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Old 12-30-2019, 08:10 PM   #26
dl242gt
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Good fix. That solder is getting to be 30 years old or more.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:10 AM   #27
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I wish I had better news for you guys, but all these fixes haven't solved any of my problems. The cluster worked great for a month or so, but now it's back to doing its thing every day.

My first solder job was kinda ugly...


...so i tried to fix it


It's still ugly, but for some reason I still haven't replaced my gun with a normal iron. That would help a lot. I really don't think the solder is my issue though.

Considering how the odometer doesn't do anything for several miles and then works fine without any hiccups until you shut the car off, I'm led to believe that there's a capacitor that's gone bad. It has time to recharge after driving a while but discharges after the car is turned off. I dunno. This has gone over my head at this point.

Does anybody here do a refurbishing service for these clusters? I don't know why, but having a non-functional odometer is kind of a big deal to me. I just lose a lot of satisfaction in maintaining it when I don't know how far it's gone.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:15 AM   #28
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I did have one big win though. Cruise control hasn't worked in this car, but my girlfriend has really wanted it. I fixed that.


I don't know what this bar does, but it was bent far enough over to be touching the speed signal terminals. Cruise works now!
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:06 PM   #29
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Knock-knock! This problem came back almost immediately after I made my last post, but I was over it at that point. There were too many other projects that required my time, and this one was a lower priority.

The symptoms haven't changed. The speedometer always works fine, and the odometer usually works just fine, but sometimes takes a few miles to start turning if the car has been sitting overnight. Oddly it almost always works as soon as I leave from work at the end of the day too. Since it got warmer outside the issue has been happening a lot less often which may be a total coincidence. I'm probably done trying to fix it unless somebody can help me perform some bench tests. I have a function generator at work I can use to simulate speed, multimeters, process meters, soldering irons, and a lot of other nifty tools at my disposal. I just don't exactly know what to do with them!

Is it worth diving deeper to fix it on my own, or should I break out the wallet for a professional rebuild?
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:21 PM   #30
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It may not be cracked solder any longer, but a broken wire in the motor. What can happen, if the motor terminals get heated for even a tad too long, is they will melt the polystyrene of which the motor bobbin is made. Then the pin is loose and can easily break the fine motor winding wire where it attaches.

Hand soldering delicate electronics takes training and developed skills for reliability, according to any manufacturer who hires assemblers.

If you are bent on solving the trouble yourself, you could measure the motor winding for resistance while wiggling it on the board to verify the connections are sound. Check them all the way from the IC to the power delivered to the center tap, that way you won't be influencing an intermittent connection with your direct probe pressure at the motor.

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Old 06-17-2020, 03:42 PM   #31
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It may not be cracked solder any longer, but a broken wire in the motor. What can happen, if the motor terminals get heated for even a tad too long, is they will melt the polystyrene of which the motor bobbin is made. Then the pin is loose and can easily break the fine motor winding wire where it attaches.

Hand soldering delicate electronics takes training and developed skills for reliability, according to any manufacturer who hires assemblers.

If you are bent on solving the trouble yourself, you could measure the motor winding for resistance while wiggling it on the board to verify the connections are sound. Check them all the way from the IC to the power delivered to the center tap, that way you won't be influencing an intermittent connection with your direct probe pressure at the motor.

