EV turbobrick - the turbobrick way?

HiSPL said:

Not to mention burning up your brushed DC motor by using Regen.

Click to expand...

Oh no, you mentioned a brushed DC motor. Prepare for the

culberro said:

Oh no, you mentioned a brushed DC motor. Prepare for the

Click to expand...

For real.

hk 40 said:

That is a question he should know based on his experience. So he should be able to answer it. It make no sense to ask a question like this if you build evs for a living. The controllers are built and the ev's are moving down the track.

And I m here to help swedebrick the OP and have offered him alot if he chooses to use it . Right now I'm having to defend my advice to him which actually has nothing to do with helping him.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the real world vs. your personal podium. If your design is rock solid. defend it without taking offense. That's what it takes to get buy in from someone that is actually going to spend money implementing said design.

hk 40 said:

Experts? Motorola isnt? OK.... But Bob theres no need to try to slam the chip many people are using it in EV already. This thread isnt about that chip but your making that your only argument because of your overcite about it. You know no battery power hand tool runs at 30hp and no rc toy uses sensored bldc controllers but RC CARS. Your still chasing your tail because I started off showing controllers much more advanced than reinharts and his budget wont by them either. Its isnt my fault real ev cost real money! If you have to write and ask somebody about the chip then its safe too say you dont much about it.

If you want to ask them about drives ask them about MGMCOMPPRO or APD.... and when you aske them about any of it they will tell you yes it works....

And why would you ask them about that topology when that isnt the one you were shown by me to drive a high current bridge

See this is really quite silly. What you have just posted about the chip mean nothing. Its a logic based ic you know fast acting . I suppose if you really knew about this there would be no heavy debate. He only needs basic motor control and a good regenerative brake the brushed or brushless dc motor provides. Its a great IC and particularly helpful for people not at inverter design and the complexed programming involved. You should be aware that digital logic circuits are very fast. Logic arrays are what you find in missile control systems and one problem with FOC based controllers is there ability to process fast enough for high pole count motors. High pole counts mean more torque. Fast MCUs mean more money and complex programming. You pay for that.... Since my proposal is fairly antiquated and simple it work within his budget and doesn't not require a fancy controller. It bring the price down considerably. This build wont don a 6000 inverter so why even go there if there even a chance to materialize. Why worry about high efficiency when HE said he doesn't care about 19 points of. And still sub 5s aren't too shabby for the money he will spend. There is nothing any simpler or safer about retrofitting a drive train or electronics from a 4 wheel drive toyota to a volvo. It def isn't cheaper.

Click to expand...

QFT. Emphasis added to show that HK thinks holmes is going to used a brushed motor for regen braking.

2manyturbos said:

He did answer it, you didn't. I think he called you on bull**** and you had no logical response that didn't make you out to be a bull****ter. That's just my take on how your responded and continue to respond.

I'll sum it up for you. In a real world design meeting you would get the living **** slapped out of you and would be shown the door if you behaved like you do here. That's why I have already shown you the door here once. Do you have any clue how to carry on a discussion that actually becomes a learning experience for those involved?

Click to expand...

Wheres his answer? A series wound DC motor and a brushed dc motor do not have the same torque speed relationship. Nothing about either would change how you mitigate the supposed problem.

U say im called out but I disagree because I know the answer and he hasnt given me one yet. If he thinks this is an engineering obstacle that only my suggestions have to deal with thats fine with me.

Im getting ready to go work on my 740 and other projects. Were just wasting time here....you will not build the car with the suggested pieces for his budget and it wont be safer that anything else that people have already done successfully. What this or that person has done or knows wont change this. Your free to waste more of your time talking about that kind of thing. I realize you always want the same few to know it all on this board but they do not.

Im sorry...because this huge problem doesn't explain the sub 10 quarters being run with the motors.....or the easy mechanics you see with your own eyes.


Regards
Hubert

Maybe HK40 is the lead drivetrain engineer at Lordstown Motors?


Could explain a few things! lol

Annnd it looks like HK is nuking all of his posts.

Edit: looks like that was from earlier...?

No but re calling them helps. Why would I remove a post there's nothing here to cause me to do that. Certainly I can hold my own in any discussion here. The problem is I do it too well.

This was posted a month and 8 days ago
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=6182276&postcount=14

But liquid cooling is not how you mitigate regenerative braking ....... so I hope that wasn't the answer. Of course heat sinks and liquid cooling works with all drives as well.... even those with a Motorola brain.


Good Luck
Hubert

Don’t really know that you do it well. Especially when touting on about nine points of efficiency and then throwing air cooled warp 9s in the same post. It’s absolutely beautiful. I can say that you really do have a place that you shine in here. Your deflection skills are absolutely beautiful, something even the best shady used car salesman can’t match.

I’m interested in hearing from everyone. Keep it civil and on track. That’s the only requirement.

cwdodson88 said:

Don?t really know that you do it well. Especially when touting on about nine points of efficiency and then throwing air cooled warp 9s in the same post. It?s absolutely beautiful. I can say that you really do have a place that you shine in here. Your deflection skills are absolutely beautiful, something even the best shady used car salesman can?t match.

Click to expand...

You noticed that too? You didn?t just fall off the turnip truck.

No not really because it was him that doesn't care actually about 19 points and I showed him if def matters but the motor suggested should work for him because it is much cheaper and will get him moving down the road since HE doesn't care. Anyone serious knows your not ever building anything highly efficiency for his budget I just live in the reality of it all.

Post something he can put in his car at his budget that will work and gets him down the road faster. If it isnt going to be efficient it may as well be fast.

