think an FMIC would heat soak even worse down low over the hot pavement without the engine cooling fan pulling air thru it continuous as the Volvo does with the A/C off?
Hotter IC with the A/C going, but whatever, price you pay for comfort & forced induction & the sammich of all 3?
No heat soak with a steeper pitch fan blade & B230FT 700T 'small' water pump pulley & tropical clutch
Blown out heater cores revving it over 6K (even with the brass impeller 'solid' water pump) w/the small pulley, yes, however.
Might be fine with an L or M-cam that's done by 4K in the tractor anyway?
...even the T-cam revs decent with a cleaned up head/max power is rated at 5300 even with the log manifold & garrett T3, much less a ported 90+ and better flowing turbo than the cosworth 60 trim T3 w/.63A/R exhaust housing dinosaur max power happens ~5800/water pressure really climbs over 4500rpm at the back of the engine, even with the larger water pump pulley & B21/23 smaller 5.5" crank pulley, even with the heater valve open/no obvious restriction anywhere...

.5V voltage drop makes sense to me? E-fan car, hot engine bay, temp sensor reference internal to the alt (IDK what idiot dreamed that up or spaced out putting a tube of fresh air to it or moving it to some place similar to the battery for heat (passenger front fender apron like it used to be on external regulator models?). Something got overlooked/lost in translation there I suspect when they just started sourcing internal voltage regulator alts with the temp sensor inside but didn't include an air duct like you see under the hood of 850s/BMWs and other 90s cars/one generation newer in design.
But I don't think the alt being down low/passenger side is a problem in its own right?

Last of the 940s have a little nicer stamped tensioner arms for the A/C compressor and bracket/no fuss.
I forget the VIN # break, but '95 model year, yes?
You're not wrong; I don't want the plumbing mess of the PS pump on the passenger side & don't care about loud stereos in the car or electronics/heavy electrical load for long periods of time while the car's idling?

Was having some problems with the PS pump turning into a bit of an ATF fountain at higher speed auto-x (reaching mid-top of 3rd gear speeds (80mph?, lots of steering) at the end of a hot day...didn't go as far as using a cooler, but did switch to the $$$ silly Amsoil ATF & that seemed to resolve it (ish?...might still be questionably borderline 'too warm,' but nothing seemed to be failing/puking fliud? ) next time (hard to make apples-apples comparison...different course, different day, never put a temp gauge on it?)?
Was using the non-A/C bracket (no bushings FTW on the '85+ 240 non-AC PS bracket, either!) & 91+ style 240 pump on the driver side.

The AE86 GTS models came with a pretty sizable power steering cooler on some models factory for such a small light car, go figure?
I didn't have problems without it (mine didn't come with it), so I do believe it's a concern for certain uses even in a lightweight car with plenty of engine bay airflow/clutch cooling fan also...

Apparently, I got robbed selling the whole MR2 kit known good. Or not...inflation & storage costs/lot rot liability, adjusted! I did OK I think still?
I'm surprised hydraulic power steering exists on any new(er) cars of any kind at all with ever more hybrid & EV models sharing a chassis with a conventional ICE model?
Why bother with a pump, & fluid anymore/potential leaks/warranty claims if/when idiots dead-head it holding it against the fully-opposed steering lock stop when electric racks & columns (& by extension circuit boards & controllers?) have gotten so inexpensive?

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Old 06-26-2022, 11:05 AM   #86
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Has anyone put any effort into fitting a modern variable displacement A/C compressor?
They work great (until they don’t)....
Also.... Systems with more efficient condensers and evaporators.... Why not run it on R-12 that is rather famously most efficient at getting heat out so the system isn’t running its whole life on the ragged edge?
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:43 AM   #87
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Also.... Systems with more efficient condensers and evaporators.... Why not run it on R-12
From what I read online, it stopped being made in 1996 worldwide, so to buy it now you get to pay ultra high ebay prices for 25 year old cans. And with such high costs, I would also be concerned if some of those cans are NOT REALLY genuine R12. With so much counterfeiting going on, could there be counterfeit R12 cans being made and filled with something else? How would you ever know?
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Old 06-26-2022, 12:27 PM   #88
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With so much counterfeiting going on, could there be counterfeit R12 cans being made and filled with something else? How would you ever know?
Taste test.

