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Old 05-29-2021, 03:30 AM   #26
hk 40
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Hi Jussi,
If you're out there I'm curious about something. Im curious about the valve overlap of the cams your friends use and their ignitions. Are they wasted spark ignitions? And if so what is the valve overlap of the cams they are running with them?

Regards
Hubert

Last edited by hk 40; 05-29-2021 at 03:59 AM.. Reason: editing
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Old 05-29-2021, 09:28 AM   #27
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I'd think it would be even more interesting problem to run wasted spark on the T6 with much more than what we'd call a non emission cam meaning one with zero or virtually no valve overlap. I see it as a problem to run it with anything else. If your friends have any thoughts on this please contact me openly or through my pm. I have also posted this question to SK. These things are never discussed in the American phone world. You've been added to my contact list so you can get through for private discussion if you prefer.

Regards
Hubert

Last edited by hk 40; 05-29-2021 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:50 AM   #28
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Hmm its quiet here. Does anyone else have any bright ideas on the questions I asked about DOHC's with valve overlap and wasted spark ignitions? I get kind of nervous when I'm supposed to be in a forum of volvo and ignition experts and no answers come from questions like this. I'm sure Jussi knows and may not be available. But where is the rest of the +300 peanut gallery that always has something to say??? wats the problem? your American tuning buddies never discussed this with ya? Come on here's your opportunity to talk about something worthwhile since I know you hold all the informative keys here.....

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-31-2021, 01:28 PM   #29
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COME IN HERE RVOLVOR!!!! AND LETS TALK BUSINESS FREE OF NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS ....

Regards
Hubert
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Old 05-31-2021, 01:52 PM   #30
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What's the delay? Dont ask around what I'm talking about if you have a built t6 and are the forum fuel management and wasted spark ignitions expert you should know the answer. You gonna teach me something about my cars right?
Im waiting for you answer not anyone elses... Come on lets get on with it!!!


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Hubert
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Old 05-31-2021, 01:53 PM   #31
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Pretty sure the original thread was about cam choice. Not sure why it had to be derailed to ignition and fueling.
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Old 05-31-2021, 01:57 PM   #32
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Hmm its quiet here. Does anyone else have any bright ideas on the questions I asked about DOHC's with valve overlap and wasted spark ignitions? I get kind of nervous when I'm supposed to be in a forum of volvo and ignition experts and no answers come from questions like this. I'm sure Jussi knows and may not be available. But where is the rest of the +300 peanut gallery that always has something to say??? wats the problem? your American tuning buddies never discussed this with ya? Come on here's your opportunity to talk about something worthwhile since I know you hold all the informative keys here.....

Regards
Hubert

You can read DOHC can you not? Its no problem to start a new thread about it but who has more experience with high performance cams than people with 400 hp NA's Since you decided to come in here can you answer this very important CAM question I have posted in this thread. Im sorry if you dont realize wasted spark ignitions have to consider the cam they run with in multi valve engines in particular the T6 brings much interest .

Please share what you know about it since you are here and do not think its relevant or related to ask someone from Europe whom I'm almost positive would know.

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-31-2021, 02:03 PM   #33
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RVOLVOR I assume since you wont touch this and rather post off topic nonsense in the e thread you do not know..... Talk to me here.....why you avoiding it BRUH!!!!


Thanks for proving my point
Hubert
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Old 05-31-2021, 02:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
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RVOLVOR I assume since you wont touch this and rather post off topic nonsense in the e thread you do not know..... Talk to me here.....why you avoiding it BRUH!!!!


Thanks for proving my point
Hubert
Hubert,

All your crying about trolling on here, yet, here you are, trolling. If you ever expect to get any respect on this Forum, start earning it. Is that plain English enough for you, or, do I need to get someone to translate the message?
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Old 05-31-2021, 02:12 PM   #35
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How is it trolling to ask and expert who tell me I know nothing about these cars or how the ignition works. That is not exactly the definition of trolling u gonna protect him from his own wise mouth? Come on the guys knows something I don't right? So he or his sahibs should be able to answer me. He can ask me any TECHNICAL question he feels. I never see that as trolling . But that isnt what he does is it? You can read just like everybody else. Why you only show up here?