Oh I'm not bent over it anymore. If it is truly beyond me then I'm okay with sending it to the right guy. I'm just really curious about what it could be. That's interesting, but if it's that delicate I don't want to make it worse!
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Old 06-17-2020, 04:16 PM   #32
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Oh I'm not bent over it anymore. If it is truly beyond me then I'm okay with sending it to the right guy. I'm just really curious about what it could be. That's interesting, but if it's that delicate I don't want to make it worse!
If you send it somewhere, how will you drive the car meanwhile? I'd be happy to try without messing with your wallet, as intermittent troubles are the most challenging and the best learning experiences, but I can't promise professional turnaround time. benstein at cleanflametrap dot com
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:02 PM   #33
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If you send it somewhere, how will you drive the car meanwhile? I'd be happy to try without messing with your wallet, as intermittent troubles are the most challenging and the best learning experiences, but I can't promise professional turnaround time. benstein at cleanflametrap dot com
Haha I appreciate the concern! I'm not sure if I'm ready to go too deep into it at the moment. I have a spare car, that might be up and running as soon as I get it tuned. Maybe then I'll be able to look into this a little further. I guess the point of the update was more or less an attempt to formulate a game plan that I'll execute later.
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Old 11-06-2020, 01:08 PM   #34
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The never ending odometer repair continues. I did try something different this time though. Maybe you'll think I'm crazy, but I think my theory is solid.

Let's recap... It's a pun. You'll see. The odometer worked almost all summer as far as I had noticed. However, it reappeared on the first cold morning drive of fall. Weird. Or is it?! I have already reflowed most of the joints, so I don't think it's an expansion/contraction issue. What components do we all know degrade in the heat but don't show symptoms until it's cold out? Batteries. Which smaller components in a circuit board are nearly the same thing as batteries? Capacitors!

To be honest, I didn't even know if the odometer board had one until I pulled the cluster apart. I just had a strong hunch. Sure enough, there it was. It's even blown out and nasty. The specs are no longer legible, but I was able to find a picture in Dave Barton's gear replacement guide. It's a 47uF 16V just like the others.


Desoldered


New one in place. There's a "+" printed on the board. Don't reverse the polarity!


Soldered


Wiggled the leads until they broke. Snips work too.


My new cap has a higher voltage rating and sits a bit taller, but it still fits with everything back together.


I won't know for sure if this did the trick, but I think it certainly needed to be done anyway. It's pretty cold here today as well, and I managed to get the repair done before it warmed up. The odometer was spinning the moment I started moving! Let's hope it continues to do so through the winter. After that, I'll be able to call this "fixed" once and for all.
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Old 11-06-2020, 02:50 PM   #35
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That's a good find! The caps are a known issue with the clocks. Here's to hoping it behaves itself now.
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Old 11-08-2020, 07:08 PM   #36
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Quote:
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...
Let's recap...
I won't know for sure if this did the trick, but I think it certainly needed to be done anyway. ....
I'll guess if it does "do the trick" the fault you correct will be part of the removal/reinstallation disturbance, not the capacitor replacement. I know for a fact the speedometer and odometer will work without interruption without those two electrolytic caps even present. You could try it. However, in the rare circumstance that one has an intermittent internal short circuit, a cap replacement could be the fix for your symptoms.
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:45 AM   #37
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I'll guess if it does "do the trick" the fault you correct will be part of the removal/reinstallation disturbance, not the capacitor replacement. I know for a fact the speedometer and odometer will work without interruption without those two electrolytic caps even present. You could try it. However, in the rare circumstance that one has an intermittent internal short circuit, a cap replacement could be the fix for your symptoms.
Dang. It was kind of a shot in the dark. I suppose it's still possible, but seems really unlikely given what you just told me. We'll see. It spun all weekend, but we have a cold front coming in tomorrow. If it acts up, I'll semi-expect it to happen on Wednesday.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:25 PM   #38
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I'm in the same boat here. I've replaced gears, cleaned out teeth, blown out what i couldn't find, and reflowed the solder on the motor. My speedometer always works, but my odometer doesnt work until 5-10 miles into 23 mile commute. This must have started recently, because I track my mileage pretty closely, and i would have seen that much. Last time I had the cluster out, I noticed that the motor spindle felt a little sticky. I cleaned it off, it spun freely, and the odometer worked again.. for a day. I'll keep fiddling too.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:57 AM   #39
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I'm in the same boat here. I've replaced gears, cleaned out teeth, blown out what i couldn't find, and reflowed the solder on the motor. My speedometer always works, but my odometer doesnt work until 5-10 miles into 23 mile commute. This must have started recently, because I track my mileage pretty closely, and i would have seen that much. Last time I had the cluster out, I noticed that the motor spindle felt a little sticky. I cleaned it off, it spun freely, and the odometer worked again.. for a day. I'll keep fiddling too.
I hope to hear your fix if you find one. The wagon is my fiance's daily, so I can't watch it close enough to know if it's working correctly. My updates are very far apart because of this.
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:13 PM   #40
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I hope to hear your fix if you find one. The wagon is my fiance's daily, so I can't watch it close enough to know if it's working correctly. My updates are very far apart because of this.
I just hope i can find one to post. I had it our again this morning. Upon disassembly, i think the commutator was stuck this time. I think. I poked with a pick, and only the first poke felt stuck, i was unable to find any notchiness thereafter, or teeth, or leftover shmug making the motor sticky. I blew it out again, very aggressively, this time. I spun the gears with air, exactly the way you're not supposed to with bearings. I also tightened the tangs on the 4 box connectors to ensure good contact and bent the prongs on the triple connector for the same, cleaning that contact with electrical cleaner. Before final assembly, i wiggled each of the numbers with a nylon trim clip without the car moving. Worked perfectly back and forth from work today, but I can't be sure of anything yet. I'll post an update again when I know more.
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:53 AM   #41
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(3) The cracks around the motor solder pins are a little more common than "a few others" because the motor's weight is supported by those pins being soldered, and once you remove the two frame screws, that's all that's keeping it on the board. The solder has become brittle over the years, and if you have any history with all the electronic relays in this car, you know the solder cracks around the heavy parts. And now you're handling it.



