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Old 04-25-2021, 12:45 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
8V.

Springs are F6LZ-6513-AB. Retainers AL3Z-6514-A. If you do this, you do have to be cautious to not nick any part of the spring that moves. Also make sure to remove the sharp edge that you'll create when you open it up. Just open it until the retainer sits flush on top of the spring.

Seat pressure on the Ford spring is listed at 65 lbs installed at 1.440", which I think is just a hair shorter than what it ends up installed at in the 530 head. Ford rate is 250lbs/in, just a tick up from the Volvo 230lbs/in. This is all based on the 26mm spring.

Come to think of it, we have a few engines running around with this setup. My daily has been running around with these for probably 75 or 80 thousand miles.
Thanks! Really helpful. Where did you buy your parts? I noticed the spring part number is "Valve Springs" as in plural, so is it $18 for multiple springs or is it just a single spring?

Did you use a little drum sander attachment on your dremel?
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Old 04-26-2021, 11:32 AM   #27
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They come in a pack of 4.

Yes, but not the small one. There's one that JUST fits when you're starting with it. 1/2", maybe?
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Old 04-26-2021, 11:48 AM   #28
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They come in a pack of 4.

Yes, but not the small one. There's one that JUST fits when you're starting with it. 1/2", maybe?
Super! I'm guessing they do the same with the retainer hats, too?

Alright, I have plenty of those sanding drums! Thank you for all the help on this!
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Old 04-26-2021, 04:36 PM   #29
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I asked a Ford dealer on Ebay how many springs he was selling for $25. He said it was only one...

Tasca parts and similar has it listed for $18, but now I'm unsure, because buying a pack of four direct from Ford is about $118! Any idea on this, shoestring?

I'm wondering if they hiked their price up on these, and I'm just too late.
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Old 04-26-2021, 04:47 PM   #30
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Last time I bought these they were about 4 bucks a piece.

Holy smokes I just confirmed with local Ford store, yeah, MSRP $28 ea.

I'd try to track them down by application, maybe you can get them from PAC or something. Brian Tooley sells some, but the spring rate is more than you would need for a daily.

This is causing me anxiety.

Now what do I do?

Last edited by shoestring; 04-26-2021 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 04-26-2021, 05:53 PM   #31
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Last time I bought these they were about 4 bucks a piece.

Holy smokes I just confirmed with local Ford store, yeah, MSRP $28 ea.

I'd try to track them down by application, maybe you can get them from PAC or something. Brian Tooley sells some, but the spring rate is more than you would need for a daily.

This is causing me anxiety.

Now what do I do?
I'll keep searching for something that doesn't kill my budget.

I may end up going with the Volvo OE 29mm service kit. That's about 80-90 shipped for a set of 8. More expensive, but if theres no other choice..
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Old 04-26-2021, 05:57 PM   #32
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Sort of related question, can old valve springs be tested in any way? If they have the same measured rates as they should have new, could they be OK to reuse?
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Old 04-26-2021, 06:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
I'd try to track them down by application, maybe you can get them from PAC or something. Brian Tooley sells some, but the spring rate is more than you would need for a daily.

This is causing me anxiety.

Now what do I do?
Pac-1223 is the lowest spec 4v 4.6 spring PAC sells.
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Old 04-26-2021, 06:21 PM   #34
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Sort of related question, can old valve springs be tested in any way? If they have the same measured rates as they should have new, could they be OK to reuse?
There's a spec in the Bentley repair manual that covers this. It's based on the spring free length.

And Yes, reusing springs is fine.
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Old 04-26-2021, 06:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
I'd try to track them down by application, maybe you can get them from PAC or something. Brian Tooley sells some, but the spring rate is more than you would need for a daily.

This is causing me anxiety.

Now what do I do?
The BTR ones are nice. I've used them on a few 16v heads. Getting a retainer to fit with a 8mm valve stem is possible as well. I just haven't found an off the shelf version that works without modifying the retainer.

I have a cheapish single spring kit that I offer for $150, and they're 90-100lb on the seat and good for 15mm of lift. Includes chromoly retainers and spring seats to properly locate the springs. I can also do Titanium retainers for a bit more.
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Old 04-26-2021, 07:04 PM   #36
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There's a spec in the Bentley repair manual that covers this. It's based on the spring free length.

And Yes, reusing springs is fine.
I will have to check my spring free length. Although, I doubt they are in spec after over 250k.
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Old 04-26-2021, 07:10 PM   #37
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The BTR ones are nice. I've used them on a few 16v heads. Getting a retainer to fit with a 8mm valve stem is possible as well. I just haven't found an off the shelf version that works without modifying the retainer.

