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Old 08-06-2020, 04:35 PM   #1
Pillow
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Default 2.5T vs 3.2 (SI6)

Looking for your opinions on the 2.5T vs the newer 3.2 (SI6) motors.

Need a new ride for my daughter and trying to figure out which motor would be the least headache since she is off at college.

We have a 2006 XC70 with the 2.5T and it has been great so far and has ~190k on it. Normal maintenance such as the PCV has been done, plus a random Alt failure that was easy to fix. Basically I don't mind working on the 2.5T as it is pretty straight forward.

The 3.2 is unknown to me and gets mixed reviews in the press as thrashy and under powered. Also the local CL seems to have many with cooling issues...

Down to a P2 XC70 2005-2007 or a 2009 XC70. Anything newer is too pricey.

Any insight is appreciated!
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Old 08-06-2020, 05:58 PM   #2
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When the Si6 came out I really hated them. Thought for sure they would be problem plagued. They did have problems, but most of them have been fixed by now.

I would take whatever I could get with the lowest mileage. Either of them are good.

Some Si6 things- oil consumption is a problem on some. Volvo fixed these way out of warranty, so if it was going to burn oil, it either has been fixed, or it is not a consumer.

The aux belt tensioner bearing fails, ruins the aux belt. Service interval is 196K Km, but we have had a bunch of failures around 150K KM, so we change them then (tensioner, idler and belt).

Vacuum pumps leak oil- simple to reseal

Check the rear stay arm bushings for separation between the rubber and steel.

Check water pump for leaks (it will leave a line of dried coolant on the firewall in line with the aux belt).]

Edit- I'll add in a chirping sound from the engine that goes away with dipstick removed- pcv box on top of the engine (easy to replace).

Some people think the alternators go out, but have to do the job a second time because it is actually the pulley for the alternator (on the block side) that loosens and just rotates. Didn't need that alternator. Some alternators do fail, but its not any more common than any other alternator.

Honestly, take the one with the lowest mileage. I have family in both platforms and have no hesitations with either. Id be looking for a turbo Si6 engine though. The non turbo is a dog.

Jordan (been working with Volvo since 2006)
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Old 08-06-2020, 06:58 PM   #3
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TY Jordan! You hit a bunch of points that the XC90 folks brought up as warnings.

The PCV is a much better design on the 3.2 vs 2.5T from a labor standpoint!

I doubt the money is right for a T6, but that is def the way to go if possible.

But you are spot on, find a clean one with decent miles. Sadly a lot of the mid age Volvos are trashed, which is hard to do IMO as they are solid vehicles overall.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:31 PM   #4
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Neither?

Yamaha V8, not some ford/volvo POS (of the P2s).

Never sold them in V70 though. S80 & XC90 only, obviously. Catch the transmission solenoids & belt tensioner in time, engine bay cramped is all I remember with those. Front crankshaft rubber damper swells if the front crank seal leaks on it for too long and sparks/

IDK, , if one's going to have an electrically complex AWD P2 thing, at least get the one with the yamaha V8, they all get ****ty fuel econ/need the maintenance kept up/are old & used/fully depreciated, at least enjoy it/get the most cared for example possible?


Does it really matter how fast/luxurious for a first car, especially if kid isn't a car nut?
Just goes reliably/you don't get a phone call or expensive repair bill?
Honda CRV? Highlander? Beige camry?
Getting raped while stranded or by the repair shop would be a non-starter.

You could definitely do worse than the WWD volvo for neglect tolerance, but many are dirtbag neglected in the american market 15-20 years out, and you could do better, but volvos have a cheap purchase price...it's known you have a habit-are attracted by that/'first hit's free' syndrome/are moth to the flame from first login here...
...guilty...

It's weird too, XC90 V8 are dimly sought after/you actually kinda have to pay *something* for them.
Wish you could get them with $30K+ in receipts for dirt nothing well cared for with only one major problem 1-owner like the 2/7/9s of yesteryear.
Not so anymore. Beat to hell, interior falling apart, bumpers/trim look terrible, go to the junkyard and they all have the same problems as yours and then some is more the trend in the USA, even worse in CA or the dirty south.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:10 PM   #5
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Neither?

Yamaha V8, not some ford/volvo POS (of the P2s).

Never sold them in V70 though. S80 & XC90 only, obviously. Catch the transmission solenoids & belt tensioner in time, engine bay cramped is all I remember with those. Front crankshaft rubber damper swells if the front crank seal leaks on it for too long and sparks/
Agreed. My mom has a 2007 XC90 V8 Sport, the Yamaha V8 is an excellent engine. Although it's definitely tight to work on, it's otherwise not a bad engine to work on. They have their common issues, but for the most part, they're pretty minor.
I occasionally use it to tow home my piles of crap, and it's great for that too!
Fuel economy is pretty good for a V8, but honestly you'll get around the same gas mileage with any of the three engines.

