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Old 06-09-2021, 09:30 PM   #76
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BE CAREFUL with high voltage!!! Use high voltage gloves and a proper meter to confirm that the circuit is disabled before working on it.

I work on modern systems with many safety systems to prevent accidental electrocution. A homebrew EV sounds like a very fun idea, but keep safety in mind. Some shops have a 10 foot fiberglass hook hanging on the wall to pull somebody off.

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Old 06-10-2021, 11:00 AM   #77
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Thanks for adding that.
I go to auto tech instructor training in the summer, usually at CCBC Catonsville, sometimes at local dealer training centers. One was Chrysler, where we had new model training on Fiat 500e. Often it is at Central Atlantic Toyota in Glen Burnie, and they also have spring meets with dept of education. One was high voltage training. Way more thorough than the usual. We all did the hook drill, and had to disable, then enable a high voltage system. Toyota classes are the best. The first one I took was on Camry 5 speed transaxles when I was a tech in 1984. Better than any other manufacturer, but Ford EEC was a close second. John Tutz was something else.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Voltage-...Voltage+Gloves
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:06 PM   #78
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Meh, don’t be dumbass... don’t lick fingers and touch shiny things. If you do have to, touch only one at a time. My test station ran off a 388v pack of lipo for years, and I’ve connected and disconnected it many times along with dismantling banks of cells to pull/replace them. You really just need to not position yourself as a through component.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:34 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
Meh, don’t be dumbass... don’t lick fingers and touch shiny things. If you do have to, touch only one at a time. My test station ran off a 388v pack of lipo for years, and I’ve connected and disconnected it many times along with dismantling banks of cells to pull/replace them. You really just need to not position yourself as a through component.
"Rebuilt" a Prius Pack once.
Was pretty sketchy feeling until the bus bars were off!
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:28 PM   #80
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Meh, don’t be dumbass... don’t lick fingers and touch shiny things. If you do have to, touch only one at a time. My test station ran off a 388v pack of lipo for years, and I’ve connected and disconnected it many times along with dismantling banks of cells to pull/replace them. You really just need to not position yourself as a through component.
next thing you will say I cannot bathe myself in salt water before working on those batteries.
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:57 PM   #81
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next thing you will say I cannot bathe myself in salt water before working on those batteries.
Might be worth a try. Do it for science, then report back your findings.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:17 PM   #82
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BE CAREFUL with high voltage!!! Use high voltage gloves and a proper meter to confirm that the circuit is disabled before working on it. S

I work on modern systems with many safety systems to prevent accidental electrocution. A homebrew EV sounds like a very fun idea, but keep safety in mind. Some ships have a 10 foot fiberglass hook hanging on the wall to pull somebody off.

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Hi ZVOLV,
You've be added to my contact list but Im very tired and bored with this topic. Im waiting for the "turbobricks way" build to begin. Its finally at high voltage now it started at 48V. Anyone currently working with this type of thing in real industry is currently high voltage cabinet trained and certified. They have a bag with a hard hat cotton and rubber gloves a full cotton calorie suit an face shield and balaclava. Mine sits under my desk. Anyone at this has also been trained how to store and test this PPE for its insulation integrity. I love reading here u learn so much about professional integrity but thats another topic...... It's no surprise that the right language is understood and rings bells in California.


If they wanted a low voltage high current system and are so smart with programming and hardware why not build ISCAD?https://assets.vector.com/cms/conten...er_Gerling.pdf
The turbobrick way is not ready to EV-OLVE

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assuming we have an electrical circuit containing a power source and a solenoid of inductance L , we can write the equation of magnetic energy, E , stored in the inductor as: E = 1/2 * L * I² , where I is the current flowing through the wire

I have an ecu which has 8 channels of full sequential fuel and ignition control .

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Old 06-10-2021, 08:47 PM   #83
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Is the Lexus GS450H gearbox part # 263241762 ? If so, those seem pretty $$$ reasonable on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/b/Complete-Auto...15/bn_20971871

Wonder how big it is compared to the normal 240 transmission swaps, and if a redblock adapter plate/housing is feasible?

edit: ^^^ 263241762 looks like a LKQ part #. I did find some better summary info on the GS450H here: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threa...-motor.202397/

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Old 06-10-2021, 09:15 PM   #84
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What a read...