Seriously I gotta go. I realize you'll throw ad hominem I cant for the next 6 hours. But you wont show him cheaper thrill. Ima leave to work on my projects giving you plenty of time to do just that. Right now its just circles anybody that can read knows exactly what I said and the context in which it was stated. If you wanna smear statements from one post to another versus what you have to offer within his budget its cool but If he has an iota of sense he knows very well the context since it was posted to him.

I don't have time to waste with ad hominem this was on its way to the bottom before I posted and Im sure thats where it will end.

culberro said:

Where is all that regen energy going to go when the batteries can't take it?

Click to expand...

To the resistor bank. If done the TB way, that means a pile of electric oven burner coils strapped to the roof rack lol.

tintintin said:

To the resistor bank. If done the TB way, that means a pile of electric oven burner coils strapped to the roof rack lol.

Click to expand...

Perfect for warming up your frozen gas station burrito on the way into work.

culberro said:

Perfect for warming up your frozen gas station burrito on the way into work.

Click to expand...

or a heater in the winter for those northern climates

linuxman51 said:

or a heater in the winter for those northern climates

Click to expand...

It's a 240, blown heater core and the hoses are looped






That was a joke btw

culberro said:

It's a 240, blown heater core and the hoses are looped






That was a joke btw

Click to expand...

I just zip tied the hose under the dash mostly closed since the heater won't shut off due to bad heater valve.

hk 40 said:

And why would you ask them about that topology when that isnt the one you were shown by me to drive a high current bridge.

[blah blah blah]

Click to expand...

OK, let's talk topology. Here's your first recommendation:

hk 40 said:

this is a breakout board for the logic IC. Build a bridge with hard switching fet or IGBT (high voltage) and this is the logic that runs it. It times commutation with a hall sensor on the motor shaft. Put the H bridge in a large car audio amplifier chassis and run fan and liquid cooling through the chassis. The inverter is proportionately controlled by drive by wire throttle. Because the fast processing needed for commutation is handled by the logic based ic you can incorporate fairly unsophisticated microcontroller to provide a GUI for controlling the IC's options.

Click to expand...

This is the same exact topology that I referenced. It may look a bit different in the datasheet (page 18) because the datasheet version shows the internal chip circuits while your recommended circuit diagram doesn't. The salient points of this topology are:
- provides open collector drivers for external high-side PNP power darlingtons
- provides push-pull drivers for external low-side MOSFETs
- uses open loop speed control and open loop acceleration/deceleration control
- limited to a maximum motor voltage of ~40volts (due to the open-collector high side drivers).
- using the "brake" pin will reduce the usable motor voltage due to overvoltage from the back EMF.

Continuing on, here's the second topology that you recommended:

hk 40 said:

Building a drive really cant be much simpler than using an IC like this to control a dc or 3 phase bridge.

​

Click to expand...

hk 40 said:

​

Click to expand...

Goodluck buddy because you dont have a single photo of a motor you have wound or an inverter you built and your claim is simply wrong about the ic then and now. No need for me to waste my time if you are an EE you know how ridiculous you sound. You're still here trying to cover YOUR OWN OVERCITE. Looking at an example posted to show you it can drive 'high current fets'. Im not gonna show you a how to build a drive and you're obviously the expert in the room with that statement. I got things to do besides argue or always need to be the turbobrick villige idiot throwing worthless ad hominem. Clearly it will run high current fets those have a package rating of 195 amperes!!! What you said is it wont run drive a high current bridge an only toys and hand tools and that's clearly incorrect at single 195 ampere 70 volt fet. It isn't my fault that you cannot comprehend it doesn't take rocket science to stack fets or chose higher voltage fets but then if you understand ohms law then you know you can reach the target HP numbers through voltage or amperage so from an electrical sense it is a ignorant argument anyway. They have 48 volt systems. ISCAD is one and more advanced that anything you've been shown in these threads. Anyone can look up a IRFP4368 and know its a 195 ampere fet and could handle more if I keep the package cool the silicon junction is 390 plus amperes. For one fet thats high current but I see you know.... Since youd dig deep you already seen a video of it running with these fets. I hope eventually you can accept that you're obviously no expert here in this world. To question the age of a chip show even more brilliance if you just asked yourself how old a 555 timer is and how widely its still used in modern electronics. Its about the silliest post a person can make about an IC. Its about functionality not age. If it works and it works well people will use an IC as long as they make it and of course they still are but the Eureka moment still hasn't arrived in the brightest minds here. All this just to be right and you still wrong sitting there mad about it. I cant waste my time with your misplaced belligerence over an IC because your wrong about it.. what hand tool or hand vac pulls 195 amperes at 70 volts? Thats just at a glance ignorance. If you've any experience building a drive you wouldn't be here arguing. Its truly silly...the overcite. You have a problem with high current inverter design I do not so don't pose me with your problems that aren't really problems for people who do it. This is why a 448 gram @ 20 hp sporting over 95% sits in the palm of my hands and you've never gotten your fet wet in inverter or electric motor design but have all the answers that's why you suggest a HACK and probably why my old thread still holds double the view count here and no one that posted a actual car there is speaking here. The only one really keeping that going is every reply of mine you learn from. The chip is for motor control of not specific devices and meets automotive protocol as it states. you do not know what you are talking about and that's final! If you don't know how to achieve the goal that's your problem!! You definitely wont be shown by me harassing me wit ad hominem and that's for sure!!! I was never talking to you anyway my suggestion were for the op whose has the knowledge resources to make it happen if he chooses you here arguing that he chooses your ideas over mine and that's immaterial to me I care less what route he takes. I don't quest at all cost to be TB's village guru on every topic...I do not need that affirmation. But you do not know anything about inverter design and the continued pining of this simple **** proves it. Your wrong and that's it.