I responded to your post on FB saying the SI6 was junk, but I say that mostly in comparison to the whiteblock or V8. I haven't owned an SI6, but I just don't see a reason to opt for that engine over the other two. Of course, the V8 is only an option in the XC90 or S80, not an XC70.

It really all comes down to preference though. The P2 and P3 are both great cars.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:29 PM   #6
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The T6 pretty much drives like a V8.

We have a 3.2 XC90 and T6 XC70. I'd agree the 3.2 motor isn't the most refined sounding thing in the world. The 240 hp seem fairly thirsty on most days.

I did the vacuum pump reseal myself. Other than that it has just needed oil changes.

I guess it's my belief that the 3.2 would be the most trouble free of the motors.
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Old 08-07-2020, 02:44 AM   #7
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They're all so cheap now, they all get terrible fuel econ in AWD, why not get a V8 1-owner with a giant stack of receipts, if one wanted a hideous P2/looks-like-crocks thing?
Rather have a no-t-belt/no GM transmission/compact aisin trans that actually works reliably (with updated solenoids), understressed japanese 4.4 V8 with real metal intake/accessories that don't fall off/no boost/plumbing mess than a T6/ PCV drama etc even if power is similar.

It's sorta like the Taurus SHO;car's a piece of crap, but you gotta admire them shoe-horning that Yamaha motor in there, power-limited in the FWD chassis, but it's the only vaguely 'collectible' Taurus that's dimly re-sellable.
K@@L-@ID of the era. Buy the ticket, take the ride?
Maybe they'll all just get junked, maybe you can have a prayer of re-selling it if not run into the ground?
Rarer/more Kool-aid versions of SHO's kinda vaguely sell now...
...if she cares for it/garages it, there's some chance it'll be sellable after providing some use?
Or perhaps you have a motor donor in the spirit of the Buchka fake racecar/Sbabbs after she wrecks it?

What a horrific era for american cars...
GM's fastest/trickest/most stylish offerings were the Typhoon/cyclone (nothing special style mini-truck/SUV & GN (ancient body/style): faster than the camaro of the era.
Ford's Aerodynamic 'modern styled' Taurus boring mid-size sedan/wagon with the Yamaha motor had a faster top speed/was such a bargain compared to the mustang of the day.
I digress...

IDK, we're swimming in them so thick and they're so cheap, but 1-owner V8 cars are somewhat rare.
Rather have a V8 that's under-stressed stirring the AWD porridge/lugging the 4000lb ugly fat pig rather than a boosted to the limit thing with avg american neglected oil changes, blow-by and perpetual PCV head-cold/rattly VVT gears/T-belt to change or dirtbag GM transmission on the T6.
Could do worse, but could do better too.

Why compromise with inferior engines?
or just buy one that will make it long enough to get her around before she wrecks it/drives it in to the ground in less than a year-18months, regardless of which engine as long as it doesn't 'splode in that time?

3.2 isn't so bad, just oddly slow, accessory drive weird/has issues (despite being in theory direct drive...leave it to volvo ), rattly/noisy/plastic FoMoCo labeled everything.
Don't care about going fast/they're not bad

It's more just that the P2 whole cars are all falling apart and hideous sad-dad-croc-wear here. Might as well have one, in the spirit of the Taurus SHO (in a nicer Volvo Tuxedo dress), with the V8. Pity they never offered the V8 in more baseline S60/V70 either.

But don't ask me about anything, I've test driven/repaired a bunch of XC90 and it just doesn't fill the SUV niche for me (though keep wondering about taking the plunge), if I must have a depreciated luxo-barge stupid douche-mobile SUV, I'll just get a land rover discovery like I had before, where someone had $30K+ in receipts and gave up on it/sold it for dirt/was practically begging me to take it. Body-on-frame, 4WD capable, motor is a piece of crap but ultimately repairable/RWD / Truck layout. That said, I got lucky; 1 owner and they paid silly money to replace most of the problem pieces (with some justification/correct diagnosis/capable hands) before diagnosing a couple electrical problems and getting an otherwise cared for used car.

There was an 07 V70 T5 with 6-speed manual, manual seats/no sunroof I always regret not buying hit in the nose a little. Didn't realize how rare that option combo was at the time (10 years ago).
That said, not sure if anyone cares or even desires a manual trans today.