R12 is illegal for a reason. Even with how infinitesimally small of an impact 1 ac charge worth of r12 would have on the environment, I still wouldn't feel good about it. Plus it's pricey, like you said.

That said, it's probably still being produced somewhere in China.
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Old 07-01-2022, 07:35 AM   #89
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Lots of OEMs put alts in hotter places than a 240Turbo & have them last 150-200K or so or better? The whole turbo engine bay is hot IDK?
VW has alternators with coolant lines on them
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Old 07-01-2022, 09:08 AM   #90
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Lots of OEMs put alts in hotter places than a 240Turbo & have them last 150-200K or so or better? The whole turbo engine bay is hot IDK?
The issue with so much heat is not durability. It's the huge voltage drop with Bosch alts. Up to 2 volts between cold and hot with the worst drop at idle.
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Old 07-02-2022, 07:03 AM   #91
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VW has alternators with coolant lines on them
Germans do all kinds of gimmicky needlessly convoluted crap, especially VAG that might work great in theory or if everyone maintained their cars perfectly & replaced / EU-style recycled them every 10-15 years with absurdly rigorous stringent 6-month to yearly safety/emissions/running inspections & operated the cars exactly per the book on roads maintained to autobahn standards & garaged them…
…meanwhile in the real world with our Swedish tractors that can make it thru 30-40 years of neglect/abuse & be repaired when they break instead of preventatively (not that that’s a bad idea?) / ‘good enough’
Liquid cooling isn’t a bad idea though? Not sure I’d want any of the rest of the eu mandate recycled plastic over complicated German cars?

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The issue with so much heat is not durability. It's the huge voltage drop with Bosch alts. Up to 2 volts between cold and hot with the worst drop at idle.
Dave B
I don’t think that’s the brand of Alt’s fault so much as the temp sensor being internal to the thing and lazy slap dick hack turbobrickers not having all the exhaust heat shields in place &/or using an external regulator temp sensor (not I’m installing any aftermarket ‘adjustable’ voltage regulator crap on my car instead of OEM to fry anything?) &/or using the 850/960 Bosch 120-140A alt (same guts as 92+ 940 turbo except mounting locations & pulley for redblock if you redblock guys need OEM parts, also used on some bmw & VAG eurotrash) style rear alternator casing with the duct for air from the front of the car for the battery temp sensor reference?

Turbo engine bays are hot, but on a healthy 240t with a good flowing turbo & 90+ manifold no cat with all the heat shields & offset to the passenger side & down (unlike the straight e-fan & 700 style fan shroud) turbo/240 style fan shroud, the engine cooling fan is always blowing air over it with the belly pan/rest of the air guides in place.
Further, all of the ^ sorted, i didn’t note the 240 alt being all that much appreciably hotter than the 700 location…whole engine bay is hot battery included after some hot runs with the a/c going even if the pusher fan, mech fan works as it should & radiator & intercooler is reasonably efficient.
What’s the coolest the air blowing over the alt (or rest of the engine bay behind the fan shirt or right behind the headlights while on the highway like where the battery is located with some metal between it and the hot pavement so it isn’t as prone to cook as modern car’s batteries at the rear of the engine bay/evaporate the water in az) continuous could possibly be idling over scorching 120-130F blacktop? 160F? even if the push fan & tropical fan clutch are keeping up with engine cooling demand & a/c is blowing sub 40F and there’s air blowing over the alt/IC/passenger side of the turbo motor continuous?
How long would the battery even last if it were at the back of the engine bay like many newer cars even with more precise charging systems/controls with the water in the battery nearing the 160F of the air blowing over most of the engine bay except where the battery is in the 240?

Give the alt battery temp sensor air the same temp as the battery & it should work just fine?

Or just don’t live somewhere so hot / borderline uninhabitable but this place is already overpopulated & overcrowded & hot sometimes too…
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