home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2021, 09:58 PM   #1
2 old for this
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Amarillo and the Sanger de Cristo mountians
Default Hard to stop after new oe pads

Replaced the front brake pads on my 262 and now it almost will not stop. All was good until the new Volvo pads. First thought was that they needed some use. The 262 has 1992 anti lock brakes that worked as designed. Anyone else had this happen?
2 old for this is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 10:13 PM   #2
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Did you just install new pads on rotors that have not been resurfaced?
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 10:51 PM   #3
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
install new pads on rotors that have not been resurfaced?
I've done it for years...without an issue.


OP: Has your brake booster failed? Is brake light bulb working? Jack up right or left front wheel, and rotate tire while someone presses down on brake pedal.
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 11:21 PM   #4
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
I've done it for years...without an issue.


OP: Has your brake booster failed? Is brake light bulb working? Jack up right or left front wheel, and rotate tire while someone presses down on brake pedal.
Resurfacing or replacement is HIGHLY recommended in most cases. I learned my lesson when I did this to my 240 the first time. Didn't have the money to do it right. It warped my rotors. Apparently this is usually because the mating of new pads to unsurfaced rotors can cause extreme heat. At least, that is what my automotive professor told me.
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 01:40 AM   #5
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

All the modern brake pads need to be properly bedded in. Putting new pads on used rotors that have a polished surface is begging for poor braking.

https://www.autozone.com/diy/brakes/bedding-brakes

Last edited by 2manyturbos; 05-31-2021 at 01:51 AM..
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 07:44 AM   #6
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCarNewTricks View Post
Resurfacing or replacement is HIGHLY recommended...is what my automotive professor told me.
I'm not aggressive with brake usage...I don't smoke them when coming to a red light or stop sign...and I attempt to pay attention so I don't have to smoke them.

Warped rotor can also be due to uneven torquing on lug nuts.

Glazed pads/shoes will decrease breaking performance.

Many years ago, they had "brake specials" where they slapped a new set of pads/shoes on vehicles.
=============

2manyturbos cite:

PRO TIP:
It's important to avoid coming to a complete stop during the hard-braking stage as it's possible to melt brake pads against hot rotors. Of course, should a deer, pedestrian, or Sasquatch run onto the road, feel free to mash the brake pedal. Safety first!
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 09:57 AM   #7
apachechef
Burnt Sierra Madre
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Joe Smith, Klendathu
Default

Did you put the friction side towards the discs?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lummert View Post
Dammit, Lummert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse8931 View Post
Well keep us updated on how your dumbass plan goes.
apachechef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 10:23 AM   #8
2 old for this
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Amarillo and the Sanger de Cristo mountians
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachechef View Post
Did you put the friction side towards the discs?
Spot on !! Is that the cause of all grinding? No I did not have a senior moment. But being in the automotive service business for over 60 years I have seen worse.
2 old for this is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 11:59 AM   #9
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Burnish the pads
__________________
No Start Thread
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 12:04 PM   #10
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

84B23F, I'm not attacking you or your driving habits, just "parroting" information.

I honestly believe that my rotors all had some serious miles on them. They all have a little "lip" on the edge. That's probably what killed them is that they were too thin in the first place. Live and learn!

Is your pedal mushy at all? Any abnormal give?
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 12:30 PM   #11
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCarNewTricks View Post
rotors
Replacing brake calipers and rotors is the way to do it right. If brake caliper's piston is sticking, it will smoke the pad, and can cause rotor warpage.

I drive rural miles, with sand/dirt getting into pads/rotors; sand/dirt will etch out rotors' surfaces. On Semi-Trucks, you can see where sand/dirt had done a fine job of resurfacing the drums.

Those who drive in big cities tend to overbrake, which cooks the pads/rotors.

If a person assumes they have no brakes, they "plan" their stops via using the engine for slowing down mostly, and then apply light brake pressure; but in big cities, those road ragers will become upset

>Is your pedal mushy at all?

Once in a blue moon I'll brake hard for a deer...brakes seem to work OK
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 12:31 PM   #12
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Burnish the pads
Stuck brake calipers cooked the pads
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 01:34 PM   #13
dbarton
Dejected by Volvo
 
dbarton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North of Dallas
Default

I've seen this exact thing happen when the installer forgets to degrease the rotor surface (shipping grease to keep rotor from rusting in storage). But if you've been in the auto service business for 60 years, you probably already know this is required.
Dave
__________________


'84 242ti, fourth owner, mine since 2003. Always garaged since brand new. Old-school rounds because I like. B21FT, SDS EFI/IGN, TD04HL-15G, T5Z trans with modded 0.73 OD, 3.91 diff, unmodified G80.
Volvo Ambivalence of Volvo Enthusiast Community: prancingmoose.com/#novolvo
Dave's Volvo Page: davebarton.com
240 Mods and Fixes Pages: 240turbo.com/volvo240mods.html
dbarton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 02:02 PM   #14
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
I'm not aggressive with brake usage...I don't smoke them when coming to a red light or stop sign...and I attempt to pay attention so I don't have to smoke them.