"His continued progress on the GS450h transmission has intrigued me with its nearly 250hp potential once the input shaft is locked and the controller is sufficiently tricked into running the MG1 and MG2 motors simultaneously."


https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threa.../#post-1053713

Why not use a cd transmission that you know handle 1000hp and build ONE bldc wound for the appropriate electrical gearing to utilize the same rpm as the IC motor it replaces? The inverter is logic based IC no programmers needed just a hardware guy...
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:38 PM   #85
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this is a breakout board for the logic IC. Build a bridge with hard switching fet or IGBT (high voltage) and this is the logic that runs it. It times commutation with a hall sensor on the motor shaft. Put the H bridge in a large car audio amplifier chassis and run fan and liquid cooling through the chassis. The inverter is proportionately controlled by drive by wire throttle. Because the fast processing needed for commutation is handled by the logic based ic you can incorporate fairly unsophisticated microcontroller to provide a GUI for controlling the IC's options.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:21 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
What a read...

"His continued progress on the GS450h transmission has intrigued me with its nearly 250hp potential once the input shaft is locked and the controller is sufficiently tricked into running the MG1 and MG2 motors simultaneously."


https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threa.../#post-1053713

Why not use a cd transmission that you know handle 1000hp and build ONE bldc wound for the appropriate electrical gearing to utilize the same rpm as the IC motor it replaces? The inverter is logic based IC no programmers needed just a hardware guy...
What he described is what toyota does in all-electric high speed forward anyway.
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:57 AM   #87
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At work 50 volts @ 5 milliamps or 10 Joules is the "safe" limit without additional and specific PPE. Anyway, a little more on the Volvo EV swap concerning safety.

I could have sworn the earlier Prius and other Hybrids had decals and warnings for the potential risks for emergency personal if your car was in an accident. I see no warnings at all on my Model Y.
Do they assume everyone knows it is an electric car? What about conversions? Besides using the bright orange cables for the 3 phase and other power cables should one put warning labels on their EV converted gas vehicle?

Anyone see the Model S Plaid unveiling last night? That new motor is impressive, so tiny yet so powerful. Cannot wait to see conversions using those setups from wrecked Plaid models.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:21 AM   #88
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At work 50 volts @ 5 milliamps or 10 Joules is the "safe" limit without additional and specific PPE. Anyway, a little more on the Volvo EV swap concerning safety.

I could have sworn the earlier Prius and other Hybrids had decals and warnings for the potential risks for emergency personal if your car was in an accident. I see no warnings at all on my Model Y.
Do they assume everyone knows it is an electric car? What about conversions? Besides using the bright orange cables for the 3 phase and other power cables should one put warning labels on their EV converted gas vehicle?
Most hybrids I've seen have those warnings plastered all over the place under the hood. Maybe Tesla hasn't been sued enough yet to start putting warning labels on things?
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:38 AM   #89
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I burned a hole in the end of my sweaty thumb with 12v trying to reconnect the solenoid wire on my 242. We routinely work with 400amp 460vac equipment with the appropriate PPE hK is talking about, it’s definitely nothing to be fooled with if you don’t know what you’re doing.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:51 AM   #90
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In this case the inverters are dc to ac. Obviously they don't run off line power in an EV. A knife switch of safety disconnect from the battery thats lockable with a service key goes to the technician working on the device. He keeps this key at all cost and it cannot be cut without a chain of command sign off. If you remember to disconnect the inverter from the battery and short the caps you should be fairy safe. Use insulated sockets to fasten the batteries bus bar array. Good LiFe EV batteries will carry more current than your typical lead acid batteries. Of course all the output phases would be fused. The fuses should be covered with thick lexan plate if possible. A coworker once told the HVAC guys on the roof to start a huge air mass unit motor while he was standing directly in front on the 600 amp breaker. When the outside contractors put the new drive in they shorted one of the phase wire under a mounting screw on the drive. When they put fire in the hole he was knocked the the ground from the circuit breakers report! He got lucky to only felt the percussive blast. No voltage grabbed him. It sounded like a cherry bomb went of inside paint. Of course you are not supposed to stand in direct line of fire of a high voltage cabinet when you reengage the knife switch. Some factories require full PPE just to pull a knife switch on or off. Amazon is one to name a few despite all the other safety they neglect... what a hustle on the consumer and phone world. If the walls ever talk that monopoly will end.....

