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Old 12-17-2021, 07:07 PM   #1
Radtap
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Default Winter time AC job

Now that winter has finally hit Arizona it’s time to work on the AC system in the 80 242. It’s the original r12 along with the ol York pump. Want to convert to r13 with goodies, my question is how could I swap the dial knob to a regular on/off AC switch, that’s if it’s going to be worth it? I was reading that the on/off switch and knob use different system to cycle to pump on/off to keep from freezing the evaporator but I really don’t know all that much about AC systems.
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Old 12-17-2021, 09:53 PM   #2
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The anti-freeze function is there for a purpose.

Is there a reason you are considering eliminating it?

That is a tube, not an electrical connection.
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Old 12-17-2021, 10:09 PM   #3
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Not trying to eliminate the anti freeze part, wanted to convert to the newer style AC system while I’m in there redoing everything else
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Old 12-17-2021, 11:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Radtap View Post
Not trying to eliminate the anti freeze part, wanted to convert to the newer style AC system while I’m in there redoing everything else
You'll need the whole 91+ ball of wax including the late accessory bracket and then your PS pump won't mount.

681-4 A/C Changeover (Convert) Car $145.99


Not to mention there's no PnPs in Arizona...
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Old 12-17-2021, 11:41 PM   #5
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Gonna update PS pump regardless, already knew that part going in, my local yard hasn’t received anything since June but if the Phoenix yards get something might just drive up there. We have PullAPart and a few other yards around here, just not many 240s…

Thank you though, I’ll have to look a bit more to figure out if this is worth it over just a regular conversion
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Old 12-20-2021, 06:24 AM   #6
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Is it...uh, working? Or do you just want the later system & cheap/legal refrigerant?

You can swap the entire 1-year-only mess from a 1993 in it/change the brackets on the condenser to fit your early -85 sheetmetal. The later pusher fan can be made to work with the early sheetmetal, or install the appropriate -85 quality pusher fan.

If you can get it recharged with R12 and the rest of it works, maybe you just want the rotary pump that's more energy efficient, quieter and takes up a little less space than the york 4x4 redneck onboard air compressor/piston pump w/sump?

Can't tell you what to do or not do *shrug* The thermal expansion valve system and mechanical alcohol capillary tube rotary switch isn't bad in principle (tho it's made by eaton UK IIRC ) & more energy efficient and space efficient than the GM CCOT system.

The GM CCOT system is often more reliable with its simple accumulator & fixed orifice tube with no moving parts if the hoses and seals are any good and, for 1 year only, it's designed for R134 & its corresponding oil with sufficiently efficient condenser to actually work fairly OK with that less efficient refrigerant than the old freon/R12, which is costly and maybe unethical to use?

The OE 1991+ 240 GM CCOT system, the accumulator is in a really annoying spot in the engine bay if the car is to be turbocharged, and much energy is wasted boiling all that refrigerant exiting the evap to prevent the compressor from ingesting liquid refrigerant, but performance & reliability is nice/'all there'. The suction tube cracks, commonly on those & the OE condenser is a little delicate. But it's all junkyardable/no custom lines required, no special ester oil or risk of R134 oil compatibility in an R12 system (risky) damaging parts.

Volvo offered a pretty comprehensive R134A kit, but it's long since NLA and no cheapskates up here spent the money to have an authorized indy mech or dealer install it properly up in the rainforest.
Still, even so, they didn't sell you a more efficient condenser or pusher fan for the -'85 sheetmetal which is likely to be necessary to have a prayer of it working vaguely well enough with the R134 to be worth all the effort in Tucson pre-monsoon summer solstice temps, which now you can probably obtain from ackits.com or similar purveyor of craptermarket chinesium in *some* usable quality?

Tho Tuscon May-June temps before monsoon *any* poor car a/c system is going to be really struggling. Tropical fan clutch & good pusher fan/strong alternator and good belts are your friend if it's 100+F over the boiling blacktop where the air is probably already 130+ before it even goes thru the a/c condenser, much less radiator all in a system where the engine us supposed to stay ~87ºC or 82ºC on the k-jet cars themostat temp or so give or take a bit, whatever the case. Maybe even the bumper air guide for the airdam if equipped & belly pan, tho I like the better ground clearance without it..
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Old 12-20-2021, 10:47 AM   #7
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The car has non working original r12 system. I haven’t investigated why it doesn’t work but either way I can’t get my hands on r12 and don’t know anyone who can source it to me. The 84 has converted r13 with the pusher fan upfront but was not done by me. All done with proper brackets, 91+ PS pump and all, so I can at least look at know what parts I need for the most part. There is one 90 245 at the yard that should still have it’s AC brackets I may pull next weekend.
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Old 12-20-2021, 11:11 AM   #8
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The aluminum block bracket should be the same 85-93 on 240s.

