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Old 09-15-2005, 02:08 AM   #1
yumling
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Default Max boost for Volvo Turbo plus kit

I understand that the Turbo plus kit allows power output to go from 160hp to about 188 hp for a short period. Anyone know what type of increase boost the turbo plus is allowing?

I am planning to install Greddy Profec B on my 945T and hope to set upper boost limit at around what the Turbo plus kit allows. I assume that since it is safe for Volvo, it must be a good upper limit. I have read the site and many say just adjust max boost till you hear knocking the lower boost it a little. But my hearing is not that keen and the 945T (1991) is not exactly the quietest car so sometimes I might not e able to hear the knocking.

My understanding is that the turbo+ kit allows for a short 10 sec burst of increased boost so I guess I have to keep WOT to under 15 seconds to be safe.

I would appreciate any comments.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:48 AM   #2
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Boris740 makes a knocksense that flashes a LED on the dash whenever a knock event occurs.

As far as Turbo+, not entirely sure...but it's probably not over 15psi. Lots of people are running that and more with fairly stock cars.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:52 AM   #3
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I thought the Turbo+ Was for the 85' 240 Turbo's That came with in factory intercooler? All other Volvo turbo's came with factory intercoolers so Volvo already had the Boost set to Thier Stock limit (Anywhere from 7-10psi?).

Are we talking about Aftermarket Turbo+?
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:55 AM   #4
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Right now thanks to my SAAB APC (modded to red box specs) I'm running 13PSI without issue. The smaller mitsu turbo thats in our cars is good for ~17psi
13-15 is about as much as I would recomend running with it though

The Turbo + was suposed to increase the stock boost from 7.5 to 11PSI for 20secs or so under WOT. I dont think it actualy listened to the knock sensor to stop over boosting
as i recall the LH2.4 system listens to the knock but does not actualy adjust the boost level at all. (the boost systems in our car are directly controlled by the wastgate and the actual amount of vacum behind the throttle plate
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:16 AM   #5
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mt T+(second gen) hits 12 psi after around 4200 rpm at WOT. so i don't see why running 11psi would be bad. HOWEVER, i've noticed and maybe someone can correct me but with a stock exhaust and intercooler, there are almost no performance gains between 12/13 and 16 psi. The air at 16psi is too hot, and you loose out on any additional benefits the extra boost gives. However, if you swap the intercooler, and get bigger injectors, then its a different story.

So i would say 11 psi is a good thing to set it too.
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Old 09-15-2005, 10:42 AM   #6
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I second 11psi. Based on rules of thumb, the kit allows an extra 4 psi of boost. If your engine, injectors, pumps etc are in good shape, it should handle 11 psi no problem (on premium of course).

Yes Gene_Gatech, the stock exhaust will quickly start to become a bottle neck as you increase the boost. That's why exhaust upgrade is at the top of the staged upgrades list.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:00 PM   #7
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Turbo + is 10PSI from what I have read/heard.

10PSI is generally cool to give your ride a little more umph, while still keeping it safe no matter how hard you choose to drive it and still keeping gas mileage in check. Probably why Volvo choose 10PSI for turbo +.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:14 PM   #8
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your not gonna know how much boost is ideal till you can monitor timing retard/advance - i assume this is computer controlled on this car since you are talking about a "knock led mod"

the car wouldn't have a knock sensor unless the computer has a way to retart timing under too much boost/too low octane fuel
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unior
your not gonna know how much boost is ideal till you can monitor timing retard/advance - i assume this is computer controlled on this car since you are talking about a "knock led mod"

the car wouldn't have a knock sensor unless the computer has a way to retart timing under too much boost/too low octane fuel
The ICU retards timing...
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:31 PM   #10
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11-12 psi seems to give the best results on a stock engine on regular (UK) fuel. In my experience any boost increase above that gives detonation. Remember, if you are getting detonation you are losing performance, as the combustion is not pushing the piston down at the correct point in the stroke for maximum power regardless of the engine damage considerations.
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Old 09-16-2005, 12:40 PM   #11
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Default My `94 940 with turbo+

Griz and I ran the car with the boost gauge and the turbo+ before we removed it to see what it was doing.(car was totally standard at the time, B230FT with a garret T25)

this is what happened.

Boost ran at 6psi at low revs.

After 3000ish it picked up to 10psi

After 4300ish it rose to 14psi for a couple of seconds then went back to 10psi for a couple more seconds then went back up to 14psi and so on and so on until redline.

