T5 Timing Belt Stupidity

Just over a month ago I picked up a 2011 C30 T5 with around 167k kms (~103k miles) on it. It was still running on the Factory timing belt so I figured I would have it changed. The car was now 10 years old and getting pretty close to the mileage that Volvo recommends replacing it. And of course it's also nice to have the peace of mind knowing that its fresh and less of a ticking time bomb.

A couple weeks ago I set up an appointment with a local and very reputable indie Volvo mechanic for tomorrow (Jul 28) to have it done.

Fast forward to this past weekend I was making a small trip around town when the dash turned into a well lit Christmas tree and completely shut down. My stomach instantly dropped as my first thought was, sh*t that was the timing belt going wasn't it. I immediately put the car in neutral and coasted into a nearby gas station where I took a quick look and ultimately decided to have it towed straight to the same mechanic 4 days in advance of my appointment so that he could take a look and asses what happened.

I just got a call back from him with the diagnosis, the timing had indeed gone off. Now what caused it? The AC belt broke or slipped off and caught itself in the timing belt causing it to skip.

So now I've got to also pay to have the head machined and new valves installed all because the AC belt couldn't wait another 4 days to screw everything up.

Apparently this isn't uncommon with these engine either. So other than to vent my frustrations the reason I made this thread was to see anyone knows of anything that can be done to prevent this from happening in the future other than changing the belts and tensioners regularly. Any kind of aftermarket guard or guide that can be installed to avoid any chance of the accessory belts interfering with the timing belt?

thessejway said:

Any kind of aftermarket guard or guide that can be installed to avoid any chance of the accessory belts interfering with the timing belt?

Click to expand...

Aren't there timing belt covers on that engine?

I would also like to add that I checked the cars service records and the Serpentine belt was replaced at the dealership around 60k kms ago

alschnertz said:

Aren't there timing belt covers on that engine?

Click to expand...

Apparently not very effective ones

I remember seeing an S60 that hit some deep snow/ice which damaged the belt cover enough to throw the timing belt off and ruin the motor.

This is a very common problem.

From what I know, this issue and coolant loss (no coolant level sensor) are the number 1 killers of P1 volvos.

The accessory belts are cheap and easy to change, the tensioners are not horrible either.

Id visually inpect the serp belts every 25k and change them every 50k. Id do the serp belt tensioners everytime the timing belt gets changed.

blkaplan said:

This is a very common problem.

Click to expand...

Saw that happen more often than you would think.


Way back when I worked at the dealer and these things were new Volvo Recommended 10 years or 105K. We would start recommending them at 90K. Nww before you say "way to over sell" I had a few come in in the mid 90 range 5-6yrs old with broken belts and damaged heads.

The customers fought with Volvo over this and they did pay for the repairs but it turned a job that was easily done into a production and instead of a day or an afternoon at the shop into a major inconvenience. Broken down car, gettin it towed, waiting to get it in, a much longer repair time and then a deal getting repaid. At least when i was working their most of the customers were professional people and the cost of an early repair far outweighed their time and inconvenience dealing with it.

Everytime a P1 is on the lift the belts get inspected in our shop. If you look closely, you'll see fine splitting running the length of the belt rather than across the belt like a timing belt.

The early P1s had a problem when the belts stretched one of the belts would rub and then snap and end up in the timing belt. You had to set the clearance between the two tensioners properly. I remmeber the first few we saw under warranty our FTS always had us measure the gap. It is in ViDA now.

The belts popping off during an impact (specially during a snow storm) is really common.

Oh, there is also a small hole at about the 1-2 o'clock position that mice like to crawl in. Another nice way to skip the belt.

Sorry about your luck. Youre not the only one to book a timing belt change and have it go in a day. I've also had a guy be quoted a belt, made it 20km and have it fail.

Jordan

Thanks for all the replies, I wish I had learned about this before it happened so I could have done a check. It's especially ****ty when I've only gotten to drive the car 1500kms. The last owner certainly lucked out.

Considering that my car is a 2011 you would think that this is something that Volvo would have addressed in the design after the platform being out for so many years. Can't imagine it would be too difficult to come up with a solution either.

Must have been planned obsolescence.

The original belt on my 2010 C30 looked pretty ragged at 70k. I replaced it with a continental belt which looked brand new after another 90k. I changed it anyway.