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Old 08-07-2020, 07:56 AM   #8
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FWIW, the 3.2 V70 my parents have is pretty much trouble free.

A/C is not the best, works fine but condensor and pump are directly from a Ford and seem to wear faster than what I'm used to.
Coolant leaked on the alternator due to leaking steam line/coolant line, which was an easy fix and only early engines are prone to this.
Last 8 years, except for above two things, engine has been flawless. Just oil change, one time coil packs, spark plugs, nothing more. 180K now. It's running on LPG and while the system works fine and is very economical to run it can create some vacuum leaks and stuff.

Performance wise, its plenty fast for a bagage hauler, depending what you are used to. Will cruise all day at 100mph, no sweat.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Kjets On a Plane View Post
They're all so cheap now, they all get terrible fuel econ in AWD, why not get a V8 1-owner with a giant stack of receipts, if one wanted a hideous P2/looks-like-crocks thing?
Rather have a no-t-belt/no GM transmission/compact aisin trans that actually works reliably (with updated solenoids), understressed japanese 4.4 V8 with real metal intake/accessories that don't fall off/no boost/plumbing mess than a T6/ PCV drama etc even if power is similar.
The T6 I'm thinking of is the later 3.0L single turbo version that's often attributed to Rover by the internet. It's mated to the same 6 speed auto (TF-80 SC)that's found in many later P2 cars. I've never had an issue with that transmission.

The breather box is right on top of the motor. It's not thrashy or underpowered like the 3.2. I would even go so far as to say a T6 powered XC70 is quite fast for what it is.

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Old 08-07-2020, 11:35 AM   #10
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Right, the later SI6 T6 uses the same TF-80SC as the V8. Not nearly as many issues with that trans. Overall they're very reliable and much better than any of the previous transmissions (save for the P80's AW50-42).

The XC90 is actually a great SUV, especially with the V8. I didn't get into the whole SUV thing until recently, but they've grown on me. Well, COOL SUVs at least. Not the typical garbage they sell now. I still WAY prefer a wagon to an SUV, but they have their place.
For example, my dad has a 2004 X3. Although it's kinda the laughing stock of BMWs (at least in my eyes) it's actually awesome to drive. It handles like a 3 series, but has a little more cargo space. Granted it's not a lot, and it's ridiculously tight for an SUV, but it works. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting anything smaller than that.
I hate the stupidly small SUVs that are the "trend" now, like the stupid little Buick Encore and the like. Those things are so tiny and hideous... I don't see the purpose of owning one. What's wrong with a small hatchback, it probably has more cargo space!


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There was an 07 V70 T5 with 6-speed manual, manual seats/no sunroof I always regret not buying hit in the nose a little. Didn't realize how rare that option combo was at the time (10 years ago).
That said, not sure if anyone cares or even desires a manual trans today.
Wow, that's pretty much the holy grail P2. Late V70 T5s are stupid rare as it is, you'll probably never see another one with an M66.
Plenty of us still want manuals. I throw up in my mouth a little every time I buy an automatic... yet I continue to do it anyway. Ah, whatever... most of them will be manual swapped eventually.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:41 AM   #11
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IDK, , if one's going to have an electrically complex AWD P2 thing, at least get the one with the yamaha V8, they all get ****ty fuel econ/need the maintenance kept up/are old & used/fully depreciated, at least enjoy it/get the most cared for example possible?


Does it really matter how fast/luxurious for a first car, especially if kid isn't a car nut?
She is 19 and has been running a Audi A4 3.2 M6. Out of all the kids she is the one that enjoys to drive. The Audi sadly is a time bomb and any repair is a complete PITA as it need to go into the "service position" front grill. She loves the A4, but I told her that I'm not paying a shop to work on an A4 and I'm too far away to keep it serviced properly. Sucks but that is life.

The XC90 is just too big. Unless you NEED an SUV don't do it. Also the XC90 is not a real SUV with the part time Haldex BS.

Quote:
I responded to your post on FB saying the SI6 was junk, but I say that mostly in comparison to the whiteblock or V8. I haven't owned an SI6, but I just don't see a reason to opt for that engine over the other two. Of course, the V8 is only an option in the XC90 or S80, not an XC70.
LOL I see you there!

Quote:
I'd agree the 3.2 motor isn't the most refined sounding thing in the world. The 240 hp seem fairly thirsty on most days.
Yeah, I need to go and drive one of the 3.2s to see as well.

Quote:
FWIW, the 3.2 V70 my parents have is pretty much trouble free.

