960 transmission in a 940

[moetheshmoe]

Since all 740/940/960's all have the same basic chassis(including the post '95 upgrade) I would assume that a 960 transmission would fit in a 940? In fact, I read a while back, that the 960 tranny(A341E (30-40LE) is based on and was designed from the 940 tranny(AW71L). The difference being it has a lockup torque converter and electronic controls instead of hydraulic. Has anyone ever heard of this being done? If it's possible I would think the only change needed would be swapping bell housings. Has anyone ever heard of this being done?

[HiSPL]

It'll fit the car, but it won't fit the motor. Whiteblock trans on a redblock motor don't fit.

If you are whiteblock swapping, then yeah. It would fit any whiteblock.

[moetheshmoe]

If the basic transmission was the same(which it should be to fit the same chassis) then the only difference I can see are the bell housings. Swap those and it should fit?

[hessam69]

I don't think you can

[moetheshmoe]

Any idea why?

[hessam69]

A lot of people think there are many similarities between a 940 and 960, there are not as much as people think.

[Kjets On a Plane]

Nah, that’s a no-go, yo.
A430 family & A42/43/44D family don’t share bellhousing patterns or much else…

A43D (Aisin / Toyota speak for AW71) is a totally different beast from A340/AW4 in the 6cyl jeep & 6cyl Toyota 4Runner, & 6cyl/v8 Toyota/Lexus rwds, various.

N/A Toyota prévia uses the 03-71LE with electronic valve body & capable of towing In lockup +3rd/direct drive, which sure would be nice in the Volvo with auto-tragic…

Sadly, the mechanical version of the 03-71L with lockup & 03-72L used in 16v volvos & some euro turbo redblock cars can only run in lockup in OD @ Very light throttle & kickdown/shift points & torque converter stall speeds kinda suck on USA versions as an emissions compromise.
Better than no lockup at all for a daily driver I guess?

Canada got better shift points & higher stall converters with *some* of the last of their 940Turbos w/AW71L & 4.10 axles; better all around than what we got for a driver for responsive shift points & economy, except for passing USA steady state flat 55mph federal emissions tests/simulations or CA emissions above & beyond federal those years & 4.10s often are a bit too short towing in 3rd, but the OD unit or lockup is not suitable for towing except very very light load in the flat or slight downhill some of the time with that trans…


Recombining the guts to use the previa version looks like a real pain in the Butt as the vol-void tail housing/non-/slip-yoke driveline is seemingly Volvo-application specific, as is the weak mount arrangement, annoying Pan/dipstick arrangement & cooling hard lines that can crack at their bellhousing bracket from The jell-o soft weak volvo engine mounts that don’t dampen 4cyl vibration or limit engine movement all that well without a 3rd engine mount…

…that said, I’ve put a ton of towing miles on the 03-71LE in lockup+3rd with t-static external cooler, tropical fan clutch & all metal 3-row radiator in those vans or serviced a bunch of them with 500,000+ miles…
…no one really bought those new en masse except people ‘in the know’ that know 90s Toyotas designed/produced before the yen crash are mostly awesome & American cars are mostly ****, as you could get a Chrysler for 2/3rds the price new w/something more powerful than an n/a 4cyl. But over time or take care of it the Toyota or 4.0 8.8 rear axle aero stars make it way longer than most cheap/disposable unibody minivans…
…always a laff-riot using used random junkyard Asian car nylon door clips & inserts to deal with the falling off door panels/rattles on your Ford trucks/aerostars better than they were when they were new with their cheap ****ty self-drilling sheetmetal screws, cheap push in ‘xmas tree’ plastic clips installed super halfass on a bean counter budget by idiot Americans ‘proudly built by Americans for Americans’

Not impossible, but doubtful it’d be worth all the time & programming to match it to the Volvo motor (hence Volvo being cheap/doing the chassis specific parts in-house (& those all being inferior to the Toyota in house everything (since Toyota owns Aisin & copied a good design Borg-Warner 03 family auto to make their metric copy & later OD version.)