Back in the day if you had a leaky PS pump and an old york you could buy the new integrated reservoir PS pump (same a later Chevy Tahoe (& others), basically with pressure relief & clocking/bracket orientation & pressed-on v-belt pulley for volvoid application) at very reasonable cost, even from the volvo dealer, so that makes sense.

The R134 changeover kit came with a larger evap (similar to the 91+ cars, but mated up to existing sytle hoses on the expansion valve cars), some ester oil, expansion valve orifice adjusted for R134, and many experienced volvo techs 'in the know' elected to do as you say & buy a brand new uncontaminated 91+ style integrated reservoir PS pump to replace the likely leaky saginaw teardrop oil slinger & 220-240CC compressor. But a more efficient condenser and pusher fan (OE 240 1993 with proper brackets for the '85 sheemetal or aftermarket wouldn't be a bad idea).

If you schlunk the whole 1993 everything in there that's totally doable (it's a ton of stuff tho). Volvo did have a pusher fan for the -'85 front sheetmetal with appropriate brackets if you want factory fit.

Some 1993 240s have a smaller pulley on the A/C pump for 'hot climate' models. E-fan 940s don't have it. It is possible to swap the pulley. Saw my first one of those small pulley OE R134A compressors in the flesh installing the entire 1993 system in a car down there off a donor car in Phoenix. I'd never seen one of those before, dunno how much difference it makes in practical terms, it's possible to swap the pulley/clutch onto any of the 1993-1995 940 compressor, tho it's expensive new all by itself, if you can even get it separately anymore.

I also forget, but if you have the -80 dashboard, I know the spacing between the heater box armiture is different some years for the center vents, no problem if you got an '81+ dash, just remember to grab that little duct piece from the two holes in the armature to the center vents, but IDK if that's a problem making that all fit in the -'80 models...others have done it...I installed the complete 1993 system in an '87 and remembered to grab that piece.

You'll want a 100A denso alt (some report (what I suspect are) temp sensor/charging voltage concerns with the Denso 100A in extreme heat (I've never experienced it, but I also have yet to experience 105+F with a UV index/sun angle over the pavement anything remotely like what you guys get there) or Bosch 100A alt. 1992-1993 240s come with 80A alts to feed the push fan.

Half off day and the whole mess as 'a/c changover kit' is kinda the most economical, but it's a big dig & hard to find it all in perfect shape from one 1993 donor all at once.

Don't mix R134A PAG oil with R12 mineral oil, & R134 doesn't really work well with old R12 hoses either, bad idea.
Either clean parts/1993 system that's run on PAG oil from inception.

Or POE/ester oil and really get it as clean as you can if you're trying to upgrade compressor, condenser & use some/any of the R12 parts (I'd replace the mineral oil soaked non-barrier R12 hoses tho), tho IMO don't halfass it or else you're likely to be in there again & damage possibly expensive components and have marginal cooling all the while, more likely than not.

If the car's to stay N/A it's no biggie to wire it up and get the 1993 entire system in there and working, just tedious and a ton of time.
On the bright side, you can examine the heater core, heater valve, replace/free up & balance the heater fan, check the resistor/replace as needed, check all your vacuum actuators etc!
As well as sort any windshield wiper transmission/cowl drain/rocker drains concerns or pests or black windows etc or inspect for windshield or cowl leaks or cabin water intrusion?

It's pretty well documented, you need the push fan wiring harness harness from the 1993, compressor, all hoses, lines and brackets, entire HVAC box, not sure about the duct to the center vents, passenger side firewall panel, accumulator, block bracket, PS pump with appropriate pressure regulator valve for whichever spec rack (pressure change in 1985 IIRC/watch out for that if it matters?). In the '87 it had spades/bullets to mate up fro the most part...in your '80 with the rotting engine harness and spades for the york compressor you'll need to make a little adapter jumper in a couple spots IIRC.

I couldn't do summers down there pre-monsoon without my brain melting without a full basement, nice pool and way to keep the poisonous critters out of car/garage/living space & driving only early morning or at night. My few remaining brain cells would melt to nothing. Winters sure are nice about now tho!

