home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2021, 09:46 AM   #26
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

There's a spread in what you can pay for an 'LS', for sure, but yeah, at this point in time a 'low end' less desirable LS motor will just be sitting out in the yard. Iron block lower displacement truck engines with plenty of miles, maybe do a little due diligence and haul a battery, jumper cables and compression tester out into the yard and rule out that it has something majorly wrong with it. But 'yard motors' are cheap, SBC or LS.

Fuel injection is just better - much more flexible in the future if your plans change and you want to add some boost. I think you're better off going with an LS platform in general, it's a better motor, great aftermarket support, plenty of engines in the junkyards.
__________________
'63 PV Rat Rod
'93 245 16VT Classic #1141

Last edited by JohnMc; 06-07-2021 at 11:07 AM..
JohnMc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 11:04 AM   #27
Jdvolvo240
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 740atl View Post
I would put that estimate on the high side. Not sure where you're located, but most pnp jy's around will charge $200 for an engine, $125-175 for a trans. The one pnp I go to outside Allentown, PA charges $15-20 for a wiring harness.


If you're going to carb out of simplicity, I don't get how a sbc is going to be more expensive than an ls swap.

What's your overall budget?
So, just to be clear, I'm flip flopping on what to do. I'm really digging in and trying to find as much information/pricing I can. If going the SBC route, I'd want to pull a motor out of a 90's Chevy truck as they have a 700r4 but have fuel injection. I'd need a new carb to eliminate the fuel injection. They also use a computer to control timing so I'd need a new distributor to eliminate that as well I believe. I've found a distributor for $200 that'll work and a coil for $60 ("performance" coil) I'd need to buy the mount from JTR which is about $160. For the carb, idk I can probably find a used one at a swap meet but let's just go with $300 as that's what most of them on summit cost. I know not much about SBC so I'm not sure if I'd need a new intake or not. Other than that, I have no clue if the headers will clear the steering shaft. If I'm looking at around $1700 including motor and trans (it's $250 for a motor and $150 for a trans at my "upullit". If I go this route, I will lack some enjoyable features that a ls would offer but I wouldn't have to get a computer reprogrammed every time I upgraded a part. I guess, all things considered, a SBC swap seems cheaper at roughly $400 for engine trans, $160 I think for the mount, $200 for distributor, $300 for carb, $100 for fuel regulator, $1200. And then the little stuff like fuel pump, drive shaft would leave me at about the same price as an LS swap. Plus it'll be easier to boost an LS than a SBC although like I said, I don't know much about them other than what I've researched in the last few days. I'm definitely on the fence between the two and if we're honest, I don't need to switch to a carb and could save a good chunk just keeping the EFI. I'm not sure.
Jdvolvo240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 11:08 AM   #28
Jdvolvo240
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
There's a spread in what you can pay for an 'LS', for sure, but yeah, at this point in time a 'low end' less desirable LS motor will just be sitting out in the yard. Iron block lower displacement truck engines with plenty of miles, maybe do a little due diligence and haul a battery, jumper cables and compression tester out into the yard and rule out that it has something majorly wrong with it. But 'yard motors' are cheap, SBC or LS.

Fuel injection is just better - much more flexible in the future if your plans change and you want to add some boost. I think you're better off going with an LS platform in general, it's a better motor, great aftermarket support, plenty of engines in the junkyards.
Yeah that's what I've thought about. I've seen turboed SBC but not sure what goes into it.
Jdvolvo240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 11:39 AM   #29
740atl
rb67 life
 
740atl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Default

So it sounds like your budget is tight. Have you considered the lt1 out of a bbody (iron heads) or an fbody (aluminum heads) ? It's a 'fairly' stout package as is (with the fuel injection) and you while you don't need a distributor (dizzy clearance is tight in 240 to begin with), you might want to swap out for a new opti. There aren't that many upgrades to make.. mostly boltons... larger TB, 1.6 roller rockers, decent valve springs and a cam... well the cam isn't a bolton but hey.(CC503). It's not like you're going to have to have it reflashed that often.... there's just not that much to do to it (unless you got the b-body version and decided to upgrade to the aluminum heads later). I guess I'm not seeing the reflashing as a deal breaker... If you don't want to deal with tuning the efi yourself, flashing is it. There's nothing to say in the future you can't plunk down the change for an aftermarket EMS and plug and play that thing to work and tune it yourself.

You are going to have issues with header clearance. You will have to do some fab work on the exhaust to make it work. Even shorty headers will require some massaging. Can you do that work or will you have others do it? Stock exhaust manifolds come pretty close to working as is... I considered using the manifolds that came with my bbody lt1 but made my own headers.

If you do the lt1 you don't need the fuel pressure regulator as it comes with one on the fuel rail.

you will end up spending money on getting the two piece driveshaft shortened and adapted to using the slip yoke, that is unless you have a 1 piece d/s built for you.

I ended up pulling my engine out of a running caprice... I listened to it run, then I yanked the motor. I paid a little more for it just so I could hear it run before I bought it, but even then, $350 for the entire engine with harness, accessories and pcm complete. Granted I trashed the pcm and went with megasquirt but that's a different story.