Then we took the turbo+ off and fitted an mbc
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Old 09-16-2005, 02:01 PM   #12
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you don't have to remove the T+ to install an MBC, infact i think its better to have both, so you can keep the knock detection benefits of T+ and the control of the MBC.

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Old 09-16-2005, 03:36 PM   #13
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Knock detection has nothing to do with Turbo + or MBC's. The knock sensor is on the side of the block and unless you remove that, or go with a different ignition system, the ICU is always checking for knock. The turbo+ system is simply a boost control with WOT and rpm reference. Depending how you plumbed it, the MBC could raise your base boost, and the turbo + would then give another +4psi at wide open throttle above 3000rpm, not a bad feature since most knock occurs at lower rpm, unless you're running lean of course...
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Old 09-16-2005, 05:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckvolvo
Knock detection has nothing to do with Turbo + or MBC's. The knock sensor is on the side of the block and unless you remove that, or go with a different ignition system, the ICU is always checking for knock. The turbo+ system is simply a boost control with WOT and rpm reference. Depending how you plumbed it, the MBC could raise your base boost, and the turbo + would then give another +4psi at wide open throttle above 3000rpm, not a bad feature since most knock occurs at lower rpm, unless you're running lean of course...
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Incorrect..........

"If knocking occurs, the kit will automatically shut off and not allow increased boost until the throttle is closed a little and then fully opened again"
Turbo + manual (1154446-D56-4000-PP304633-8545) page 1, para 4

"...boost pressure is increased to 10-13psi at 5000rpm with Wide Open Throttle."
Turbo + manual (1154446-D56-4000-PP304633-8545) page 3, table/fault syptoms

LH 2.2 performance gain with +Turbo kit
Performance

180HP@5400rpm
187ft-lbs/2900-4800rpm

Acceleration
(man) (auto)
0-50 mph 5.5sec 5.7sec
0-60 mph 7.7 sec 7.7sec
standing 1/4 mile 16.0sec 16.2sec
Top speed 130mph 130mph
Turbo + manual (1154446-D56-4000-PP304633-8545) page 2, paras 5 and 6



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Old 09-16-2005, 05:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V70R740T
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Incorrect..........

"If knocking occurs, the kit will automatically shut off and not allow increased boost until the throttle is closed a little and then fully opened again"
Turbo + manual (1154446-D56-4000-PP304633-8545) page 1, para 4

"...boost pressure is increased to 10-13psi at 5000rpm with Wide Open Throttle."
Turbo + manual (1154446-D56-4000-PP304633-8545) page 3, table/fault syptoms

LH 2.2 performance gain with +Turbo kit
Performance

180HP@5400rpm
187ft-lbs/2900-4800rpm

Acceleration
(man) (auto)
0-50 mph 5.5sec 5.7sec
0-60 mph 7.7 sec 7.7sec
standing 1/4 mile 16.0sec 16.2sec
Top speed 130mph 130mph
Turbo + manual (1154446-D56-4000-PP304633-8545) page 2, paras 5 and 6



Patrick
THANK YOU!!! I've been finding all these different stories as well, so OE info is certainly helpful. Came installed when I bought my wagon, but no info on the actual operation.
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Old 09-16-2005, 06:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V70R740T
Incorrect..........

"If knocking occurs, the kit will automatically shut off and not allow increased boost until the throttle is closed a little and then fully opened again"
Ah, very interesting! You learn something every day!

I wonder if thats what was happening with sutermans car, the fluctuation between 10 and 14psi.
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Old 09-16-2005, 06:16 PM   #17
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thank you, i knew i was right.


Gene
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Old 09-16-2005, 07:13 PM   #18
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"there are almost no performance gains between 12/13 and 16 psi. The air at 16psi is too hot, and you loose out on any additional benefits the extra boost gives."

Absolutey wrong. The difference in performance between 12/13 and 16 is a real kick in the pants. I know. I drive turbo Volvos.
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Old 09-16-2005, 07:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C
"there are almost no performance gains between 12/13 and 16 psi. The air at 16psi is too hot, and you loose out on any additional benefits the extra boost gives."

Absolutey wrong. The difference in performance between 12/13 and 16 is a real kick in the pants. I know. I drive turbo Volvos.
Uhh, don;t I DRIVE A TURBO VOLVO TOO??Give me some PROOF or some reasoning, then i might consider what you said. From what i can tell the gain is VERY MINIMAL in stock exhaust/intercooler form.