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Old 12-20-2021, 02:34 PM   #9
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Last winter here was hell, below freezing almost everyday which is horrible for a thin blooded person such as me. I work outside so I’m miserable regardless, just like that AC for that commute to and from work
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Old 12-20-2021, 04:45 PM   #10
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1993 bracket is different
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Old 12-23-2021, 11:44 AM   #11
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With a little welding and a York-Sanden bracket kit one can fairly easily convert a york car to a sanden car and keep the old PS pump and all.
I reccomend skipping the R134 and using Envirosafe.
The last 2 240s I've retrofitted (both 84 models) I did all new hoses, new drier, txv, new sanden style compressors, good pusher wired to run with compressor, envirosafe refrigerant and have had excellent results. Only OG parts I reused were the evaporator and the control knob. Booger freezers the both of them.
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:31 PM   #12
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Yeah I normally put envirosafe in my stuff, just easier to call it r13 conversion. Had great luck but need a top off in my other car. I need to replace the PS pump regardless so wouldn’t hurt for the later square one
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:40 PM   #13
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Regarding the rotary knob vs simple switch. When you turn the knob all the way over to MAX AC it disables the temp probe and just runs the AC constant. In places like Texas (Where I'm at) or Arizona, where you are, it is unlikely that you'll freeze up. First of all, you have no humidity to deal with, and the outside temps are hot enough to keep the coil from freezing.

Stopping the Evap coil from freezing is the whole reason for the temp probe anyway. If it really bothers you maybe you could rig up a triple-nickle circuit to cycle the compressor off every few minutes.

For me, I'm just going to use the late model rocker switch with my 88 AC parts and see if it freezes up or not. If it does, I'll deal with it then. I plan on keeping mine R12 compliant and using Envirosafe. Mine is currently fully charged, but has a clogged orifice tube.
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:42 PM   #14
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What Kyote sez, more or less, for a more in-depth install.

The TXV is more energy efficient & for a turbo application, long game, you're gonna want more space than the 91-93 GM style HVAC system provides & A/C was a kinda half-ass after-thought in the 200 series volvo until 1991.
Some new hoses to replace the old miles of rubber hose draped over the engine bay to leak, a compressor that's mounted securely instead of on hooptie bushings (they FINALLY figured this out on ~1995-only 940s and solid mounted it with reinforced tensioner arm like a Japanese car).

The 77-84 Saginaw pump is actually pretty reliable, and dirt cheap to rebuild/same as a ton of 80s chevys.

Be aware, those hydrocarbon 'R12-replacement' refrigerants such as 'Envirosafe' or 'Duracool' are *technically* flammable.
& if you take it somewhere for a sniff or leak test or top up/evacuation and re-gas, disclose it or there might be a fire or they might turn you away (the sniff machine can spark it) / A/C guys won't like it.
Having said that, you have an old 240 TB bucket, you probably do all your work yourself...
AZ is rather draconian about not wanting you to use them, IDK beyond that in detail.
You decide.

In practice, hydrocarbon refrigerants are legal um...most everywhere BUT the USA or where the Dupont/Dow Chemical lobby doesn't control what's legal and what isn't & hold the national patent & there just isn't *that* much in a car A/C system.
Sure, it's under pressure (same as it is in your BBQ tank at home if ya got one), but in practice, it's doubtful it's gonna be the deciding factor in whether or not you have an engine bay fire in a wreck and certainly in the cabin, bursting the evap isn't that easy/very rare in these cars.

I don't worry about it all that much, having the right air fuel ratio for a lousy 12.OZ of what's essentially isobutane & propane with synthetic oil to ignite is pretty improbable or not likely to make a bigger explosion than the battery or gas tank or hand full of other things under or in the engine bay of the car.

Although, the oil in the R134A is flammable and the Hydro-flouro-carbon is crazy crazy crazy toxic and can kill you if you breathe it/barely get a whiff of it up close. I guess it doesn't outright blow a hole in the Ozone layer like the CFC R12 that's super chemically stable & non flammable & actually efficient & you can buy it cheap enough, but that's about it.

For a greenhouse heat pump with a ground loop assist I designed, the whole heat pump system to keep the hoop-house above freezing was a self-contained unit that used hydrocarbon refrigerant that was hermetically sealed/electric.
I reasoned it was outside the structure (exchanges to water or glycol loop), self contained, and no more dangerous than having a BBQ tank on your back deck &/or weed burner torch aluminum backpack propane tank in your 'non-habitable' tool shed (probably a LOT less dangerous...a lousy 1lb of refrigerant under MUCH less pressure that's only under enough pressure to liquify the isobutane/chemically pure no moisture propane uh...when it's running???).

Granted, propane fires and leaks from big tanks even near forest fires or accidents are also less common than natural gas fires; propane comes out so dang cold/liquifies under not much pressure.

Cheers, be well, don't flame me, I don't have a strong or well informed opinion one way or the other.
On a car where I or the owner won't necessarily be the next one repairing it, I charge it with R134A, which unfortunately necessitates a MUCH more efficient condenser & larger displacement compressor (& probably small pulley on a 240 in your climate for optimal operation as Volvo Spec'd, IDK?) while idling.