This reflow being recommended often divides the failures from successes because care must be taken to keep from loosening the motor pins in the plastic bobbin or damaging the motor winding termination on them. That means reflowing the joint quickly - say one second - with just a touch of new resin flux core solder. These joints are tin/lead solder, not the stuff you can buy today at Walmart.
adding my own experience: re-flowing those two cracked solder pieces fixed the random intermittent odometer issue i was having. did a quick lap around the neighborhood and it worked perfectly the whole time. i'll update again if it fails again.
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:28 AM   #42
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So, all that stuff I did hasn't changed it. Ive been resetting my trip meter to check if I lose mileage on the way to work, and my symptom is always both at the start of a drive, and when the trip is reset, but not every time. I've disassembled again and noticed that if the trip button is pressed very slightly, it may disengage the black drive gear at the very bottom right of the trip from the tenths wheel. I've removed my speedometer faceplate and I'll drive around for a while with it off to see if this is what's going on.
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Old 12-22-2020, 09:01 PM   #43
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Update: I witnessed the odometer not rolling again on my way to get pizza. Two pages and over a year of fiddling with it amounted to very little.

I officially quit. I have no idea what else to check or if there is anything else to check.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:37 PM   #44
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Two pages and over a year of fiddling with it amounted to very little.
don't give up!
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:48 PM   #45
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don't give up!
I'm out of ideas! I've replaced gears, re-flowed the solder joints, and shot a random part cannon at it. If it needs to come out again for some reason I'll re-flow the joints again, but I'm not making another special trip in there unless I learn something new. I think the plastic threads in the housing are getting worn out.
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:18 PM   #46
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Did you read the entire brickboard posts as shown above?
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Old 12-24-2020, 12:39 PM   #47
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Did you read the entire brickboard posts as shown above?
I had to go back a year and see what you were talking about. lol Yeah, I've read it, but after reviewing again it seems like it might be worth trying a different set of gears again. It's just so hard to diagnose given the strange pattern at which it fails. I have these in my stash, so it may be worth a try.
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Old 12-24-2020, 12:47 PM   #48
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you need more solder in those areas. Fill in the small holes completely
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Old 12-24-2020, 01:07 PM   #49
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you need more solder in those areas. Fill in the small holes completely
oh reallyyy I guess I have another holiday project.
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Old 12-24-2020, 09:16 PM   #50
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get some kester kiwi-draw 60/40 solder

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