My car has 198k miles on it now, but I've only changed the serpentine belts once because it was convenient.

Maybe I lucked out, but I never had any real problems with my 2011 C30. Some bits of the rear suspension were replaced at the dealers recommendation. That's about all I can think of.

While we're on the topic of P1s....

Check your sunroof drains!

-_-

The roads in my area are pretty rough is some places, so I'm wondering if all that bumping around has been hard on the belts.

D-Man9000 said:

While we're on the topic of P1s....

Check your sunroof drains!

-_-

Click to expand...

That's actually something I have checked and they appear to be draining just fine... for the moment

I picked up a '12 S60 with a T5 this spring for a killer deal. It was at 122k on the original timing belt. I was nervous as hell driving it home on that belt, convinced it was going to snap before I even had a chance to dig into it.

dorvin said:

I picked up a '12 S60 with a T5 this spring for a killer deal. It was at 122k on the original timing belt. I was nervous as hell driving it home on that belt, convinced it was going to snap before I even had a chance to dig into it.

Click to expand...

WHen I bought my 240 years back it was 19 years old with the original tbelt. It looked horrendous. I knew it wasn't a valve bender but was shocked it was still in one piece.

Temperature/climate seems to play a large part in belt life. We are pretty northerly and see -40 typically, but we have people who live up north of 60 who seem lower than -40 for months at a time. Their belts will look like trash after a couple of years.

The worst car for eating belts has to be first genS/V 40s. Wow. Those things will have the grand Canyon running across them in no time. Crazy thing? Use the same part number belt as the 5 cylinder. Not sure if the harmonics of the engine play a part? But man I've condemned many of those cars due to snapped timing belts.

Jordan

GTJordan said:

Temperature/climate seems to play a large part in belt life. We are pretty northerly and see -40 typically, but we have people who live up north of 60 who seem lower than -40 for months at a time. Their belts will look like trash after a couple of years.

The worst car for eating belts has to be first genS/V 40s. Wow. Those things will have the grand Canyon running across them in no time. Crazy thing? Use the same part number belt as the 5 cylinder. Not sure if the harmonics of the engine play a part? But man I've condemned many of those cars due to snapped timing belts.

Jordan

Click to expand...

Ozone eats them too.
Hot urban climates are hard on rubber.

Task Failed 100% Successfully



6 weeks later and I finally have the car back. All 20 valves were bent, so it took some time for the machine shop to source everything. My mechanic said he had to spend a ton of time fishing out all the strands of AC belt out of the crank gear. apparently it was a real mess.

Frustratingly, since getting the car back it's been throwing 2 check engine codes. They are the following

P054A
Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor B, cold start _ timing over-advanced

P000B
Exhaust camshaft position B, Bank 1 -- slow response

Any good ideas as to what would be causing this or what would fix it? I'm hoping it something I can fix myself. After not having my car for a month and a half I'd really like to avoid the inconvenience/expense of having my car in the shop again.

Also should I be worried driving the car with these codes?

thessejway said:

Frustratingly, since getting the car back it's been throwing 2 check engine codes. They are the following

P054A
Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor B, cold start _ timing over-advanced

P000B
Exhaust camshaft position B, Bank 1 -- slow response

Click to expand...

I think it has those silly oil-powered variable-timing cam gears.

They spin freely on the shafts, and only get tightened down once the belt is on and tensioned, using special tools to precisely lock the cams and crank in place.

The "hubs" of the sprockets usually have a special procedure to put them into the proper "install" position. If the hub is turned too far one way, the cam can only add more advance. If the other way, it starts off at max advance and can only retard from there.

Very fiddly, and sometimes confusing if you don't quite know what you're doing, and even if you do know!

Personally, I like sprockets with pins, and holes, and slots, so you can only put them on one way.

What masterblaster said. Minus the not liking vvt stuff. It's easy.

But you should find out if he used the proper tools to lock down the cams rather than eye balling them.

On some severely impacted valves I have had the VVT hub be damaged and need replacement. But this has only happened to me maybe twice out of probably 50 valve jobs I've done.

But regardless, the codes are because the cam isn't reaching proper adjustment via VVT. Likely because the base can timing wasn't set correctly.

Jordan