A/C is not the best, works fine but condensor and pump are directly from a Ford and seem to wear faster than what I'm used to.
Risk with all the Ford stuff! The 2.5T P2 is a true Volvo.

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3.2 isn't so bad, just oddly slow, accessory drive weird/has issues (despite being in theory direct drive...leave it to volvo ), rattly/noisy/plastic FoMoCo labeled everything.
Don't care about going fast/they're not bad
FoMoCo YUP!

Quote:
There was an 07 V70 T5 with 6-speed manual, manual seats/no sunroof I always regret not buying hit in the nose a little. Didn't realize how rare that option combo was at the time (10 years ago).
That said, not sure if anyone cares or even desires a manual trans today.
Unicorn! Would love to find one now. The two locally were high mileage and trashed. One S60 T5 M6 was up a year or so ago but was overpriced w/o all the maintenance to back it up, but was clean.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:43 AM   #12
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I hate the stupidly small SUVs that are the "trend" now, like the stupid little Buick Encore and the like. Those things are so tiny and hideous... I don't see the purpose of owning one. What's wrong with a small hatchback, it probably has more cargo space!

Wow, that's pretty much the holy grail P2. Late V70 T5s are stupid rare as it is, you'll probably never see another one with an M66.
Plenty of us still want manuals. I throw up in my mouth a little every time I buy an automatic... yet I continue to do it anyway. Ah, whatever... most of them will be manual swapped eventually.
Truth on both man!
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Old 08-07-2020, 04:04 PM   #13
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Oof...those Audi’s are so thick in our junkyards and all totally done.
Labor times are ridiculous and the germans/EU thought that they'd conquered recycled plastique.
Searching Audi & under $3k on CL is hysterically hilarious here...
...all pretty new, all with some repair that seems major that takes upteen-bajillion hours to complete with some special tools/plastic in the way, or old and totally trashed / runs sometimes with electrical gremlins.
Condolences.

If that’s what you’re coming from, you’re moving up if you get a cared for wwd Volvo in any case probably. Do like that the P2s don’t have egr/air pumps or as many sharp brackets like the P80 do.
Maintenance will definitely seem painless compared to the audi.

True on the single turbo 3.0 T6, much better indeed.
Some of those seem to use a lot of oil down here?

Unless you don’t want awd explicitly (Which seems rational enough) , xc90 and xc70 (v70 you mean?) aren’t much different for size of the P2s. It’s the larger more expensive tires on the xc90 and no more useful than a wagon that seem notable.

Regret not realizing that the V70 T5/M6 was so rare, especially with no sunroof/gadgets to break.
Was surprisingly inexpensive too...~$1500/clean title, but needed a hood & bumper and maybe fender if you’re picky (dent guy could have made it socially acceptable for what it was).
Brake booster also was starting to leak.
I knew they weren’t common, but didn’t realize they made only a handful.

Maybe not necessarily desired.
The cared for Rs, V8s and Rarest of the polestar (Of the P3) seem to retain some value.

Volvo needs a V70 built on this principle w/yamaha V8 (classic):
http://www.jeff-young-design.com/Wor...s-SHO-Test.pdf

Almost wonder if Ford, owning the controlling share of Volvo(cars) from late 99-00 to 2010 saw the light, used their connections with Yamaha to install those engines in their "premium" brand of the time/stopped trying to offer it in the Taurus as a loss-leader?
Kinda brilliant seamless transition there on Ford's part if that was the case...
Ford unloaded Volvo in 2010 of course...& reliable/no fuss/awesome Japanese Aisin-Yami V8 combo hasn't been seen since...

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Old 08-07-2020, 08:00 PM   #14
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I think 2012 was the last year of the V8 in the XC90. It's a shame really, the late P2 R designs look pretty sweet. All it was missing was the V8!

They're actually not too expensive though, I see the V8s listed for pretty cheap around here. Sure, super clean ones will be more, but you can find a decent one for $5k. I think we paid $6,200 for my mom's, IIRC. It had 149k at the time and the only real issues were the typical oil leaks and an ABS light on. Fixed that with a quick trip to the junkyard for a steering angle sensor.

P2Rs on the other hand are outrageously overpriced. I'd much rather have a T5 M66 (like the V70 you mentioned) than an R. Lighter, no FourC to worry about, MUCH stronger engine that's not prone to cracking liners... the advantages are endless. However they're unicorns.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:44 PM   #15
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The V8 is great. But, it is insane to say they're reliable. They also get terrible mileage. My 5 Cylinder XC90 got 2L/100km better than the V8 (10.5L/100km vs 12.9L/100km).

