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Old 12-08-2020, 11:09 PM   #1
hessam69
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Default 164E B30E not running

Hi,

I have a 1974 164E with B30E engine.

It will start, run for a few seconds then die. If I try to give it throttle, it will sort of rev up a little bit, then start to die, then if I back off it will come alive again, but it stalls as soon as the throttle is released. It seems like there is no response from the opening throttle.

I have no idea where to start looking

Thank you
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Old 12-08-2020, 11:16 PM   #2
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Debugging D-Jet is so much fun.

Rather than typing a bunch, I'll just drop a link: http://www.vclassics.com/archive/efi.htm

And of course, check valve lash and make sure the ignition is working properly before tinkering with the injection system.
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Old 12-09-2020, 12:02 AM   #3
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Definitely check the centrifugal advance mechanism and the vacuum retard system in the distributor.
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Old 12-09-2020, 01:30 AM   #4
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Here’s another guide...

http://volvo1800pictures.com/documen...lt_tracing.pdf

Don’t give up, never give in...
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:53 AM   #5
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Some details can be helpful. Is this car new to you or have you had the car for a while and the problem emerged all of a sudden? Are the basics such as the spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, valve clearance, ignition timing / points all in good order and set correctly?

The fault tracing document linked by C1800 is your best bet. However, I would suggest checking the running fuel pressure. On the later B20F D jets the running fuel pressure was 30 psi. You should check to see whether it is the same for the B30E. The MAP sensor could be failing which is why the engine is not responding to the change in manifold pressure as you open the throttle. The fault tracing document outlines some basic tests for the MAP sensor.
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Old 12-10-2020, 07:40 AM   #6
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I would like to do all the basics on this car first, but I have replaced the spark plugs and had the pressure sensor rebuilt. Back when the engine was running, and before the pressure sensor got rebuilt, it would run great until a certain temperature, and it would stall and not restart until cooled down. I found that the diaphragm inside the sensor had a crack and would not hold pressure. I had the pressure sensor rebuilt by a professional, re-fit it and I can get the engine to start and run for a few seconds but it will then stall and fail to restart easily.
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Old 12-10-2020, 07:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetman View Post
Definitely check the centrifugal advance mechanism and the vacuum retard system in the distributor.
Hi Eric,

Could you help me understand how to do this? I've never worked on an engine like this one before. Mostly redblocks (B230)

Thanks
Hessam
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1800 View Post
Here’s another guide...

http://volvo1800pictures.com/documen...lt_tracing.pdf

Don’t give up, never give in...
That's the one I was trying to find - with the Flintsones Vikings on the cover. If that had been more readily available backintheday, then those crappy DGV carb swap sales would have been cut waaaay down.

Last edited by JohnMc; 12-10-2020 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hessam69 View Post
I would like to do all the basics on this car first, but I have replaced the spark plugs and had the pressure sensor rebuilt. Back when the engine was running, and before the pressure sensor got rebuilt, it would run great until a certain temperature, and it would stall and not restart until cooled down. I found that the diaphragm inside the sensor had a crack and would not hold pressure. I had the pressure sensor rebuilt by a professional, re-fit it and I can get the engine to start and run for a few seconds but it will then stall and fail to restart easily.
Two things:
1) Your earlier issue sort of sounds like an issue with the engine coolant temp sensor. With a failed sensor or failed wiring - it reads as ***very*** cold, and the ECU runs very rich, enough to choke out a warm engine. Get the specs, do a check with a multimeter at the sensor, and then pull the plug at the ECU, look at the documentation, and check it at that end to rule out wiring issues.

2) Sounds like the MAP grenade rebuild didn't go well.
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hessam69 View Post
Hi Eric,

Could you help me understand how to do this? I've never worked on an engine like this one before. Mostly redblocks (B230)

Thanks
Hessam
To test the mechanical advance, remove the distributor cap and you should be able to easily rotate the rotor clockwise and when you release the rotor it should snap back to its original position.

To test the vacuum retard, pull vacuum on the actuator and watch the breaker plate to see if it moves when you apply vacuum.

I am surprised that if all you did was to have the diaphragm replaced in the VPS(vacuum pressure sensor) that there is such a drastic change. Did someone in the past drill a hole in the end of the VPS to attempt an adjustment?

Double check all of the connections and look for frayed or broken wires right at the plastic plugs. FYI, new dust boots are available.

The previous symptom of running good while cold and then dying when warm sounds like the ECT is faulty.
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Old 12-10-2020, 04:10 PM   #11
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Hi Eric.

The rebuilder made a threaded hole in the VPS to allow for adjustment but they set it right where it needs to be (I made small adjustments both ways but there was no change). He also mentioned to check the distributor and also the TPS.