Warped rotor can also be due to uneven torquing on lug nuts.

Glazed pads/shoes will decrease breaking performance.

Many years ago, they had "brake specials" where they slapped a new set of pads/shoes on vehicles.
=============

2manyturbos cite:

PRO TIP:
It's important to avoid coming to a complete stop during the hard-braking stage as it's possible to melt brake pads against hot rotors. Of course, should a deer, pedestrian, or Sasquatch run onto the road, feel free to mash the brake pedal. Safety first!

Your lack of experience is showing. A friend of mine wrecked his Corvette on a Hill Climb, first run 3 years ago because he skipped the bedding process. He's no amateur. He just didn't realize how important that step is to having excellent braking right from the start. It was an expensive mistake. A month ago I made sure to properly bed my new track pads before taking my Mustang GT to an event. Even with freshly machined rotors the first few stops were unimpressive. By the time I did the 10 60-10 and 10 80-10 mph mph rapid deceleration "stops" recommended by the manufacturer the car braked like it hit a brick wall. It is an important step with ceramic brake pads. Just throwing on a set of pads works, eventually. Hopefully, you don't rear end somebody before the brakes start working like they should. The first time I really became aware how important this step is happened when I took a 940 wagon out for a test drive after installing a set of Posi-Quiet ceramic pads on freshly machined rotors. The first couple of stops really didn't happen. The level of braking was almost non-existent/scary. I thought something must be wrong with the installation. I took it back to my shop and checked the brakes visually. Nothing out of place. I took it back out on the road and followed the Posi-Quiet recommended bedding process and by the time I got back to the shop the 940 would plant my face on the windshield braking. Nice and straight, no fade.

Perhaps, actually reading what the OP posted might help. "All was good until the new Volvo pads."
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 07:22 PM   #15
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Your lack of experience is showing.
I noted above that to do it right requires all related parts to be replaced...cause the caliper's piston can screw your pooch.

Do read the first paragraph of your cite - "For most folks, the gradual wearing-in of your brake pads and rotors will be performed through natural driving, but if you want your pads to perform great right out of the gate, and minimize potential issues, doing a procedure known as ďbedding inĒ is extremely helpful. "
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 01:24 AM   #16
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
I noted above that to do it right requires all related parts to be replaced...cause the caliper's piston can screw your pooch.

Do read the first paragraph of your cite - "For most folks, the gradual wearing-in of your brake pads and rotors will be performed through natural driving, but if you want your pads to perform great right out of the gate, and minimize potential issues, doing a procedure known as “bedding in” is extremely helpful. "

I already stated that above. Eventually, they will work properly. With some racing pads, not so. Failure to properly break them in can lead to almost no brakes.

Read what the pad manufacturer has to say about installing new pads.

https://centricparts.com/getmedia/fd...e-8-2018_1.pdf

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec....jsp?techid=85

Last edited by 2manyturbos; 06-01-2021 at 02:08 AM..
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 03:13 AM   #17
Toybox
mostly lurking
 
Toybox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Nor Cal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachechef View Post
Did you put the friction side towards the discs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 old for this View Post
Spot on !! Is that the cause of all grinding? No I did not have a senior moment. But being in the automotive service business for over 60 years I have seen worse.
You've seen worse than installing the metal side toward the discs? Do tell!

Am ready for story time. Sometimes these are the best teachings...
Toybox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 07:58 AM   #18
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
I already stated that above. Eventually, they will work properly.
I drive on dusty country roads, which means the dust and sand ends up on drums/rotors; so when someone speaks of "bedding," I know dust/sand will "eat" pad "coating" transferred to rotor/drum.

Keep this in mind - "The bedding procedure removes dirt and debris from the rotor surface and pad surface and transfers a thin layer of the brake pad...In order to get the most out of your brakes"


If a pad manufacture suggests bedding, then follow their instructions; but, I recently bought a set of Volvo pads, and braking is not an issue with them. I may not have 100% braking efficiency, but I suspect after "bedding," brake efficiency decreases with time...this bedding is part commercial hype for increased sales revenue and part truth for a given set of pads.


OP's issue may be burned pads, due to stuck piston or improper break-in
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 10:31 AM   #19
kyote
Living The Dream
 
kyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: La Porte TX
Default

I have always been a break the glaze with 80 grit, then 10-0, 20-0, 30-0, 40-0, 50-0, 40-0, 30-0, 20-0, 10-0 hard stops then a cooling cruise kinda guy. If you don't smell brakes by the time you're done you're doing it wrong. You can feel them start to grip as you do it.