If you're OK with some legality or um possibly a fire being traced back to a flammable refrigerant in a wreck or whatever (highly improbable) or safety risk (probably not that much), hydrocarbon refrigerant is way more energy efficient and environmentally friendly/no more harmful than like a single cow fart if it's vented to atmosphere for toxicity or global warming potential.


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Regarding the rotary knob vs simple switch. When you turn the knob all the way over to MAX AC it disables the temp probe and just runs the AC constant. In places like Texas (Where I'm at) or Arizona, where you are, it is unlikely that you'll freeze up. First of all, you have no humidity to deal with, and the outside temps are hot enough to keep the coil from freezing.

Stopping the Evap coil from freezing is the whole reason for the temp probe anyway. If it really bothers you maybe you could rig up a triple-nickle circuit to cycle the compressor off every few minutes.

For me, I'm just going to use the late model rocker switch with my 88 AC parts and see if it freezes up or not. If it does, I'll deal with it then. I plan on keeping mine R12 compliant and using Envirosafe. Mine is currently fully charged, but has a clogged orifice tube.
Turning the knob doesn't 'run the thing constant,' good lord you guys. (I'm not trying to call you names or be condescending, I didn't & still don't know a lot myself, ignorance is no sin)
The alcohol tube t-static knob may be a British-made Eaton POS that's installed super half-ass on these (I'll give ya that!), but it's designed the way it is/there for a reason youse guise...

You don't want the compressor ingesting incompressible liquid refrigerant or evap freezing up growing a mold farm or fatiguing the metal and cracking here people..or expansion valve to freeze up.
Or running the compressor such that it wears prematurely or run the compressor undercharged on a leaky afterthought system like most 240s do 10-20 years after they were made such that it wears out and the wear particles wind up in the TXV & clog it.

The alcohol tube is there for a reason, jesus freaking christ...where do youse guise find or spread this disinformation or observe it?

It does set the 'compressor cut-off' temp very low when turned to the 'red' or 'max' position, but the compressor does cycle when the alcohol tube+ knob is working as designed/to new specs.
& working optimally as it was designed, even set to MAX, you shouldn't be slugging the compressor or running it beyond its duty cycle or having too much temp delta over the exap or exceeding pressure ratings of the components.

The alcohol tube is, however, largely un-insulated between the evap outlet sensor bulb and said knob & often touching/or very nearly touching the hot floorboard/trans tunnel on most 240 installs I've observed (even if some monkey hasn't molested them or had them apart/back together not to factory fit during a heater fan attempt/job etc ) when running in the summer over extremely hot TX or AZ high sunlight intensity pavement or installed pretty half-ass/as an afterthought (as is the whole system) in the average -90 TXV 240 or dealer installed by some poor sod often flat-rater dealer tech on non-GL (& higher trim level) 240 models -85 stateside where A/C was a dealer option on -'85. Not as bad as shoving the k-jet reinforcement boot corrugated tube up the k-jet boot's ass to install the dealer intercooler kit as a flat-rater dealer tech on what's already a used car , at least. Have some compassion for that poor bastid at the dealer in the early 80s!

If it doesn't cycle off on a cold day, especially before you turn the heat on/allow hot coolant into the core next to the A/C Evap for defrost with the A/C, inspect / service the switch or verify the temp sensor bulb is well secured to the evap outlet & adding some foam insulation to that alcohol tube & verify it isn't touching something hot with some air gap to make it work reliably/more optimally & as its designed and improve compressor life with no 'slugging' in extreme heat with a hot floor board or trans tunnel isn't a bad idea at all & costs like $5 or less in some insulation.
Also, verify the refrigerant type, oil quantity & charge level is correct, expansion valve orifice is working/variable & compressor isn't worn out junk (most are).

Yeah, the knob is an eaton British POS / not a nice Japanese denso made control circuit that is likely largely infallible in operation, but oiled up so it isn't overly difficult to turn with good contact wipe and with an insulated capillary tube, it gets the job done effectively & it's there for a reason/part of the design.

You could retrofit the Japanese style 'economy' & 'A/C' style setup with their temp sensors, transistorized control circuit (Like japanese copy of a D-jet computer when they started setting them up that way in the expensive gas econobox era of the late 70s up thru the early 90s), I suppose?

But, with a TXV and without a simple pressure switch & accumulator to boil off all the liquid refrigerant exiting the EVAP & trap any moisture/water on the low side of a GM-style CCOT system, you need *some* sort of temp-based compressor cut-out circuit, usually to avoid slugging it/damage.

They didn't design these cars to slug the compressor from new (tho a lot did and the systems were leaky with miles of lazily draped rubber hoses & cheap nitrile o-rings at connections & compressor was mounted on hooptie bushings super half-ass from new...they sourced kinda cheap parts and connected them together pretty half-ass and half-assed the control circuit from new on the 240 volvo 'dealer install A/C kit' that 86-90 & GLs still got from the factory before it departed the plant (but same parts that look like they were sourced/assembled/installed in some guy's garage like a Heathkit radio/high school shop class) ).