Thanks
Hessam
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Old 12-10-2020, 06:57 PM   #12
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The TPS does two fairly minor things (in terms of how it runs).
- at idle it engages the special 'hand tuned' idle mixture circuit (hand tweedled at the factory so it would pass idle emissions tests of the day)
- as you open the throttle, it adds in extra injector bank fires - same thing the distributor does. Acts as accel enrichment.

Neither is very important to the way it runs. Without the accel enrichment you might get a momentary lean stumble if you slam the throttle open.

The distributor has a pair of contacts that fire off the injector batches (1&4, 2&3). Generally not going to work when cold, not when hot. Might be a non-start issue, or a reason it's running on two cylinders (if one bank isn't getting injector fires).
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:10 PM   #13
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The engine coolant temperature sensor would be a good thing to check and relatively easy to do. That said, you can get a good read on whether the sensor may be the problem or a problem by pulling out some of the sparkplugs. A bad sensor or open circuit to the sensor will result in the engine running with a rich fuel mixture. Since you have recently replaced the spark plugs, removing them and having a look at the color of the insulators should give you a good idea of what the current fuel mixture is like. If your fuel mixture is so rich that it is causing the engine to stall the center insulators should be a sooty black. If they aren't something else is causing your problem.
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
The distributor has a pair of contacts that fire off the injector batches (1&4, 2&3). Generally not going to work when cold, not when hot. Might be a non-start issue, or a reason it's running on two cylinders (if one bank isn't getting injector fires).
As a side note, the two sets of contacts are not associated with the injector 'batches' (1&4 and 2&3 on a 4 cyl engine). As I recall the speed input signal to the D jet is effectively an RS flip flop and the two contacts are the R input and the S inputs. As R and S alternatively open and close they cause the output of the RS flip flop to toggle between high and low. If either contact quits operating the whole thing quits operating because the tach signal gets stuck in one state. I have never looked at the D jet schematics carefully enough to figure why the D jet is set up with this type of tach signal; but, that is the way it is.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:47 PM   #15
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There was a problem with the rebuilt pressure sensor, it has been fixed and now the engine runs well.

However, now it will run fine for five or so minutes, then out of nowhere it will flat out stall. No warning signs, and it will not restart unless the throttle is wide open. It will then only run with the starter engaged and full throttle, but the moment I let go of the starter or release the throttle, it will die again. At this point plumes of black smoke come out of the tailpipe.

The engine will not restart until it has cooled down considerably. I had the technician who rebuilt the pressure sensor examine it, and it tested well (vacuum and electrically)

What would be something that causes this?
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:09 PM   #16
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That sounds like a failing coolant temp sensor. Had the same thing happen last year on an 1800ES.
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:34 PM   #17
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Coolant temp sensor (or wiring)? Cold start valve? Sounds like it's running *really* rich. Use the manual above, and a mulltimeter, and check the sensor. If it checks OK, pull the ECU plug and (consult the wiring diagram) check between the proper terminals there as well.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:25 PM   #18
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I may suggest check the fuel pressure. Just cause it was rebuilt or replaced YOU need to know what it is. All diagnostics start with that.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
Coolant temp sensor (or wiring)? Cold start valve? Sounds like it's running *really* rich. Use the manual above, and a mulltimeter, and check the sensor. If it checks OK, pull the ECU plug and (consult the wiring diagram) check between the proper terminals there as well.


I had corrosion on the connector to the coolant temp sensor from a previous coolant 'spill'.

The car ran rich to the tune of 10mpg but occasionally did better for a couple of days.

Finally the wire shook apart and it quit but I somehow knew where to look and jimmied it back together so it ran.
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Old 03-06-2021, 12:15 AM   #20
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Good advice above. Here is another story to consider:

I haven't fooled with D-jet much, but here is my experience with a 164E: It would start cold fine, and run great until it was fully warmed up, then it would die flooded. I found the cold-start injector was spraying all the time, with no elect signal. Was thinking of replacing it, but it looked brand new, so I looked further. Checking fuel pressure, I discovered that it was very high, and it was overpowering the injector. A new FPR fixed it.
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Old 03-06-2021, 12:51 AM   #21
hessam69
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Thanks to all for the very clear, direct and helpful responses

I now know what to do.
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Old 03-06-2021, 03:33 PM   #22
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Thumbs up Volvo 164 Factory Green manuals scanned to PDF

For all 164 model years here with other content.

http://www.240.se/litteratur/service100.htm

Hope that helps you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hessam69 View Post
Thanks to all for the very clear, direct and helpful responses

I now know what to do.
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