If you want me to remove this very relevant question as it pertains to DOHC engines for your FRIEND its certainly telling but I will do it with no issue.
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Old 05-31-2021, 02:16 PM   #36
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I guess you needed a translator. You have 3 days off to find someone to help you with that.
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Old 05-31-2021, 03:14 PM   #37
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No reply to a troll is the best approach. Im over it all.
Besides, some of us are on vacation. I was driving home.

To answer his question, you can use wasted spark on any even-number 4 stroke engine with any overlap. It has been proven by the CVT toyotas and BMWs that run variable timing lift and duration. They crank that overlap in some cases to reduce pumping losses and for high rpm action.

Back to the OP,
My opinion is go with A, B, V, K, whatever you can find. Some other threads have info about newer grinds, and i might try one in a turbo engine. But the big cam companies might be ignoring volvo B engines because we are cheap and we share info. Some of the cams on this forum have really slept around.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:54 AM   #38
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Webers need to be as close as possible to the cylinders, also if horizontal as horizontal as possible
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:00 AM   #39
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Ok, I'll ask. Why as close as possible?
I saw a weber sidedraft on an opel gt before a turbo once, and it went like hell.
I also saw a quadrajet on a porsche 911 feeding a turbo.
Maybe the laws of carb physics have changed since the 70s (the last part is just being stupid, I know the 2 cases I mentioned are not ideal. But they worked very well on non-intercooled cars)

You're 100% right about a float bowl needing to be level.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:55 AM   #40
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Webers need to be as close as possible to the cylinders, also if horizontal as horizontal as possible
Fwir
You are wrong, usually they get more torque with longer intake manifolds in f-group rallycars, and this is not hurting the top end power.
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Old 06-01-2021, 10:31 AM   #41
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You are wrong, usually they get more torque with longer intake manifolds in f-group rallycars, and this is not hurting the top end power.
I mean, I'm not an engineer or a dyno expert, but I would tend to agree. Having worked on and owned a couple V8 cars in the past, I can vouch for the whole longer runner = more power idea. I'd like to assume something to do with velocity, but again, not an expert. There's probably a reason tunnel rams and crossrams are so popular, right?
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:02 AM   #42
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Well I stand corrected. Though doesnt mean I wont find the facts. Post them if/when.
As I have a set of DCOE 45 #3’s that with some fitting, should work well. Albeit larger progression and jets etc as the are set for a 16. Was sort of thinking for the 23, but that might require the 50’s. So earmarked for the 21.
Velocity comes from many factors (not just plenum or trumpet), though I doubt this affects or has an effect of atomization.
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Old 06-01-2021, 01:40 PM   #43
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Well I stand corrected. Though doesnt mean I wont find the facts. Post them if/when.
As I have a set of DCOE 45 #3s that with some fitting, should work well. Albeit larger progression and jets etc as the are set for a 16. Was sort of thinking for the 23, but that might require the 50s. So earmarked for the 21.
Velocity comes from many factors (not just plenum or trumpet), though I doubt this affects or has an effect of atomization.
You need to do some homework. It definitely helps with atomization and also with charge momentum. Longer runners help the charge to overcome the closing of the valve. IOW, it improves cylinder charge density.
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Old 06-03-2021, 02:24 PM   #44
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No reply to a troll is the best approach. I’m over it all.
Besides, some of us are on vacation. I was driving home.

To answer his question , you can use wasted spark on any even-number 4 stroke engine with any overlap. It has been proven by the CVT toyotas and BMWs that run variable timing lift and duration. They crank that overlap in some cases to reduce pumping losses and for high rpm action.