EDIT... in the end, if you can weld yourself I estimate a loose $1000 for the whole package... again, you may add another $200 for a decent optispark and you end up with a 275 hp package (assuming you get the aluminum heads). This all hinges on you being resourceful when it comes to sourcing a decent engine/trans and doing your due diligence.

Last edited by 740atl; 06-07-2021 at 12:29 PM..
740atl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 03:08 PM   #30
Jdvolvo240
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 740atl View Post
So it sounds like your budget is tight. Have you considered the lt1 out of a bbody (iron heads) or an fbody (aluminum heads) ? It's a 'fairly' stout package as is (with the fuel injection) and you while you don't need a distributor (dizzy clearance is tight in 240 to begin with), you might want to swap out for a new opti. There aren't that many upgrades to make.. mostly boltons... larger TB, 1.6 roller rockers, decent valve springs and a cam... well the cam isn't a bolton but hey.(CC503). It's not like you're going to have to have it reflashed that often.... there's just not that much to do to it (unless you got the b-body version and decided to upgrade to the aluminum heads later). I guess I'm not seeing the reflashing as a deal breaker... If you don't want to deal with tuning the efi yourself, flashing is it. There's nothing to say in the future you can't plunk down the change for an aftermarket EMS and plug and play that thing to work and tune it yourself.

You are going to have issues with header clearance. You will have to do some fab work on the exhaust to make it work. Even shorty headers will require some massaging. Can you do that work or will you have others do it? Stock exhaust manifolds come pretty close to working as is... I considered using the manifolds that came with my bbody lt1 but made my own headers.

If you do the lt1 you don't need the fuel pressure regulator as it comes with one on the fuel rail.

you will end up spending money on getting the two piece driveshaft shortened and adapted to using the slip yoke, that is unless you have a 1 piece d/s built for you.

I ended up pulling my engine out of a running caprice... I listened to it run, then I yanked the motor. I paid a little more for it just so I could hear it run before I bought it, but even then, $350 for the entire engine with harness, accessories and pcm complete. Granted I trashed the pcm and went with megasquirt but that's a different story.

EDIT... in the end, if you can weld yourself I estimate a loose $1000 for the whole package... again, you may add another $200 for a decent optispark and you end up with a 275 hp package (assuming you get the aluminum heads). This all hinges on you being resourceful when it comes to sourcing a decent engine/trans and doing your due diligence.
I'm all over the place on this thread ��. I'm gonna have to make a whole build thread with more information in a centralized place than what I've been able to find.

Any way, as I've stated before, I'm kinda at a cross road between a LM7 out of a 2002 Silverado and a SBC out of a early 90's 1500/2500. Someone said the SBC pretty much drops in. It'll also be easier to find one as my junkyard has about 13 trucks from 1989-1996. It'll be pretty tough finding an LT1 in the local pnp so If I go the SBC route, I'll probably just upgrade to aluminum heads later down the road.

Here's what I'm thinking, I've already got the sts machining lsx mounts and 4L60E mount. That's $400 right there, obviously I can just sell them on here to the next guy and get my money back and go with the JTR SBC mount. Only thing I'm trying to figure out is how exactly the ignition and TBI work on the L31 engine and if the 4l60 tranny that is mated to it has the same mount as the 4L60E. According to my estimated cost of all this, lsx swap at bare minimum is looking like 1700 where as SBC is looking like 900-1000. Keep in mind this is specifically looking at engine and trans, not including cost of custome exhaust, driveshaft, and fuel pump. All of which I believe can be done easily under $1000. If I got the SBC route, that'll leave me plenty to swap the carb to a non fuel injected one and swap out an upgraded distributor.

At this point, I guess I'm looking more into fitment/difficult vs reward. I have no issue dropping $1700 to get the lm7 in there with the 4l60e but I also have no issue spending less.

Ps: sorry all for the long posts that probably seem like rambling. I guess I'm using this thread as a way to work out questions and indecision rather than ask questions lol. Either way, I hope someone in the future or in the present can find this thread and gain some knowledge from me and others!

Edit: I can also pull a 350 from 96-99 model 1500's. They are the same as the early 90's ones but come with a 4l60e. There's a mod you can do with an MSD distributor to swap the carb to a non fuel injected one but you need to wire the crank position sensor into the Tach wires off the distributor, this solves the TCM issue preventing the trans from shifting. Holly also makes a TPS kit to bolt onto a carb that you also would need to wire to the TCM to get throttle position. This will solve the issue if the 4l60 and 4l60e have different mounts which I'm still trying to figure out. Hard to do when you can't go to a junkyard and look for yourself lol. I'm abroad right now so that's why I can't.

Edit 2: I said that L31 were made for pre 96 model trucks and apparently that's false, they had L05 in the light duty and L19 in the heavy duty. It'll be easier finding a 5.7 out of the 96-2002 range which will come with the 4l60E so if the engine mounts fit right, I will be good mounting the transmission.

Last edited by Jdvolvo240; 06-07-2021 at 03:44 PM..
Jdvolvo240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 03:10 PM   #31
fatcatbestcat
Professional Hack
 
fatcatbestcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Mississauga, ON (Canada)
Default

Careful which truck SBC you buy.