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Old 12-23-2021, 03:02 PM   #15
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(they FINALLY figured this out on ~1995-only 940s and solid mounted it with reinforced tensioner arm like a Japanese car).
this sounds great, does it fit into the 240?
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Old 12-23-2021, 03:33 PM   #16
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this sounds great, does it fit into the 240?
Sure, *suppose* you could. Seen guys hack and molest that junk in there,...
... but then you'd have to run your accessories like a 7/9 with the alt up top/driver's side and sorta molest/remove a lot of originality from the car the car/make the engine bay pretty busy looking/run the remote reservoir medusa of hoses for the power steering as they do on the 7/9s (at least the hoses tuck into/around the front x-member somewhat neatly on those/designed a little better for that)?

I don't really *care* for the 7/9 accessory arrangement, more 'reliable' (no fuss in light DD use, anyway, tho the motors look COOKED in the e-fan cars upon disassembly/postmortem examination en masse) as it mostly is in the 1995 940 setup, except except the alt bushings that are still present in the last of the 7/9s IIRC,

Yeah, 1995 940 setup doesn't have that annoying hooptie bunch of bushings for the A/C comp that still have the V-birds (belts).
Yeah, the 7/9 (B230, accessories on 84 760 B23FT are like a 240 4-cyl) redblock cars PS pump doesn't have bushings either, much like the '85+ non-A/C bracket for the PS pump for 240s.
Fair enough, they figured that out and did a better job with those bits, I give 'em that.

& as the years roll on & as the doodoo geely/ bean counter-corporation sourced absolute cheapest slave-produced thaiwang rubber gets crapped into the Volvo dealership sold blue box parts even (not just craptermarket for cars over ~10 years old federally implied chassis warranties and lemon laws (state & fed) built to stringent high volume and quality control standards for new cars, the rubber bushings kinda aren't your friend/desirable as the cars age.

That said, & I know I'm going to get **** for this on the hack-maim-molester so called 'enthusiast' tweaker board, the 240 design with the dual alt belts & rubber compliance in the system is conceptually good with what they had available for the technology of the time/belt drive systems common to cars of the era.

I also happen to want the 2nd belt around the water pump pulley for more power to drive the engine cooling fan for towing with the larger water pump pulley/fan and water pump spinning slower than it does in the small pulley B230FT cars with less belt tension required overall, compared to the 7/9 setup that way, which is non-negotiable for me.

The mechanical engine cooling fan does draw ~3-4HP with the made-in-japan (now seemingly NLA?...no more Toytas spec it in quality???) T-static tropical clutch mostly locked up climbing hills at 3-6psi of boost constantly over ~2 hours with the roof rack loaded down loaded for bear pulling a trailer with the A/C blasting ice cold working to help build houses 600 miles away for relatives having to cross the cascade mountains in the high desert in the summer heat out of the 245TI. 12-16mpg.

I ran an 82º T-stat, no cat converter & 75º oil cooler t-stat as the k-jets cars don't have to have the the coolant as hot as the LH EFI cars to burn optimally (part of the reason I like them so much for ultimate cold weather running and absolute longevity of the engine, as well as relatively EMP-proof/fewer mouse ticklers/proprietary circuit boards (precision machining of fuel dist & tiny screens tho, yes)/elecrons; good compromise between carb with a heat source & FI in a lot of ways for economy, power (well, there's the flapper plate bad restriction if you don't actuate the metering pin with a finely controlled fast acting ball-screw stepper motor of course...tho no worse than a down-draft crab) emissions & longevity).

Further, though the execution uh...leaves something to be desired (to say the least!) with the bushings & bracket/tensioner arm strength...(accessories don't sit cockeyed or fall off my old 300-6 F250 or Japanese cars )
...the idea/concept with what they had available is right as a good compromise;

-longer water pump bearing lifespan/less vibration
-more consistent belt tension/lifespan in different temps/as the belts wear if you don't periodically adjust or check the tension constantly/regularly to precise specs.
-Longer alt bearing & service life in theory.
-Quieter, I suppose...it's a tractor of a 4-cyl iron tall engine (except the 164/B30 with the 6-hole)...not sure I'd be able to tell the difference most of the time? Much like the OE steel timing gears...I guess they're louder?/have a slight whirr/whine to them over the fiber, but the whole tractor engine & 1960s car is loud, who cares & in the case of the OE steel gears, they don't leave you stranded unexpectedly?
-Still allows use of common garden variety V-belts as were common in the 70s/early 80s when 240s came out or a road-side repair with a 'make your own length' fan belt in the trunk to limp off climbing the grape vine in the summer/similar where many a car would overheat/gasp & die in the summers with a proprietary serp or multi-rib belt that's not repairable in the field or complicated idler-damper a la hiter's revenge/VW uses on the TDIs; if it breaks in the field, you're basically screwed/stranded/can't fix it with a generic roadside clip-together v-belt or collections of bolts/bailing twine grapes of wrath style for bushing shenanigans.