Our fleet of P2 XC70's have got down to the high 7L/100km range in the multiple ones we have had.

Saying the V8 doesn't have issues is a straight up lie, specially if you do not have a hoist.
On top of the idlers that fail and destroy the front engine cover (it is easier to pull the engine to replace if you have a hoist). The alternator is expensive and a bitch to change. The valve covers leak (usually onto the alternator)- That's a 4 hour job. Upper engine oil pans leaking (remove the subframe). Rear main seals leak, the connecting sleeve seals leak. All require dropping the subrame, removing exhaust manifolds.

But sure, the SI6 is a piece of ****
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:55 PM   #16
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Eh, an oil leak doesn’t make it unreliable. And all of those issues which WILL stop you can be prevented easily. The idlers are expensive at $50 each, but very easy to replace.
My mom’s has had all the leaks, the only one left that I need to fix is the upper oil pan. It’s a small leak, I’ll get to it eventually.

Although they’re tight to work on, it’s not impossible. Would I prefer to pull the engine to do the timing cover and valve covers? Hell yeah! But it’s not impossible with the engine installed.

Gas mileage isn’t awful for a V8, average is around 18.5 MPG during the summer running the AC constantly. Closer to 19.5-20 the rest of the year. On the highway, we’ve gotten it as high as 24.
To put that in perspective, I average 18 MPG in my V70R.
My cousin’s old 2013 F150 5.0 got around 13 MPG and my other cousin’s Durango 4.7 gets about the same. I don’t think the XC90 is too bad!
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:18 AM   #17
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Too bad you dont get the D5 in the USA.. A recent trip to the Alps, cruising between 70-100 mph.. 26-30 MPG(US)

fwiw; The 3.2 is roughly as fast ast the 2.5T, maybe a tad faster, the two I tested.
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:37 AM   #18
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Too bad you dont get the D5 in the USA.. A recent trip to the Alps, cruising between 70-100 mph.. 26-30 MPG(US)

fwiw; The 3.2 is roughly as fast ast the 2.5T, maybe a tad faster, the two I tested.
A D5 manual XC90 would be a dream daily driver.
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:49 AM   #19
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Eh, an oil leak doesn’t make it unreliable. And all of those issues which WILL stop you can be prevented easily.
It depends on what the oil is leaking on. It's easier to work on motors that haven't been frosted with cooked motor oil.
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:45 PM   #20
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The V8 is great. But, it is insane to say they're reliable. They also get terrible mileage. My 5 Cylinder XC90 got 2L/100km better than the V8 (10.5L/100km vs 12.9L/100km).

Our fleet of P2 XC70's have got down to the high 7L/100km range in the multiple ones we have had.

Saying the V8 doesn't have issues is a straight up lie, specially if you do not have a hoist.
On top of the idlers that fail and destroy the front engine cover (it is easier to pull the engine to replace if you have a hoist). The alternator is expensive and a bitch to change. The valve covers leak (usually onto the alternator)- That's a 4 hour job. Upper engine oil pans leaking (remove the subframe). Rear main seals leak, the connecting sleeve seals leak. All require dropping the subrame, removing exhaust manifolds.

But sure, the SI6 is a piece of ****
Don't think a POS & you have a way better sample size/inside track in adverse climate.

V8 ALT is a BITCH!

IDK if the leak is just slow here, or what, but at least you don't have to change the alt very often here (moderate marine climate similar to inland Vancouver)...maybe it's that dry cold that makes stuff shrivel up there sooner/alt life shorter also?

I've yet to attempt the front cover, so far always caught the tensioners in time (plenty of warning).
I'm curious though!
I've seen a couple V8 XC90 with the tensioners ripped off the front of for $350 (scrap) now, not too trashed really/nice otherwise for what they are really.
Doesn't look easy at all, but at that price for the right low mileage/nice example, I'd be tempted to suffer.
moth------>flame/buglight *BZZZZZZZOT*
Used cars with one big problem (main fuse/doesn't run/immobile at most ideally ) with records for dirt nothing/"can't go wrong" price, not a million little problems/abuse seem preferable.

Serious question:
How many week(ends) of dead XC90/S80 V8 /how hairbrained and moronic is it to attempt front cover replacement/repair in your avg. joe garage/$1 pays first months rent storage unit/shack without a lift/fairly generic tools (battery ratchet/cordless impacts/decent basics/air compressor/decent floor jack, engine support bar/overhead gantry block & tackle (beam in barn)/decent fluroescent lights), but no lift / giant wall/chest of volvo special tools shade-tree(ish) style?