This all said, if you want a stronger torque converter clutch & to tow in 3rd/direct drive, recombine the ZF-4-22Hp & 24HP junk drawer IMO?…

MUCH stronger larger converter clutch, cooling circuit still operational in lockup (minor quibble as no external cooler not the end of the world as the converter itself when unlocked is the major source of heat…Borg Warner prototypes & units built before 1970 had pumps at both ends to allow for pull starting or no oil starvation if the engine quit & car coasted on a long downhill & had an alloy heat sync fan on the converter itself en lieu of An external cooler or in addition to the eternal cooler on some of the mopar 318 cop cars that used a close cousin to the borg Warner (& Japanese Aisin copy) of said trans family).

The ZF has most of these features & is better for towing.
Electronic versions of the zf for heavy high powered vehicles are rare, however. But the better of even the mechanical ZF autos of that family came in the v12 bmws, v12 jags & the land rovers…

Most of them burned out while being revved in neutral in the volvos & bmws for a ‘fast idle’ emissions test & died a horrible premature death if they didn’t receive the technical service bulletin thrust washer update in the mid 80s cars to address that issue…
Zf comes in the D24Tic cars up to the bitter end of RWD/pre Ford Volvos worth even bothering to own prior to 1998…

They (ZF) came in redblock n/a 700s ~85-‘86ish in the USA market having vultured & recombined those for people that wanted auto but also wanted to tow heavy stuff in 3rd with the redblock or D24T(IC). No particularly great stall speed converters in the redblock app, but most of those cars are long dead/never got the thrust washer update.
The ZF is listed as an option for PRV B280E but I’ve never seen one
Aw-7x is kinda the only factory auto option for those w/OD
Low production volume flagship model; changes tend to be few, low cost & belated on those…

[moetheshmoe]

Very interesting. Thanks. What made me wonder is the fact it would physically fit if the bell housings would swap. I've looked under a 960 and the mounts and lines look pretty much identical. And if the (A341E (30-40LE) was built from the (AW71L) then I would think the output shaft would be the same size and length. But the torque converter being a lock-up, not sure about that? Also I didn't think about merging the tranny controls to the 940 computer, since they are electronic? But, the enticing idea was the fact that these trannys we're built for 200 lbs of torque and horsepower. And didn't have a cheap, delicate overdrive. Too bad.

[Kjets On a Plane]

^no lockup on USA redblock Turbo models.

93+ N/A 940s got the AW-71L, but the stall speed of the converter & shift points totally suck on those.
People install them on B230FT models; iDK how they can tolerate the horrible stall speed & shift points, especially with the 3.73 stock 7/9 turbo USA rear axle ratio? Lockup is worthless below 65-70mph/takes too much throttle to even cruise in lockup below 65-70, fuel economy with the brick shaped car goes down the toilet @70+MPH, regardless…
Might be tolerable with 4.10s like the n/a 940s got.

installed a Canadian 940T AW-71L & 4.10s into a USA 7/9 B230FT & B280 models…nice improvement!
Won’t blow as clean for NOX emissions at 55mph flat steady state cruise with the bathtub combustion chamber redblock at lighter load/higher rpm in lockup+OD gs. the USA version pulling against the slipping converter with the 3.73 rear axle tho…

But, most emissions test facilities don’t test under those conditions, & you’re burning less fuel/polluting less overall really (locally in the Hell.A valley prone to smog inversions with 20
Million lemmings on the highways, maybe not for NOX haze/acid rain risk, strictly speaking according to the federal 55mph steady state test in the flat ?), so who care at this late date?

They came up with & implemented said test ~1975 for fed & CARB…traffic is so unpredictable & bad now idk how it would be all that ‘real world,’ as a common scenario, regardless.
Remember also that the federal speed limit is 55mph from ~1977-1984ish to save fuel in the gas crisis for everyone & cars or that era only really cruised efficiently or passed emissions at said speed…

Previa have similar diameter tires as a 245/vanagon w/03-71LE & got 4.30s & 4.56s to let the 16v timing chain durable 2zz-fe to scream it’s head off pulling all that weight/big egg thru the air.