Volvo was trying to get it right with what was commonly around at the time for all markets and uses at cost without getting complaints in warranty?

They sure coulda made the alloy block brackets a lot stronger/with a MUCH better safety factor & captured/encapsulated the rubber bushings in a way that the accessories still were fully constrained & held in position straight/more precisely in the free body diagram with a 'bushing aging simulation test,' but they tried?

You don't want poly bushings there either as sharp edges can more easily slice them and they're bouncy like a bouncy-ball (don't dampen all that well/more like silly putty) even tho they don't permanently deform or shrink as easily...in theory.

What's the answer? IDK/I don't have a single best answer or think I do and am on a budget/trying to keep the car as original/easily repaired by anyone with the factory book as possible more or less?

-Hoard decent used old rubber bushings lightly used/re-clock them and add some material to them after they've shrunk a bit?
-Reinforce the arms for the A/C pump/thru bolt it at the bottom with a spacer.
-Some really thin SS fender washers between alt & bushing to spread the load better?

So far, no fuss/no more drama in fairly heavy (not outright lemons enduro motorsport) use/abuse just doing that?
Quiet belts, good accessory longevity, good belt life, sufficient power to the aligned belts to drive everything, road side repair 'clip together' belt has yet to be used in the 'trunk repair kit.'
Having the motor not leak helps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

Oh, and as to your previous post about different brackets, yes, the stamped steel bracket from compressor to mounting bolt thru the bushing is different on 1993s with the 220cc R134A compressor instead of the ~140 or 160cc R12 rotary compressors, you're right about that & that's important;
Don't forget to grab those with the compressor, tho you can still buy them new if ya hafta from the dealer at reasonable cost too IIRC (famous last words, anymore)?!?

But, the alloy block bracket looks identical/same part # in the fiche for 85-93 240s, unless mine eyes deceive me or you're seeing something I'm not?
I used the compressor and stamped steel brackets &tensioner arms from the 1993 donor/no issues, but alloy block bracket stayed on the '87 I installed the entire 1993 A/C system into.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

Totally aside/to the room in general, the threads/hose ends for the R134A compressor are unique to the R134 cars. I don't really mix & match R12 & R134A parts or oils anymore, so it's not much of an issue, tho it won't quite be factory original to any specific year as you crimp your hoses/deal with your various threaded ended hoses.

Maybe with enough flushing if you use POE oil I'll re-use some R12 parts with 134 (tho I mostly use hydrocarbons on stuff where it's custom anyway)...IDK you're making compromises there.
The old R12 compressors or condensers aren't really up to the task of cooling with R134 & the expansion valve will need to be adjusted for orifice size & variability on the R134...it came in the dealer retrofit kit IDK, but the R12 valve is adjustable?

The old R12 hoses also don't really hold the R134 & its oil effectively at its operating pressures long term, either & should be replaced. R12 oil shouldn't really be mixed with R134, but if you have refrigerant gas only, POE/ester oil is compatible with traces of R12 mineral oil with everything flushed, PAG oil is NOT.

The hooptie accessory bushings, even on a dry non-leaking engine or PS pump can result in premature A/C pump shaft wear and result in the compressor shaft seals leaking that much sooner, even if everything else is tip top.

Its a huge PITA if you want no fuss ice cold A/C without having to babysit it and have it last in these.
But it was an afterthought/designed and installed as a dealer setup right or left hand drive on the cheap in the 200 chassis.

On the R134 if it's over 100 degrees out it also sucks the life out of the poor tractor redblock to keep you cool and from having a heat stroke, but A/C performance that's ice cold is possible on most of the components Volvo supplied if you set them up right & use quality/appropriate refrigeration oil.

My strategy is not to live anywhere where mammals can have brain damage &/or a stroke or drive or be out in peak heat hours, but I realize that's not practical for everyone or always possible.

These cars are largely conceived of for skinny little scanadavian gravel roads as conceived with the 1967 140 & to be American market compatible from there forward in the original clean slate design for the first big 1968 revisions for DOT safety, emissions & lighting laws to appeal to the American market for increased sales volume.

Hot weather brutal traffic American-south wasn't really in the plans...& not that many people with money that were 'Volvo' customers lived there when Volvo conceived of the 140 (& subsequently evolved it into the 240 that was a bit more A/C/powersteering compatible in its design).