Definitely have to beg for a lift, but I sort a think that of most-all the WWD AWD volvos...wouldn't want to deal with a turbo drain or the like on a T5 or T6 without.
V8's probably worse, trust you there.
Don't have to perform repairs all that often, but anything reaching up from below on those is ridiculously tight.

On the V8 I've only seen the front, & over time, rear crank seal leak significantly and valve covers sloooooooowly.
There are quite a few with 3-400K miles on them now virtually trouble free compared to their other counterparts, but cramped to repair.
Have yet to see the upper pan leak much/at all.

Weirdest V8 problem I've seen is the swollen rubber on the front crank damper from a leaky front main and sparking to the front cover from rubbing like a flint.

Not a real lead foot and it doesn't get real cold or hot here, XC90 get bad mileage for me no matter what.
I figure at least have an under-stressed V8, not a boosted thing (no heat, no turbos to wear out/burn oil or have suffered with infrequent oil changes).
~low 20s highway with any of the engines, I get ~17mpg city with the T5, 3.2 or V8 in traffic (XC90). Car's kind of a pig to pick up & slow down I think/expected better.

V8's worse, but at least for me combined, it's *almost* within random chance / statistical error worse (1mpg), but just under 2mpg worse (little outside statistical error)...it's an SUV, what do you expect?
Maybe it's even worse in cold weather?
More cylinders/mass to heat up/no watercooled turbo to get the coolant to OP temp instantly will make winter fuel econ terrible without a block heater I'd imagine.
That's certainly nice with the K-jet/non-IC 240Turbo w/water cooled turbo:winter warm-up time basically non-existent;no winter fuel econ loss worth mentioning.
I'd de-intercool the car for winter use.
No power loss at 3500ft-4000ft central plains elevation with a turbo car is probably nice too.
Near sea level in a humid/damp marine gloomy climate (50 degree ocean temp + or - 20 at most basically), N/A and more displacement is probably fine/preferable compared to turbocharging for cost of upkeep/operation for equivalent power, as it pertains to gasoline engines, in theory (YMMV...so many variables).

I'm surprised with how inexpensive batteries & giant power supplies are now that cars don't have a block heater to run automatically off the car's battery to prevent engine wear/winter fuel econ loss as standard and lower emissions.

I sort of doubt it'd be any meaningfully worse than the boosted motors in a car that was lighter/FWD without the XC taller tires.

XC70 with the boosted motors have all gotten atrocious city mileage as well...big tires and heavy car I guess?
Hwy econ with all tip top/tires inflated properly/no disappointment. ~26-28 like you'd expect for a modern mid-size car.
But haven't driven them long term with years and years of data-points from brand new/dealership credentialed training (voice of the ignorant masses).

Hard to gauge, I don't *think* I'm being a lead foot/trying to focus group bias the tests really...I know they're much faster/more effortless than I'm used to, but the 240s that I feel like I beat on get 21-22 on the original stock/skinny tires city. Haven't had someone shadow me in an AWD P2 XC or recorded myself to see if I'm in-fact be drag racing/6 car lengths ahead of myself in the 240 and then coming to a screeching halt in the XCs I've had briefly.
I don't *think* that's the case really, but it's qualitative/anecdotal.

I bet if I had a boost gauge and drove slightly deliberately out of boost most always, I'd put up much better numbers without trying very hard/being inconvenienced really at all.
It's just so odd...I don't *think* I'm driving like speed racer in boost all the time.

I just chalk it up to big baloony tires/heavy wheels to get going, terrible mileage using any boost regularly & heav(ish) car I guess?
Blocks are short in portland, traffic now can be as brutal as SF bay area in some places, short tall pointy hills on the west side of the river/speed traps(police state, if only for out of state plates on expensive cars...we can only dream) (have to use the brakes/engine braking on frequent descents) to obey speed limits.

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Old 08-08-2020, 06:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kjets On a Plane View Post
Don't think a POS & you have a way better sample size/inside track in adverse climate.
It is and I do.


V8 ALT is a BITCH!

It is

IDK if the leak is just slow here, or what, but at least you don't have to change the alt very often here (moderate marine climate similar to inland Vancouver)...maybe it's that dry cold that makes stuff shrivel up there sooner/alt life shorter also?

We don't change them all the time. They seem to last around 200K Km. My friends in BC say they actually do them more than we do.

I've yet to attempt the front cover, so far always caught the tensioners in time (plenty of warning).

I've done a couple, but not in a few years.

