home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2022, 10:13 AM   #1
Dvroofer
Board Member
 
Dvroofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Long Beach,ca
Default Garrett Turbo suggestions

Looking for Garrett options for my b230f +t 8v ipd cam ms’d 80lb injected volvo 240wagon. I’m just seeing what size I should be looking for to suit my application. Researching the gtx2863r and similar and was wondering any one’s experiences with what models on our bricks.Thanks
Dvroofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 11:10 AM   #2
rb92673
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Clemente
Default

Some good information in this thread:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=342385
rb92673 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:21 PM   #3
gsellstr
Vintage anti-ricer
 
gsellstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BFE Desert east of Cali
Default

I've run a handful over the years. Went from the 13c to 15g to HE341 to HE351 to GT2871R to GTX2867 Gen 2 (current). I really do like the 2867, pretty quick to spool (well, at lower elevations anyway...lol). Never really maxed it out, ramps up a lot better than the 2871 did, using the same .63 hotside (from ATP).
__________________
RIP
Ken Rogers "Redwood Chair" 9/26/2022 - 'Raise the lowered', and always 'Return it to stock'
Doug Williams "Mr. Doug" 4/15/2009
Pete Fluitman "fivehundred" 7/14/2013
Mick Starkey "TrickMick" 1/10/14
Mark Baldwin "blue850t5" 7/19/18
Nick Fengler "fengler" 8/6/18
Thomas Fritz "stealthfti" 10/11/18

74 144
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=224983
90 745Ti
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=334698


Still your local Superpro dealer!
gsellstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 12:44 PM   #4
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Redmond, OR
Default

The rally car I do a bunch of work on uses a gtx2860. Works great and it's a compact package that fits well. The coolant hoses are TIGHT with the ATP housing and the manifold hardware. I think it's a little too small for the sustained levels or RPM and boost that we're using on the car.
If you want a lot of top end, you'll want a bigger compressor. The 2860 is a great DD turbo though.

The 3071 (and I guess 3076 from the thread linked above) seem to work really well on these motors if you want to make good power.

If you can get by with just an oil-cooled turbo, the offerings from YoshiFab and ATP seem like a great value as well.
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.

Head work: https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=349975

Temp Sender Adapters: https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=348169

Last edited by culberro; 09-21-2022 at 12:52 PM..
culberro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2022, 11:23 PM   #5
Duder
laziest worldwide
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
The rally car I do a bunch of work on uses a gtx2860. Works great and it's a compact package that fits well. The coolant hoses are TIGHT with the ATP housing and the manifold hardware. I think it's a little too small for the sustained levels or RPM and boost that we're using on the car.
Are you logging turbo speed?

In WRC we've been running the same size turbocharger you've got (~60mm compressor / 54mm turbine) since 2011 when the switch from 2.0L to 1.6L happened. They run near the speed limit all day long. That speed limit is 186krpm incidentally.

If you think it's too small in terms of flow range, I wouldn't mind taking a look at data and making recommendations from there.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2022, 01:03 AM   #6
gsellstr
Vintage anti-ricer
 
gsellstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BFE Desert east of Cali
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
Are you logging turbo speed?

In WRC we've been running the same size turbocharger you've got (~60mm compressor / 54mm turbine) since 2011 when the switch from 2.0L to 1.6L happened. They run near the speed limit all day long. That speed limit is 186krpm incidentally.

If you think it's too small in terms of flow range, I wouldn't mind taking a look at data and making recommendations from there.

Pssshh, what does that guy know....lol
gsellstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2022, 02:10 AM   #7
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Redmond, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
Are you logging turbo speed?

In WRC we've been running the same size turbocharger you've got (~60mm compressor / 54mm turbine) since 2011 when the switch from 2.0L to 1.6L happened. They run near the speed limit all day long. That speed limit is 186krpm incidentally.

If you think it's too small in terms of flow range, I wouldn't mind taking a look at data and making recommendations from there.
I’m not logging turbo speed, but I would love to. Do you have a data logger I could use for a quick test? I would like to get a pressure sensor in the manifold so I can see what the exhaust pressure is vs boost.

I think the compressor flow is fine, but the turbine seems to limit flow… especially with the ATP 0.48 t3 housing.