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Old 06-11-2021, 10:27 PM   #91
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What is a preferred method of control for something like this? something Arduino based with your own programming? Are they any decent purpose built controllers for this type of application?
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:39 AM   #92
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I was curious about the Lexus GS450H possibilities so I did a little more surfing. My rough understanding is as follows.

The Lexus ~2006-2011 GS450H is RWD hybrid luxury sedan and uses a 6-cyl 3.5L ~230 HP gas engine, mated to what looks like a normal CVT automatic transmission, to a 3.7ish rear axle. Inside the transmission are actually 2 electric motors and a couple planetary gear sets which boost the performance to the ~340HP level. The electric motors are driven by a separate "Inverter" or motor controller box (with water cooling ports). In the original setup, the gas engine ECU talks to the Inverter over CANbus-like connections.

If you surf around a bit, you'll find the name Damien Maguire keeps popping up. As far as I can tell, he's a brilliant and prolific hobbyist who's glad to share everything he's doing. He's done numerous electric-only conversions, including locking the input shaft of the GS450H transmission and using it for full electric in a big BMW. Here's one of his shorter videos (there are many hours of more detailed videos too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5XM6blwMlw

He reverse engineered the factory ECU to Inverter interface and designed a ECU replacement board, a "VCU" or Vehicle Control Unit, plus his own custom software to talk to the Inverter directly. The board is available in partially assembled form on ebay, and the software is open source.

From the video, the GS450H transmission looks fairly big so it may not fit in a brick along with a gas engine (hybrid) but should have plenty of room without the gas engine (full electric).

The wiki shown in one of his other videos is: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Lexus_GS450h_Inverter
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:33 AM   #93
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What is a preferred method of control for something like this? something Arduino based with your own programming? Are they any decent purpose built controllers for this type of application?

I depends on the motor you are running which commutation style is ideal. Field Oriented Control seems to be the most universal commutation algorithm. Yes there are Arduino based Inverters in the open source world. Using The IC posted eliminates that need. It is logic based so it needs no programming. It has a few options that could be pulled down with a MCU and small transistor. A purpose built ev controller will offer some type visual gui. Good ones will have datalogging.

You might control a series wound dc motor with this for example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/300A-200V-7...-/172668870882






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Old 06-12-2021, 12:31 PM   #94
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this is a breakout board for the logic IC. Build a bridge with hard switching fet or IGBT (high voltage) and this is the logic that runs it. It times commutation with a hall sensor on the motor shaft. Put the H bridge in a large car audio amplifier chassis and run fan and liquid cooling through the chassis. The inverter is proportionately controlled by drive by wire throttle. Because the fast processing needed for commutation is handled by the logic based ic you can incorporate fairly unsophisticated microcontroller to provide a GUI for controlling the IC's options.
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I depends on the motor you are running which commutation style is ideal. Field Oriented Control seems to be the most universal commutation algorithm. Yes there are Arduino based Inverters in the open source world. Using The IC posted eliminates that need. It is logic based so it needs no programming. It has a few options that could be pulled down with a MCU and small transistor. A purpose built ev controller will offer some type visual gui. Good ones will have datalogging.
That chip and evaluation board are for open loop control of small motors, not for automotive traction motors. Think cordless drill, handheld vacuum cleaner, or toy RC car.
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:16 PM   #95
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Im sorry but you are incorrect. Who told you that? One can build a rhobust bridge and fire it with the IC been there done it already...The majority of power tools do not use bldc motors with hall sensors attached. The IC can run open or closed loop but in this case its best to Salvage the "1000hp" Lexus system and be happy. See I know the logic side of an inverter can be considered somewhat immaterial to what the BRIDGE can handle. As long as you can drives gates u could hack the logic from a "toy" inverter... For sure it makes more sense to hack an entire vehicle then attempt to reverse engineer it to work kinda like you want it to...