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Old 09-16-2005, 07:59 PM   #20
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Hmmmm 10 to 13 psi and it gives 180hp. This shows that just increasing boost without better exhaust or other modifications gives limited power increase. BTW does the manual specify different boost pressure for different turbos? I have a Mitsubishi turbo.

I suspect that the acceleration figures are for a Garrett turbo. I have seen 1988 740T doing 7 to 7.5 seconds 0-60. And yet most 1990/91 940T are doing 9 seconds. Engine is the same so why this difference. Really strange.

Any idea how long Turbo + hold this boost for?.

I guess a safe pressure is 10 to 12 psi. If it is good enough for Volvo Factory it should be good enough daily use. One must also remember to maintain this higher boost for no more than 10 to 20 secs. I suspect that after 20 sec, charged air gets so heated that it is a case of diminshing returns.

In fact I suspect that if one limits max boost to under 8 secs, it is probably possible to run very high boosts. It must take at least a couple of seconds for the heat to become a factor. Sorry for the rambling
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Old 09-16-2005, 08:09 PM   #21
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Nothing like cold hard facts.

Last edited by Steve C; 09-16-2005 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 09-16-2005, 08:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene_Gatech
Uhh, don;t I DRIVE A TURBO VOLVO TOO??Give me some PROOF or some reasoning, then i might consider what you said. From what i can tell the gain is VERY MINIMAL in stock exhaust/intercooler form.

Gene
How do you tell this? What do you base your guesses on?

I run a three stage boost system. I ran a two stage for years. At the push of a button I can show you the difference. Come for a ride anytime.

I used to sell G-valves in this area, I've installed about 20. I and the guys who bought them can show you the difference.
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckvolvo
Ah, very interesting! You learn something every day!

I wonder if thats what was happening with sutermans car, the fluctuation between 10 and 14psi.
I think the problem with Suterman's car is that his MBC is sticking and bleeding pressure, so his turbo is flogging it's guts out to get to that boost level. This would also explain why he's getting spike and his relative lack of performance. Assuming his wastegate, actuator and CBV are working ok he should not get boost spike with an MBC that is working correctly.
I've been experimenting with my boost pressure and found the best real world performance on a stock engine is to be found at 12psi with standard UK fuel.
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Old 09-17-2005, 03:08 AM   #24
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From what I remember Turbo + was a 4psi gain over stock (7-7.5psi); Turbo ++ was a 6psi gain. Both were WOT (4000+ RPM) only gains. I have the specs somewhere...have to look around later on and see if I can find them. They're probably buried in a mound of totes in the closet from my move.

Personally I'd rather run a Saab APC system...the Turbo + system only backs off the timing (via ignition system) if it senses detonation, while the APC has that and will also retard the boost in 1.5psi increments. Definitely a plus if there's a slight possibility you'll run anything other than 93 octane in it. The stock APC is set for around 14psi max (adjustable) and more is possible with a "red" model, an after-market modified one, or the rare M-type from the late 80s 900 Turbo race series cars.

On my first 744ti I installed an APC setup and it worked great...unfortunately the car meet an untimely end before I could really enjoy it. I had two controllers...a standard one that was untouched and a M-type I bought off a Saab racer in Sweden (for future use when I upgraded the turbo). The normal one was lost in the accident, I'm not sure where the hot one is...hoping I still have it packed up in the attic at my parent's house.
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Old 09-17-2005, 03:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C
How do you tell this? What do you base your guesses on?

I run a three stage boost system. I ran a two stage for years. At the push of a button I can show you the difference. Come for a ride anytime.

I used to sell G-valves in this area, I've installed about 20. I and the guys who bought them can show you the difference.
Steve,
First of all they aren't guesses, as i have all the equipment neccesary to run 7/11/13/16 psi, and monitor the boost. So i have everything you have to "base guesses" thing i have to ask you, do you have stock exhaust and intercooler? I need to go dig out my thermo book(at my apt), but this is all hearsay without a G-Tech meter, or some 1/4 mile runs. The only thing that doesn't make sense then, is why are people pulling out the volvo intercoolers and swapping in npr/powerstroke. Its because at that high of a psi, the volvo intercooler becomes innefficient and any gains that you have recieved from the higher boost is neglected by the lower density of the higher air. Eitherway, 16psi might give you a little more juice but its the same as the jump from 7-11. Thats why you can tell its loosing effeciency.


Gene

Quote:
Turbo ++ was a 6psi gain.
Whats T++? I thought there were two generations of T+, and the "extra" plus was the addition of an mbc.
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