It was also less hot then (or fewer extremely hot days where people commuted long distances at peak heat hours in severely conjested traffic, anyway) & A/C was a rare & very expensive option on all but expensive luxury American cars for the most part apart from a Cadillac, Lincoln or Chrysler imperial brands that were exclusively for the American market and emerging car-based sprawling & more suburban with big interstate interchanges (like Dallas, Atlanta, Houston & Phoenix, especially) sun-belt capitol & (thus people/talent to chase it) migration in the late 60s/early 70s....

Last edited by Kjets On a Plane; 12-23-2021 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 12-23-2021, 04:16 PM   #17
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Can confirm that it will freeze the hell up in humid south Texas if ran WFO.

Thanks for the new sig line KJOAP
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Old 12-23-2021, 04:38 PM   #18
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This is probably more than anyone wanted to know about dealer R134 retrofits, various attempts, random history trivia & anecdotes / no one asked for this. Sorry guys if you read all that, and some part #s and tools might be good...there are a couple guys in GA that crimp all their own hoses on the board that are helpful? MikeSr. & uhh...I'm forgetting the guys name, nice heavy-set gentleman I met in passing that describes himself as a 'kept man' and feeds his volvo habit and helps others on the board off & on...
...near hot-lanta would be the other place to make sure the air works well/reliably & legally where a lot of people live in the sun-belt, probably.

Just tried to give people good value and cold air at reasonable cost carefully recombining what Volvo (or other makers in decent proven stringent OE quality) gave us without buying much or any new chinesium (which I'm largely opposed to for moral and perhaps other (possibly irrational) reasons (not racism before anyone tries to tar me with that brush/call the manager/world corporation HR department/committee of denunciation on me , I have nothing against chinese people or any other people consciously or pre-meditatively/predjudice, (I hope)) ).
& some stuff made in China is actually real decent if you choose cautiously/wisely, or low risk enough to try/use once in a while.

& Given these cars weren't born/conceived of with A/C in mind really, were mostly born with R12 in mind/the legal refrigerant of the era that's very efficient but not legal now or probably ethical, the A/C system didn't last that well/leak free no fuss in these.
Small tractor motor too...asking a lot.

It's warmer now, and surviving post-smog/under the CA smog thumb no rust cars also migrated (in part) with people to the south for...various reasons.
Tho few redblock cars were sold to people in the hot climates/south pre 1993, originally/almost all of them in the south came from elsewhere.

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Old 12-23-2021, 04:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by HiSPL View Post
Regarding the rotary knob vs simple switch. When you turn the knob all the way over to MAX AC it disables the temp probe and just runs the AC constant. In places like Texas (Where I'm at) or Arizona, where you are, it is unlikely that you'll freeze up. First of all, you have no humidity to deal with, and the outside temps are hot enough to keep the coil from freezing.

Stopping the Evap coil from freezing is the whole reason for the temp probe anyway. If it really bothers you maybe you could rig up a triple-nickle circuit to cycle the compressor off every few minutes.

For me, I'm just going to use the late model rocker switch with my 88 AC parts and see if it freezes up or not. If it does, I'll deal with it then. I plan on keeping mine R12 compliant and using Envirosafe. Mine is currently fully charged, but has a clogged orifice tube.
It’s not that the knob bothers me, at the end of the day I could care less how my AC is turned on, just thought I’d update it a little bit while I’m in there converting the system. I like the look of the rocker switch but like I said ultimately it doesn’t make a difference to me
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Old 12-24-2021, 10:46 AM   #20
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It’s not that the knob bothers me, at the end of the day I could care less how my AC is turned on, just thought I’d update it a little bit while I’m in there converting the system. I like the look of the rocker switch but like I said ultimately it doesn’t make a difference to me
If you're throwing stock AC out the window and going with something of your own creation, a simple on/off switch will ultimately work just fine and AC will run constantly, but if you find cooling goes away for no apparent reason during drives, you'll likely be experiencing internal evap freeze-ups. If you put a temp probe on your suction line coming out of the evap and see temps below freezing, that should confirm it.

Since I run Duracool, which just plain runs colder than R134a, I was occasionally getting evap temps in the 20's, I added a temp regulating device from Amazon that cuts off my compressor when needed. It was under $20, works well and has been tested on a number of hot summer cross-country trips. I added details for that device in my AC page: https://www.240turbo.com/classicair.html#tempcontroller
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Old 12-24-2021, 11:09 AM   #21
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I actually like that idea, might help the AC stay cold if I just allow it to run and only cycle off when it drops below freezing. Here you either need full AC or full heat if you’re skinny like me, no in between.
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Old 12-24-2021, 03:31 PM   #22
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Dave does that temp controller have a minimum time setting? As in can you make it wait like 2 minutes before re-engaging the compressor? I'd worry that it would be continually cycling on-off too rapidly.
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Old 12-24-2021, 09:49 PM   #23
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^The factory rotary switch already does that, more or less, it just takes a few mins for the alcohol to warm back up again if the tube's at all insulated & routed intelligently & micro-switch works.