I'm curious though!
I've seen a couple V8 XC90 with the tensioners ripped off the front of for $350 (scrap) now, not too trashed really/nice otherwise for what they are really.
Doesn't look easy at all, but at that price for the right low mileage/nice example, I'd be tempted to suffer.
moth------>flame/buglight *BZZZZZZZOT*
Used cars with one big problem (main fuse/doesn't run/immobile at most ideally ) with records for dirt nothing/"can't go wrong" price, not a million little problems/abuse seem preferable.


Serious question:
How many week(ends) of dead XC90/S80 V8 /how hairbrained and moronic is it to attempt front cover replacement/repair in your avg. joe garage/$1 pays first months rent storage unit/shack without a lift/fairly generic tools (battery ratchet/cordless impacts/decent basics/air compressor/decent floor jack, engine support bar/overhead gantry block & tackle (beam in barn)/decent fluroescent lights), but no lift / giant wall/chest of volvo special tools shade-tree(ish) style?

No special tools required. You can do it in the car. It might take a while, but it is doable.
The last couple, I just drop engine/tranny on subframe and do it on the subframe jack. I would buy one and do it on the side if you can find them failed for cheap. A little efford and it will be a nice pay day


Definitely have to beg for a lift, but I sort a think that of most-all the WWD AWD volvos...wouldn't want to deal with a turbo drain or the like on a T5 or T6 without.

I've never done a turbo drain on an SI6. I haven't on a modern (newer than p80) 5 cylinder either. I think they sorted that out at some point.

V8's probably worse, trust you there.
Don't have to perform repairs all that often, but anything reaching up from below on those is ridiculously tight.

Everything is tight on a V8.

On the V8 I've only seen the front, & over time, rear crank seal leak significantly and valve covers sloooooooowly.
There are quite a few with 3-400K miles on them now virtually trouble free compared to their other counterparts, but cramped to repair.
Have yet to see the upper pan leak much/at all.

Honestly, I haven't seen many high mileage V8's. Most of the 300K-500K engines that come in are the SI6. The V8 usually needs something quoted, but its always labour intensive so people just leave them until they fail

Weirdest V8 problem I've seen is the swollen rubber on the front crank damper from a leaky front main and sparking to the front cover from rubbing like a flint.

I've never seen this. Now that I think about it, I've never seen a front crank leak on a V8

Not a real lead foot and it doesn't get real cold or hot here, XC90 get bad mileage for me no matter what.
I figure at least have an under-stressed V8, not a boosted thing (no heat, no turbos to wear out/burn oil or have suffered with infrequent oil changes).
~low 20s highway with any of the engines, I get ~17mpg city with the T5, 3.2 or V8 in traffic (XC90). Car's kind of a pig to pick up & slow down I think/expected better.

V8's worse, but at least for me combined, it's *almost* within random chance / statistical error worse (1mpg), but just under 2mpg worse (little outside statistical error)...it's an SUV, what do you expect?
Maybe it's even worse in cold weather?

Cold weather will always make mileage worse. But the V8 was always 2-3L more per 100Km than the 5 cylinder we got rid of. The XC70 P2s in my family get down to the high 7s on the highway between here and Kamloops (though the mountains).

More cylinders/mass to heat up/no watercooled turbo to get the coolant to OP temp instantly will make winter fuel econ terrible without a block heater I'd imagine.
That's certainly nice with the K-jet/non-IC 240Turbo w/water cooled turbo:winter warm-up time basically non-existent;no winter fuel econ loss worth mentioning.
I'd de-intercool the car for winter use.


The early 5 cylinders in the P2 actually had a modification from Volvo to block the cold air intake pipe then cut a hole in the engine side so it pulled hot air. This was from Volvo back in the early 2000s

No power loss at 3500ft-4000ft central plains elevation with a turbo car is probably nice too.
Near sea level in a humid/damp marine gloomy climate (50 degree ocean temp + or - 20 at most basically), N/A and more displacement is probably fine/preferable compared to turbocharging for cost of upkeep/operation for equivalent power, as it pertains to gasoline engines, in theory (YMMV...so many variables).


XC70 with the boosted motors have all gotten atrocious city mileage as well...big tires and heavy car I guess?
Hwy econ with all tip top/tires inflated properly/no disappointment. ~26-28 like you'd expect for a modern mid-size car.
But haven't driven them long term with years and years of data-points from brand new/dealership credentialed training (voice of the ignorant masses).

You should try and find a clean one and give it a go. Most of our XC70 customers were former 245/745 owners. They've now moved onto the V60CC if they're still alive. My dads gone from 544s-new a 2015 V60 Sport 5cylinder. He loves it, but still says the P2 XC70's he had were the best cars he has ever owned
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:45 PM   #22
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Will try a P2 at some point.