Back to the OP,
My opinion is go with A, B, V, K, whatever you can find. Some other threads have info about newer grinds, and i might try one in a turbo engine. But the big cam companies might be ignoring volvo B engines because we are cheap and we share info. Some of the cams on this forum have really slept around.
Only problem redblock 16v volvos don't have CONTROLLED VARIABLE TIMING and neither does a flagship T6 I do not believe. You saved the face and it wasn't a challenge for you to answer but at least I see whos in the rooms. You also confirm by your post that cams with valve overlap reduce pumping losses an make higher rpms possible. Your answer shows me that at least YOU do your homework and realize the issue with valve overlap of a radical cam and wasted spark . Sequential injection and ignition systems now have a home on turbo bricks as a result of this question. What a save someone unknowingly orchestrated for sequential fuel management and cdi ignition systems... "velocity stacks" with "bell mouth inlets" are also already definitely proven technologies for more power. There is nothing quite like the phone world where you need to ask slick questions to extract truth.... Outside it an elliptical bell mouth profile typically wins.


TTYL
Hubert

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Old 06-04-2021, 11:37 AM   #45
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You are wrong, usually they get more torque with longer intake manifolds in f-group rallycars, and this is not hurting the top end power.
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I mean, I'm not an engineer or a dyno expert, but I would tend to agree. Having worked on and owned a couple V8 cars in the past, I can vouch for the whole longer runner = more power idea. I'd like to assume something to do with velocity, but again, not an expert. There's probably a reason tunnel rams and crossrams are so popular, right?
It wasn't a runner/header tuning question. It was about why DCOEs specifically need to be close to the valve, which they don't.
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Old 06-04-2021, 12:19 PM   #46
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Hi Mike,
I think his point was that stacks and long runners don't actually change the carb or injectors atomization and Id have to agree. Fuel Atomization and air charge density aren't exactly one in the same. It would seem that finer atomization could benefit the effects of cool rammed air much more effectively based on an increase surface area to interact with. One theory might be If it occurs further back that process has more faciliatory time to effect positive change. More than likely these different things will be merged all into one thing in the phone world versus isolating the separate pieces of the fuel and air delivery systems and seeing them for what they are. That creates misunderstanding and for some a point of contention.


Regards
Hubert

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Old 06-04-2021, 12:54 PM   #47
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I think this encompasses both theories as you see the injectors are still at relatively factory locations despite the longer runners and elliptical bell mouth stacks possibly inside the plenum.


Since Volvo makes OEM dual carb intake manifolds mounting ITB's and following them up with good bell mouthed stacks shouldn't create to much of a performance issue.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:10 PM   #48
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You also need perfect taper from cylinder head to carburetor or throttle bodies, it influences to flow of whole combination carb.>Intake mani->cylinder head...

Here is a finnish made intake manifold, from lvr racing engines:


those are good but a bit expensive.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:29 PM   #49
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You can also use these kind of fueling:



Those and megasquirt is very good combination.

But you need at least a 531 head with 48/40 valves, and 12.5-13.5cr if you want power which is comparable to turbos, original head and a or l or m or t or v or k or h cam and 14psi of boost. Thats make the same.

But 2.3-3.4 16v redblocks are damn good racing engines, those can make 400hp at wheels.
This engine is a f-group winner engine...


Here is a little peek to intake channel...
https://scontent.fqlf1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...b7&oe=60E205AD

Its a 2.3 maybe 270hp, at 2.5 it can make 300 and 2.8 it makes 340, and 3.2 or 3.4l 16v redblock can make a over 400hp and 400nm torque from 3500 to 8800-9200rpm. It have a very flat torque curve if all it's ok.
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Old 06-04-2021, 10:24 PM   #50
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The numbers are really astonishing Jussi. Are the really large displacements a result of stroking as well as boring? Will such an engine accept high boost?. What you are showing makes me envious of what the Volvo scene is like on the other side of the pond, Glad to see the European tuners sticking it to them and showing us the real potential of the engines .... If you have other forums please share a link. If not here then privately Jussi. I definitely plan to spend a little change with your friends at SK

Thank you for your time and patience
Hubert

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