Most jap cars have expansion valve A/C & simple reliable denso made temp sensor compressor cutout/in control circuits from the factory if you junkyard dive tho with (sometimes adjustable) cut in and cut out RPMs for the engine in the 'ampifier' circuit they call it in the Toyota books of the late 70s-early 1990s, even, even on the carbed cars with no interface to the engine brain/ECU.

It's mostly just the old porous factory hoses, R12 condenser inefficiency, R12 compressor displacement / being hooped out and ground up from running around on low charge or with contaminants or over-cycled with the un-insulated capillary tube on the compromised control circuit switch, & uninsulated alcohol tube/bad micro switch or lack of lube or proper clean electrical switch contact wipe on the factory switch that's more the issues with 240 R12 TXV system A/C.
I also don't like that the hoses are routed thru the front sheetmetal/that isn't removable without depressurizing the system on the earlier TXV 240s & also like to be able to R&R the engine while leaving the A/C system all in there & charged up. Personal preference pickiness.

& the hooptie accessory mounting brackets, but that's just a SOHC redblock thing, generally, at least until the ~1995 940s, but then you get the 7/9 accessory/belt arrangement which is kinda compromised/inferior in other ways as explained.

Address these shortcomings and leave the stock evap & control switch in good shape & the car will work? Even on the totally legal & straightforward to service in a clean system setup for it, but toxic & inefficient R134A.

People do different things for the pusher fan control; on factory 240TIC it's wired to a factory molded switch in the lower radiator hose on a metal T. I don't care for that cheezoid thing & I'm not driving over mirrors at concours d'elegance in a 240T being judged for 500,000 points of museum piece time capsule originality, either.
You can use a SAAB T which allows various quality (like a nice brass made in W.Germany Wahler that rarely goes bad) & different temps of switches for your needs that came in a ton of 80s/90s SAABs & VWs of various sorts that you can use the screw in or push in switch on the passenger radiator end tank for that matter.
1992-1993 Regina primary e-fan cars use a nice lower temp push in switch if ya got a plastic tanker radiator that takes that style and don't want the splice or whatever of the SAAB T in the lower hose (advantages & disadvantages there too...can be nice that the switch is at the lowest point in case there's a leak, but there's also a somewhat unsightly splice and another leak point, too).
I think the circuit is only powered with the A/C switch turned from the 'off' to 'on' position as the factory did it whether it's a factory TIC 240 late 1984.5-1985 w/pusher fan & brackets for -'85 USA front sheetmetal or a 1991-1993 240 with the GM CCOT system, IIRC.

This worked 'good enough' for me (with a lower temp than factory switch), tho once in a while the fan would run without the compressor clutch powered/engaged, possibly wasting a little energy &/or increasing the electrical system load when it maybe didn't need to on very rare occaisions.

That said, heat soak is so brutal in extreme heat on the 240TIC, even with a 3-row radiator that's tip top, more efficient drop-in intercooler, group-A holes drilled, & Y-type heater control valve bypass for hot high RPM running & quality made in japan tropical fan clutch, it needs all the help it can get, especially with a water-jacket / 'cooled' Turbo putting so much heat into the cooling circuit...

*some* slight wasted electriical energy/gas & alt lifespan compromise, potentially, was no big deal to me...I'd rather live with the costs of that/replace those parts or burn a little more gas or have a little more parasitic drag sometimes than a whipped out overheated engine, whipped out overworked A/C pump or a stroked out covered in sweat me/brain/heart.

On 1991-1993 240 it has a hi-side pressure switch.
That's the right way (easy) way to do it (without computers or more complex methods) as it pertains to A/C, specifically, and there is a threaded pressure relief valve port on the receiver-dryer on the hi-side of the TXV system.
I never bothered with that on the TXV cars; tropical fan clutch & lower temp screw in switch on the copper/brass 3-row or SAAB T in the lower hose (same style threaded / compatible switch) was precise enough.

Some people wire the push fan to run with the compressor (vehicle moving or not or vehicle only moving) as the late 80s/90s Hondas do, more or less.
I don't care for that on turbo models because of the heat soak and complexity of a vehicle speed sensor circuit, potentially, but to each their own?

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Old 12-25-2021, 08:30 AM   #24
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Dave does that temp controller have a minimum time setting? As in can you make it wait like 2 minutes before re-engaging the compressor? I'd worry that it would be continually cycling on-off too rapidly.
It does. In the instructions you can see in the lower left "Compressor Timedelay". I haven't used that feature.
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