Aero drag is a little better on face lift 960s with the transverse leaf IRS (tho the Under car drag is still bad on all the volvos until you get to P2+ cars that are barely worth owning of the volvos long term compared to -‘98 volvos) , but body color bumpers, rarer only a few year body/interior parts, dated grandpa styling, too much electrical to break/crap out & limited sales #s new & most of them have already cycled thru the self-serve junkyards moreso than the redblock black bumper more base model 2/7/9s by now, so that’s a bit of a buzz kill even if they’re decent enough cars/drive nice when in good shape…

[moetheshmoe]

My fantasy conversion was to take my US '93 940 Turbo Wagon and replace the 3:73 diff with a 3:31 from a pre-95 960 wagon(which I did). The car lost a little acceleration but at 70 mph cruises at 2500 rpm instead of 3000 rpm. It's a lot less "twitchy" than it was before. The next step would be the tranny swap, so it could handle 200 hp and with the lock up converter lower cruising rpm's even more. The final step would be to swap the turbo with a supercharger from a 4 cylinder Mercedes. The improved low end torque would be close to the 6 cylinder White Block's power curve and driveability. I may still give it a shot.

[Kjets On a Plane]

^iirc the A340 family trans has alternate ratios & fairly loose converter stall in those -‘94 960s.

Having driven the 1994 965 w/3.31s & A340 the trans will drive you batty at times gear hunting & locking & unlocking the converter with the wider ratio set & somewhat wilder cams those got.
Except for no traffic at sea level, the 1995+ cars with closer ratio trans drive a lot more no fuss/nicer without really any notable difference in economy in combined use.

I can’t imagine how awful the 2.3 4-banger would be lugged in a heavy barge of a late 7/9 or that fuel economy would be notably better other than making the thing borderline dangerous to try to maintain following distance or draft the semis (or rather, speeding box trucks since the semis & trucks towing (like the hot shot guys) are regulated to 55 mph in all of Kalifornia/the air nazi state).

With the .69 OD ratio Canadian AW-71L in the 7/9 turbo car & 4.10s, it cruises about the same in OD+lockup as the ~.8 OD manual trans cars w/the 3.54s 7/9 turbo/diesel manual +whatever power loss to drive the pump etc. of the auto trans (not all that much).

[HiSPL]

You would be better off getting a modern gm 6/8/10 speed transmission in there. They make stand alone controllers for the 6 and 8 speeds. I'm sure a 10 speed controller will come along soon enough.

The aw30/40 wasn't that great in the 960. It will be really not great behind a redlock.

[moetheshmoe]

Originally Posted by Kjets On a Plane

^iirc the A340 family trans has alternate ratios & fairly loose converter stall in those -‘94 960s.

Having driven the 1994 965 w/3.31s & A340 the trans will drive you batty at times gear hunting & locking & unlocking the converter with the wider ratio set & somewhat wilder cams those got.
Except for no traffic at sea level, the 1995+ cars with closer ratio trans drive a lot more no fuss/nicer without really any notable difference in economy in combined use.

I can’t imagine how awful the 2.3 4-banger would be lugged in a heavy barge of a late 7/9 or that fuel economy would be notably better other than making the thing borderline dangerous to try to maintain following distance or draft the semis (or rather, speeding box trucks since the semis & trucks towing (like the hot shot guys) are regulated to 55 mph in all of Kalifornia/the air nazi state).

With the .69 OD ratio Canadian AW-71L in the 7/9 turbo car & 4.10s, it cruises about the same in OD+lockup as the ~.8 OD manual trans cars w/the 3.54s 7/9 turbo/diesel manual +whatever power loss to drive the pump etc. of the auto trans (not all that much).

I understand what you're saying. But, consider how different the redblock would be without a turbo and a supercharger instead. Look at what Mercedes was able to do. With an engine that's almost exactly the same in displacement and gearing(tranny and diff) very close to the 960's they we're able to get almost 200 hp and 20 mpg in town and 30 mpg on the highway. In theory I think it can be done.

[Redwood Chair]

Buy a Mercedes then.

[ZVOLV]

Location: California

It won't be smog legal. (Insert crusher pic here)

[Redwood Chair]

Originally Posted by ZVOLV

Location: California

It won't be smog legal. (Insert crusher pic here)

Or buy someone else?s failed project and save yourself the trouble.