Brushless DC
Motor Controller
The MC33035 is a high performance second generation monolithic
brushless DC motor controller containing all of the active functions
required to implement a full featured open loop, three or four phase
motor control system. This device consists of a rotor position decoder
for proper commutation sequencing, temperature compensated
reference capable of supplying sensor power, frequency
programmable sawtooth oscillator, three open collector top drivers,
and three high current totem pole bottom drivers ideally suited for
driving power MOSFETs.
Also included are protective features consisting of undervoltage
lockout, cycle−by−cycle current limiting with a selectable time
delayed latched shutdown mode, internal thermal shutdown, and a
unique fault output that can be interfaced into microprocessor
controlled systems.
Typical motor control functions include open loop speed, forward or
reverse direction, run enable, and dynamic braking. The MC33035 is
designed to operate with electrical sensor phasings of 60°/300° or
120°/240°, and can also efficiently control brush DC motors

• Undervoltage Lockout
• 6.25 V Reference Capable of Supplying Sensor Power
• Fully Accessible Error Amplifier for Closed Loop Servo
Applications

• High Current Drivers Can Control External 3−Phase MOSFET
Bridge

• Cycle−By−Cycle Current Limiting
• Pinned−Out Current Sense Reference
• Internal Thermal Shutdown
• Selectable 60°/300° or 120°/240° Sensor Phasings
• Can Efficiently Control Brush DC Motors with External MOSFET
H−Bridge
• NCV Prefix for Automotive and Other Applications Requiring
Unique Site and Control Change Requirements; AEC−Q100

Qualified and PPAP Capable
• Pb−Free Packages are Available

ZVOLV you been added to my contact list. I'm leaving because everyone is posting what they think here but the Op. My bet is it falls to the bottom. These silly debates just keep air under the kite. Building a drive really cant be much simpler than using an IC like this to control a dc or 3 phase bridge. So ill watch this build with great interest from here. Some things just aren't a matter of opinion. If the tools and materials are at his disposal this project doesn't need 10 pages of ideas for an engineer about to graduate to succeed.




Hubert

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Old 06-13-2021, 09:36 AM   #96
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Here is an example the phone world just doesn't understand. I doubt there is a real EE alive who hasn't built a simple h bridge. The fets in this example could peak 35 hp at 25*Celsius . This small example using the IC is more than any hand tool or rc toy would need and of course stacking and a better power stage design only lowers the resistance. There are notes on designing high current power stages. Anyone at this holds those lessons. TI to name a few has authored some very informative ones. I have them here with me. The phone world can come to terms that a drive this size would be too large for any hand tool or rc toy. Single chip solution that do that would be like you find in a harddrive. Really small footprint def not this....even experience with hand tools would teach you not many have anything more than large brushed dc motors with one fet for motor control. You go through alot in car stereo and especially automobile production lines.....you could only wish they are predominantly brushless...



Keeping it simple is your best bet when you hardly know what you are doing.

I would have broken an m46 first but Im viewing the "turbobricks" way EV with great interest from here. Time to get it going wouldn't you say....alot of work ahead in retrofitting the entire lexus hybrid system into the volvo. Then you are going to reverse engineer the controls and visual indication. It sounds cheap too. To me it seems like its the loftiest idea of them all but we will see when it all materializes that I was wrong.

Regards,
Hubert

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Old 06-13-2021, 09:53 AM   #97
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Don’t need to reverse engineer the controller. The interwebz already has step by step instructions for how to hack the Lexus controller via CAN, simple code, and make it work. Same places have the necessary information to also hack a leaf or Tesla controller.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:02 AM   #98
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Get it going because thats whats been discussed here. Hopefully the 4 page discussion stops and the simple easy and economical build begins. Since the reverse engineering has already been done and documented by another individual that should speed the build up quite a bit. The instructions will certainly prepare any expert ....

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Old 06-13-2021, 10:16 AM   #99
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Take that chip off your shoulder bro. Your lies and rants are beginning to annoy.

I have no need for the Lexus box in my personal project. I’ve got my own controller, motor, and my pack design is in the final stages of development, and case parts are soon to be machined.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:19 AM   #100
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Can u also reduce you photo so we dont have to transverse off the peninsula to view it? Lol so I take it you've never built your own simple hbridge...? This thing you showing me is no comparison in quality or sophistication to the drives I've shown you.


And still its something any competent engineer can build. This you show isnt from a lexus so is it validation that you know how to purchase a drive for a project while suggesting he use the "lexus box"? Why you not using it but suggesting it to him and then show me a purchased drive which goes against your suggestion to him.

Regards
Hubert

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