I have a cheapish single spring kit that I offer for $150, and they're 90-100lb on the seat and good for 15mm of lift. Includes chromoly retainers and spring seats to properly locate the springs. I can also do Titanium retainers for a bit more.
Is this kit is for the 8v heads? I am still trying to figure out how performance valvetrains work. Volvo 4 bangers are much different than the LS specs I am used to messing around with.

I could be wrong, but your kit sounds a bit excessive for my A cam daily driver.
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Old 04-26-2021, 07:13 PM   #38
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The biggest issue I have heard of with the stock springs is if the car has sat for a while, the spring can get rusty and gets pitting. When you get the car back to life, the spring will fatigue from the pitting. If the free length is fine and there's no rust, those springs will go and go.
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Old 04-26-2021, 07:27 PM   #39
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The biggest issue I have heard of with the stock springs is if the car has sat for a while, the spring can get rusty and gets pitting. When you get the car back to life, the spring will fatigue from the pitting. If the free length is fine and there's no rust, those springs will go and go.
Okay, thank you for the information. I will look them each over.
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Old 04-26-2021, 09:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by OldCarNewTricks View Post
Is this kit is for the 8v heads? I am still trying to figure out how performance valvetrains work. Volvo 4 bangers are much different than the LS specs I am used to messing around with.

I could be wrong, but your kit sounds a bit excessive for my A cam daily driver.
Yeah, it's for the 8v heads. I also have a setup for 16v heads too, but most people don't need it.

Valve spring forces are much lower when you're not moving a pushrod and rocker arm around too
In general, as long as the spring isn't close to a natural fequency the same rate is good for an extra few thousand rpms or so. For instance, a spring used in a pushrod motor at 6500 can be used in a 8v redblock to 8k+.
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Old 04-26-2021, 09:33 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
The biggest issue I have heard of with the stock springs is if the car has sat for a while, the spring can get rusty and gets pitting. When you get the car back to life, the spring will fatigue from the pitting. If the free length is fine and there's no rust, those springs will go and go.
Rusty springs go straight into the recycle bin, every single time
Heck, even suspension springs will break if they're being used close to coil bind and have rust. The safety factor on a spring is really low for most applications.
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Old 04-27-2021, 02:13 PM   #42
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@culberro, any qualms about running the square tooth belt with the BTR et al springs?

Also, can you put the rally car back, chubby Howard the Duck freaks me out.
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Old 04-27-2021, 02:27 PM   #43
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@culberro, any qualms about running the square tooth belt with the BTR et al springs?

Also, can you put the rally car back, chubby Howard the Duck freaks me out.
No issues with the square tooth. I like to get the belts just a bit more snug than the tensioner can.
The old 8v rally car was square tooth with dual springs that were 150lbs on the seat. No issues with the belt slipping ever, even over 8k.

I'll find something else for an avatar... I just wanted to scare the children
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Old 04-27-2021, 05:30 PM   #44
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I guess that's very true. That springs have different outcomes in OHC vs. push rod.

The BTR springs were the cheapest I've found so far.

The 242 was sitting in open weather for a fair amount of time. I'll check the springs carefully for any rust.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:34 PM   #45
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So if I were to put BTR springs in my car, would it actually lose low end, but gain high end through higher RPMs?

Trying to learn a bit more.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:55 PM   #46
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So if I were to put BTR springs in my car, would it actually lose low end, but gain high end through higher RPMs?

Trying to learn a bit more.
Nothing would change...
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Old 04-27-2021, 10:21 PM   #47
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Nothing would change...
Okay. I was going off some forum discussion I found (not TB) and that's what they were saying. Clearly misinformation.

Springs change nothing, except allow for more aggressive camshafts and the like? But on the opposing side, the stronger the spring, the more potential wear on all the moving parts.

Then there's benefit for lighter retainers and springs, as well, and that's just potential for higher RPM ramp speed?
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Old 04-28-2021, 01:48 PM   #48
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No performance difference at all, should just facilitate higher RPM by virtue of better valve control/lighter valvetrain mass. Unless you're already floating valves...

Camshaft ramp speed is more a function of bucket diameter/design than anything.
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Old 04-28-2021, 02:56 PM   #49
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Okay. I was going off some forum discussion I found (not TB) and that's what they were saying. Clearly misinformation.
If you're running really heavy springs on an improperly setup pushrod engine, you can definitely reduce lift and duration by a significant amount.
On a direct acting OHC engine, you're only dealing with a slight (and I mean very slight) frictional loss.

Also, with a rocker arm ratio of ~1.5:1, the force acting on the lifter is 50% more than what is acting on the valve, and the lifter is 1/2 the diameter of a Volvo bucket. That means you have significantly higher contact stress and wear on something like a flat tappet V8.

All that to say, that on a Volvo 8v the likelihood of destroying a cam from too stiff of springs is almost impossible.
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Old 04-28-2021, 03:35 PM   #50
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Free length? Whatever happened to using a valve spring pressure tester?
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