And correct me if I’m wrong, but the WRC turbos are all using a restrictor. So they are running at near choke flow the entire time. I’m also guessing they have a lot lower exhaust pressure because if the restrictor at higher revs.
culberro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2022, 08:42 AM   #8
Stiggy Pop
Board Member
 
Stiggy Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Granville, MA
Default

if I were Garrett shopping I'd be looking at the G30 series..
__________________
'79 242
943 pickup
Stiggy Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2022, 10:22 PM   #9
Duder
laziest worldwide
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I’m not logging turbo speed, but I would love to. Do you have a data logger I could use for a quick test? I would like to get a pressure sensor in the manifold so I can see what the exhaust pressure is vs boost.

I think the compressor flow is fine, but the turbine seems to limit flow… especially with the ATP 0.48 t3 housing.

And correct me if I’m wrong, but the WRC turbos are all using a restrictor. So they are running at near choke flow the entire time. I’m also guessing they have a lot lower exhaust pressure because if the restrictor at higher revs.
I don't have a data logger, sorry. But for sure it would be helpful for you to look at exhaust manifold pressure / turbine inlet pressure also.

I am not sure if we ever mapped the ATP 0.48 housing but your suspicion is likely correct - turbine choke flow might well be your limiting factor. Looking at turbine inlet pressure would help corroborate. By going up in turbine A/R you'd be able to reduce your turbine expansion ratio if you have a significantly negative engine delta p.

WRC does still use a restrictor, and yes they are running near choke always... the reduced choke with the restrictor, that is. Choke ends up being a vertical line just to the right of center of the map. They also run near the speed limit; one effect of the restrictor is it takes all the compressor speedlines and makes them asymptote vertically just before physical choke. So... if you're running near the restrictor choke flow, at a steady pressure ratio, you can go very slightly to the right on the map (increasing flow) and your turbo speed can go sky high instantly. Very careful turbo speed control is required to keep things safe.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2022, 01:13 PM   #10
Duder
laziest worldwide
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
The rally car I do a bunch of work on uses a gtx2860. Works great and it's a compact package that fits well. The coolant hoses are TIGHT with the ATP housing and the manifold hardware. I think it's a little too small for the sustained levels or RPM and boost that we're using on the car.
If you want a lot of top end, you'll want a bigger compressor. The 2860 is a great DD turbo though.

The 3071 (and I guess 3076 from the thread linked above) seem to work really well on these motors if you want to make good power.

If you can get by with just an oil-cooled turbo, the offerings from YoshiFab and ATP seem like a great value as well.
I was thinking about this thread and realized I should clarify a bit more. The reason for bringing up turbo speed and WRC was: I imagined you might be hinting at the GTX2860R being too small in terms of rotor size. Your situation is different I'm sure, but if it's hovering at very high turbo speed for the majority of a stage, it may not be the end of the world.

WRC actually uses a 57mm exducer compressor since 2017 and used to run near the speed limit all day long so that they were right up against choke with the restrictor and flowing as much as possible. They currently run a 36mm restrictor and are making close to 400hp from 1.6L, at 2.5 bar absolute manifold pressure. Choke flow with the 36mm restrictor is around .24 kg/s (32 lb/min) corrected on the compressor map x-axis. Up until recently the fresh air antilag system kept turbo speed as close to the limit as possible. For 2022 the regulations changed and they've got an MGU-K system on the rear axle and no more fresh air ALS. The compressor is the same as 2017-2021 though. Anyway this is a roundabout way of saying that the rotor size might seem "too small" since operation is so biased towards high speed, but in reality it works.

If you meant that you suspect compressor and/or turbine flow isn't sufficient with the GTX2860R then some further digging is absolutely warranted. Also if you don't have a restrictor or fresh air ALS then the situation is maybe not so comparable.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2022, 05:43 PM   #11
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Redmond, OR
Default

That’s some really good info on the choke flow with restrictor.
I don’t necessarily think the wheels are too small, but more the exhaust housing being an internally gated 0.48 setup being the restriction. With the 0.48 housing it’s 20-28psi by 2500 rpm (have to be careful about surge) and it caries it to ~7k. I’m sure with more tuning I could get the top end back, but with the 0.63 housing it was substantially better from 4k-7k.

I’ll try and get a crude exhaust pressure setup and get some data. I’m pretty sure the compressor housing doesn’t have the RPM sensor boss, but I’ll double check.
culberro is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.