On brake rotor "warping", in my experience, it is usually more an uneven deposit of pad material on the rotor causing pulsation rather than an actual "warpage," so to speak. Usually caused by infrequent operation and sitting in the driveway.
__________________
-78 242 tic, a kyotefab/willettrun joint
-83 245 tic, daily in progress
-14 F150 FX4 3.5 EcoBeast (Wife's)
kyote is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 12:56 PM   #20
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
I drive on dusty country roads, which means the dust and sand ends up on drums/rotors; so when someone speaks of "bedding," I know dust/sand will "eat" pad "coating" transferred to rotor/drum.

Keep this in mind - "The bedding procedure removes dirt and debris from the rotor surface and pad surface and transfers a thin layer of the brake pad...In order to get the most out of your brakes"


If a pad manufacture suggests bedding, then follow their instructions; but, I recently bought a set of Volvo pads, and braking is not an issue with them. I may not have 100% braking efficiency, but I suspect after "bedding," brake efficiency decreases with time...this bedding is part commercial hype for increased sales revenue and part truth for a given set of pads.


OP's issue may be burned pads, due to stuck piston or improper break-in
Just quit with the miss information trying to cover up your lack of understanding. With the Posi-Quiet pads the bedding process is essential. The stopping distance is nearly double what you would expect until the proceedure is completed. I just installed a set on my F250 a week ago. Did you even read their White Paper on the topic that I linked?

I really donít care that you put in a set of stock pads and blah, blah, blah, with the sand and dust. Thatís absolute bull****. The pads actually last longer when properly broken in. It isnít about a manufacturer wanting you to wear them out so they can sell you more. Itís about them wanting you to have excellent brakes so that you come back and buy their product again and again.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 02:15 PM   #21
84B23F
Board Member
 
84B23F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
miss information
Show me a longitudinal study that evaluates and supports your position. Sales BS is sales BS.

Fact - For years, they slapped them on for consumer vehicles.

Fact - "If you want your car to stop faster, an intuitive start may be to upgrade your brakes. While it may sound logical, for everyday driving it will probably have no effect on your actual stopping distance. Brakes are the system responsible for turning the kinetic energy of your moving car into heat (science talk for slowing it down), however the carís tires are ultimately responsible for how quickly this occurs."
84B23F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 02:21 PM   #22
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Just quit with the miss information trying to cover up your lack of understanding. With the Posi-Quiet pads the bedding process is essential. The stopping distance is nearly double what you would expect until the proceedure is completed. I just installed a set on my F250 a week ago. Did you even read their White Paper on the topic that I linked?

I really donít care that you put in a set of stock pads and blah, blah, blah, with the sand and dust. Thatís absolute bull****. The pads actually last longer when properly broken in. It isnít about a manufacturer wanting you to wear them out so they can sell you more. Itís about them wanting you to have excellent brakes so that you come back and buy their product again and again.
Roy is correct on this. The longest life comes from two matched surfaces. Sand, dust and dirt shouldn't cause issues, as everyone in areas with any moisture experiences oxidation on rotors, which is also wiped by the pads during use. The manufacturer accounts for this in their pad design.

The reason they include instruction for procedure is for safety. Which is also why they recommend roads that are clear for the driver during the brake bedding procedure: stopping power is reduced.

........

My rotors warped because I tried bedding brake pads on old, rusty rotors that are far out of spec. Thinner material warps more easily.
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 02:49 PM   #23
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Rotors don't warp.
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 02:59 PM   #24
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Rotors don't warp.
The surface can become uneven, which is what I'm referring to in this case.
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 03:01 PM   #25
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
Show me a longitudinal study that evaluates and supports your position. Sales BS is sales BS.

Fact - For years, they slapped them on for consumer vehicles.

Fact - "If you want your car to stop faster, an intuitive start may be to upgrade your brakes. While it may sound logical, for everyday driving it will probably have no effect on your actual stopping distance. Brakes are the system responsible for turning the kinetic energy of your moving car into heat (science talk for slowing it down), however the carís tires are ultimately responsible for how quickly this occurs."
Just stop with the nonsense. Admit it when you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. The crap you post could get someone injured. Try reading the Whitepaper I posted. Do you even read? My friend did $5000+ damage to his Corvette because he didn't think it was critical that he bed in his new track pads. He drives the car on the edge 100% of the time. I do the same with my Mustang GT. Had I sent out the 940 I installed the Posi-Quiet pads on and the customer rear ended someone, or worse, ran over someone I would have been liable. The Posi-Quiet pads I installed on my F250 could have caused an accident the first trip out because my rig weighs close to 16,000 lb when I'm carrying my camper and have my GT on my car trailer. Most of the braking is done with the front 2 discs on that set up.

I don't give a rat's ass what was done years ago. You can't even buy the types of brake pads that you are describing anymore.

One more double down post from you with this kind of nonsense and you are going to take a day or two off. I'm not kidding. I've had enough of your GoodleFu nonsense on here to last a lifetime.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.