I miss that the hood doesn't open vertically on springs like the P80 & earlier and other stuff they cheaped out on somewhat. Hopefully the hood mostly stays closed anyway. Turning radius and lines of sight/visibility out of the cockpit are a bit of a P2 turn-off, also. As well as the ugly crocs body styling...maybe they'll look pretty one day like the cared for plain-jane 140s in good shape do now in some years? The 7/9s haven't, but P2, not sure, jury's out.
Stiffer chassis than P80 is nice.

That said, live somewhere where there's really no *need* to own a car for transportation/it need not have any peak commute hour miles put on it or heavy use really, so they have to have a giant stack of records/be near scrap price to justify it/be pretty enticing.

Sort-if Cali-nomics, but more for the right reasons: don't need a car that badly, too many volvos here, they're all kind of rough/dragging prices on nice examples down, kool-aid models rarely purchased new.
as opposed to draconian state/smog regulations, long commutes beating cars up/throw away/status symbol consumer culture.

Will look a bit more for the kool-aid versions of P2 & P3 for a deal with one big problem and I'm encouraged though; Late T5s, Rs, V8s, or maybe a 2015 polestar if I can find one?
SI6 doesn't seem bad as a viable option.

The rest are so difficult to unload for any money here & super trashed (not always interior/cloudy without a lot of UV damage/trashed fast food interiors, but slammed around like a USPS LLV/Jeep in brutal stop & go traffic / parked with their bumpers often is the MO...

...honestly the 240s hold up a lot better with that treatment:
Black bumpers, shorter gearing for in-town, simple engine, skinny little portland/pre car/model-A era roads, easier to see out of from all angles, short blocks, tight turning radius, lots of ground clearance/14" steelies with tall tires for giant car-eating potholes/steep little skinny carriage house driveways. AWD not often needed.

More creature comforts/body panels abundant in your color in junkyards/OE mass production quality-controlled/lemon-law/class-action legal recourse mandate new parts would be nice going newer.
& fully depreciated/don't worry about it/use-value.
At least they made them a while true to stodgy volvo fashion without changing the body every 2 years;
someone backs into your door?
Go find another one for ~10 model years 2001-2010 abundantly/low(ish) stress.
There's some mercy.

Interesting about the Canada warm-air intake.
I suspect that's more to do with intercoolers icing up/avoiding liability than helping with warmup time/economy/long term engine wear.
At least, even with the perpetual little boost leak standard on the P80 IC, iced up ICs would happen on P80s/were a known issue in places like Edmonton, St. John & winter-peg etc.

Having had the IC/throttle body ice up before re-routing the piping back to non-IC operation & melting the ice, that's really no fun & possibly life-threatening if you're 100+ miles from anywhere in the dead of winter and bone-head-edly didn't prepare as well as you should have for being stranded. The warm-up time longevity & economy concern & intercooler ice-up concern comes from experience.

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Old 08-08-2020, 11:24 PM   #23
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The timing cover job is a pain, but definitely possible with basic tools and no lift. It took me probably 4-5 days REALLY taking my time and working on other stuff as I usually do. I could probably do it in a weekend next time.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:01 AM   #24
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I think 3.2 P3 or 2.5T P2. Invest in a portable vida/dice setup just in case. Forgo AWD unless you really need it.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Oof...those Audi’s are so thick in our junkyards and all totally done.
Labor times are ridiculous and the germans/EU thought that they'd conquered recycled plastique.
Searching Audi & under $3k on CL is hysterically hilarious here...
...all pretty new, all with some repair that seems major that takes upteen-bajillion hours to complete with some special tools/plastic in the way, or old and totally trashed / runs sometimes with electrical gremlins.
Condolences.
THIS! Even on the Audi Forums they acknowledge that one big repair basically totals the car. Have mercy if you own the S4 w 4.2!!! Not many B6 or B7 A4s FS here lately, I suspect JY. They have direct injection issues with the VW 2.0T cam lobe plus the carbon build up from DI.

Quote:
Most of the 300K-500K engines that come in are the SI6.
Nice for the SI6!

Quote:
still says the P2 XC70's he had were the best cars he has ever owned
They are not a WOW car, but do everything smoothly and in comfort.

Quote:
Forgo AWD unless you really need it.
Agreed, I just wish there were more V70s to choose from out there!

Seems as though prices are nutz at the moment. May have to wait a couple months for the prices to come down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAWHxZ7GrPg Even the private sellers are loosing their minds on price.
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