Don't get a 305 (if you have power goals anyway)
fatcatbestcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 03:38 PM   #32
Jdvolvo240
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatcatbestcat View Post
Careful which truck SBC you buy.

Don't get a 305 (if you have power goals anyway)
Yes! Ill have to check vins and s/n's whenever I go looking! Also! I accidentally made a mistake! In other comments, I stated the L31 (the motor I am leaning more towards) was made in early 90's. This is false, they brought them back 1996-2002. They had L05's pre 96 and had around 100hp less than the L31, they were in light duty trucks. 1996-2002 350 vortec seems to be the only option in terms of availability/price for my situation. Not sure about post 1999 as Im still researching the whole transition to the 5.3 LS based LM7. I'd imagine they had both the 5.3 and the light duty trucks and the 5.7 in the heavy duty ones although this is speculation on my half.

I'm sure a Chevy guy out there is going to cringe when he reads my comments but oh well.
Jdvolvo240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 03:41 PM   #33
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

And I'm not really very well versed in LS's, but my general impression is that even the smaller displacement motors wake up very nicely and make decent HP with a simple cam-n-valve-springs swap, just let them rev a bit. And the difference in result fades even further if you put some boost into it.
JohnMc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 03:42 PM   #34
Jdvolvo240
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 740atl View Post
So it sounds like your budget is tight. Have you considered the lt1 out of a bbody (iron heads) or an fbody (aluminum heads) ? It's a 'fairly' stout package as is (with the fuel injection) and you while you don't need a distributor (dizzy clearance is tight in 240 to begin with), you might want to swap out for a new opti. There aren't that many upgrades to make.. mostly boltons... larger TB, 1.6 roller rockers, decent valve springs and a cam... well the cam isn't a bolton but hey.(CC503). It's not like you're going to have to have it reflashed that often.... there's just not that much to do to it (unless you got the b-body version and decided to upgrade to the aluminum heads later). I guess I'm not seeing the reflashing as a deal breaker... If you don't want to deal with tuning the efi yourself, flashing is it. There's nothing to say in the future you can't plunk down the change for an aftermarket EMS and plug and play that thing to work and tune it yourself.

You are going to have issues with header clearance. You will have to do some fab work on the exhaust to make it work. Even shorty headers will require some massaging. Can you do that work or will you have others do it? Stock exhaust manifolds come pretty close to working as is... I considered using the manifolds that came with my bbody lt1 but made my own headers.

If you do the lt1 you don't need the fuel pressure regulator as it comes with one on the fuel rail.

you will end up spending money on getting the two piece driveshaft shortened and adapted to using the slip yoke, that is unless you have a 1 piece d/s built for you.

I ended up pulling my engine out of a running caprice... I listened to it run, then I yanked the motor. I paid a little more for it just so I could hear it run before I bought it, but even then, $350 for the entire engine with harness, accessories and pcm complete. Granted I trashed the pcm and went with megasquirt but that's a different story.

EDIT... in the end, if you can weld yourself I estimate a loose $1000 for the whole package... again, you may add another $200 for a decent optispark and you end up with a 275 hp package (assuming you get the aluminum heads). This all hinges on you being resourceful when it comes to sourcing a decent engine/trans and doing your due diligence.
I also plan on doing a tear down, not to a bare block but pulling heads and oil pan to examine everything, might end up going down to a bare block just to examine wear and such If I decide to. If I pull a bad motor, depending on the integrity of the block, I might end up having to do a full rebuild although for $250 a motor, I could probably just test my luck and pull another 5.7L. Either way, I'm going to inspect what I get just to ensure I won't run into issues as soon as its driveable.
Jdvolvo240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2021, 12:09 AM   #35
white855T
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas,TX
Default

Pnp had half of sale about a week ago. I'm picked up a 5.3 w/ harness, ecu, starter, alternator, ps pump,ac pump and even threw in a turbo. All for $185(granted, I had cores for everything). The auto trans was about $95(also had a core). But its everything else that adds up(but that's a given).
white855T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2021, 12:47 PM   #36
Jdvolvo240
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white855T View Post
Pnp had half of sale about a week ago. I'm picked up a 5.3 w/ harness, ecu, starter, alternator, ps pump,ac pump and even threw in a turbo. All for $185(granted, I had cores for everything). The auto trans was about $95(also had a core). But its everything else that adds up(but that's a given).
Yeah, that puts me about where I expected to get the motor and trans. I'm not too worried about buying it initially, it's more or less what's going to go into getting it to fit and how much it'll cost. I still have a few more months before I'll be back in the states to search for and pull a motor and trans so I've got plenty of time to save up and purchase all the small stuff that might be needed although I am just trying to find as much info as possible to make an informed decision on where I want to take this project.
Jdvolvo240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2021, 05:02 PM   #37
volvomancharlie
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Default LS swap possibilites

Here are 2 good sites for swap information. I have not done business with either but there is a lot of info on each:

https://swapspecialties.com/ Looks like they can get the LS wiring going for cheap and simple

search LSX4U, their site has lots of swap info
volvomancharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.