[Broke4speed]

As someone who has done the 71L conversion on a redblock turbo engine...you will hate life unless you run the proper rear end. I used a 3.73 and it was constantly going in and out of lock at below highway speeds. A 4.10 is the standard lockup rear, and with good reason. It lugged soooooooooooo bad it was just awful to drive. An automatic 4-cyl at 1700 RPM at cruising speeds is the worst to drive.

[dalek]

How come putting a newer Aisin transmission in a Volvo is impossible and against the laws of god and men, but installing a GM one is a drop-in affair?

Incidentally, I thought the AW71 gear ratios were 2.45, 1.45, 1, .69, 2.21 (TP 30518/10 p. 142). Did I read it wrong and only the AW71L has 0.69?

About the Aisin electronics, there are people who made their extremely sophisticated solenoid control for the A340/AW4 so they could manually shift it.

[HiSPL]

Because old TH350/400 transmissions are a dime a dozen and have been modified every possible way that can be done.

They are dumb transmissions that rely on line pressure to shift, or can be made full manual.

They have an embarrasing amount of hot rod parts and torque converters to make it do anything you want it to do.

Newer 6/8/10 speed transmissions can have stand alone controllers to do all those things listed above, AND still have a huge amount of available OEM torque converters in different stall speeds. And if that doesn't work you can buy custom billet torque converters that do anything you want.



The AW30-40 was a one-model transmission that used a funky old trans controller that doesn't work without the engine ECU. Yes you CAN make it full manual with some tricky electronics if you know how to DIY. The other strike against it is that the torque converter has a ridiculously high stall speed. Like 3500 rpm. This was due to the "winter mode" feature that locked the trans in 3rd gear and used the TC to get the car moving. Might have been great for snowy places, but it doesn't do you any favors behind an asthmatic redblock. This trans will never get happy and cruise in lockup. It will be shifting in and out of lock/4th/3rd gear all the time. I OWNED two of these in a 960. It hunted in that car and will hunt more behind a less torquey motor.


The GM option just has the economy of scale behind it that you can not ignore. Besides, it's not like the Aisin Warner transmission is a Volvo product. It's a Japanese transmission in your Swedish car.

[Broke4speed]

I absolutely HATED the silly high stall in the 30-40 I had behind a B6304S for a while. It was fine for a while but it eventually got really, REALLY irritating.

[moetheshmoe]

Originally Posted by Redwood Chair

Buy a Mercedes then.

Too ugly.

[moetheshmoe]

Originally Posted by Broke4speed

As someone who has done the 71L conversion on a redblock turbo engine...you will hate life unless you run the proper rear end. I used a 3.73 and it was constantly going in and out of lock at below highway speeds. A 4.10 is the standard lockup rear, and with good reason. It lugged soooooooooooo bad it was just awful to drive. An automatic 4-cyl at 1700 RPM at cruising speeds is the worst to drive.

I'll repeat - imagine a redblock with a supercharger. It would be a totally different animal, with enough torque and horsepower to control the transmission. Not the other way around.

[Broke4speed]

At 80kph (I live in Canada), the lockup converter was full lock, which brought the rpms down to below 2000. This was with a 3.73. If you went with a 3.31, you'd have lockup kicking in and out at 60 kph. It doesn't matter what is forcing air into the engine when you're trying to drive a car that's barely above idle RPM at speed. No amount of engine can overcome the transmission when it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. The factory stall speed of the converter is ~2200-ish, so when your engine is below this, all it does is make a lot of noise and goes nowhere.

You're absolutely free to build whatever you want, but it helps to know exactly how something is going to function before slapping it all together and hating it. I'd build it with a shorter rear end first, and then swap in the 3.31 so you can see the difference. If you are fine with it, then stick with it.

[Redwood Chair]

Originally Posted by moetheshmoe

I'll repeat - imagine a redblock with a supercharger. It would be a totally different animal, with enough torque and horsepower to control the transmission. Not the other way around.

That still won?t fix the fact that your final drive ratios are wrong, nor the fact that the input shaft is incompatible.

[2manyturbos]

Originally Posted by moetheshmoe

I'll repeat - imagine a redblock with a supercharger. It would be a totally different animal, with enough torque and horsepower to control the transmission. Not the other way around.

It's obvious you don't understand. How much power do you think it actually takes to keep a Volvo cruising 70 mph on level ground?