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Old 05-17-2021, 01:12 PM   #101
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The Drs. hold the patents for the winds and other cool stuff but the IEEE freely shares the information for educational purposes. Of course you cant manufacture motors for a profit with this exact winding tech and not talk to them about it, but for your diy or educational projects you may implement it if you can. All the ideas in the world are no good if you don't have real practitioners. Plus the future needs people that can repair those things. Young guys can get into this NOW and make some real bank soon. It's just what I think is around the horizon. So its where I've been focused the last 10 years trying to learn as much as possible about the motor and battery technology.

Regards
Hubert
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:28 AM   #102
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The Visions interior. It has 4 electric motors (2 per transaxle) totaling 738hp. With its 90kWh battery the range is 227 miles. It uses of course the latest motor tech for less costly high efficiency induction machines and inverters. Always the goal....

Regards ,
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Old 05-29-2021, 11:01 AM   #103
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The individual that sells my brother the EV cells for car stereo sets up his cells with busbars and the proper allotments and circuitry for balanced charging. Its ok but I see no use for using spruce to set this up for a vehicle however I do think anyone at this will learn very quickly how important this i$. IMHO if you aim for high voltage and low amperage you will be better off. It is also much more economical to use Hubertus level rewind on a motor for better efficiency and drive compatibility that maximized the work from the batteries output.... Since the Drs have shared the novel methods they used to get around issues why wouldn't anyone seriously considering this that has the ability to follow and execute the rewind. It is one of the cheapest ways to reduce iron losses by nearly half.
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:05 PM   #104
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APD Has Been Collaborating With Local SMEs To Design And Develop Electronics Systems For Mobile Artillery Systems.

https://powerdrives.net/defence/apd-...llery-vehicle/

Who told you their drive are designed for airplanes because Tony the designing engineer flies drones and and any German that knows hobbyist 400 mph speed planes know that what they fly is YGE inverters . Young Generation Electronics which is truly designed for airplanes. It would not make any sense to begin with because the best inverter in the world uses SiC components and the motor and efficiency output is greater and the form factor smaller than any ev in existence. Its brought to you from Siemens who still holds that world record drive and motor. You get more mileage in a lighter car. What you rolling your eyes for its fact....



The AIRPLANE power plant produced 1500nm of torque weighing 50kg. The SiC based inverter that runs it you see here weighs 900 grams
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:08 PM   #105
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Just do the math, it's not as easy as you have written it. The efficiency is the factor for higher power throughput.

An example
Assume that the motor has an efficiency η = 0.900 and can process an input power of 5.0 kW. This means that (1 - 0.9) × 5 kW = 500 watts of excess heat can be dissipated. By pressing in thicker wire (and / or using better segmented stator iron magnets) the efficiency increases to 0.933. The motor's ability to lose those 500 watts has not changed (through radiation, convection, and conduction). This means that the motor can now handle 7.5 kW before it reaches the loss limit of 500 watts (0.066 × 7.5 kW).
An efficiency from 90 to 93.3% means an increase in performance of 50%, a factor of 1.5. This is why efficiency plays such an important role in every motor concept: the efficiency determines the maximum output. All of this on the assumption that the iron is not saturated.
A pretty extreme example, just for computational / fun reasons: an increase in efficiency from 80% to 90% would increase the input power the motor can handle by a factor of 2. However, if the efficiency can be increased from 90% to 95%, the input power also increases by a factor of 2.


General case
A change from efficiency ηold to efficiency ηnew would result in an increase in the maximum engine power by a factor of N.
N = (1 - eta old) / (1 - eta new)

Copper as thick as possible for ...
higher efficiency
more efficient
lower speed drop under load
lower losses
lower temperature requires less cooling

For testing the same engine sizes e.g. Define a power, for example 35 volts and 100 amps, and tape off all cooling options (tape tape around the fan openings and the motor to a plywood sheet, against heat dissipation e.g. with aluminum). Let the motor run at this power for 2 minutes and then immediately set the temperatures at different Measure places. Therefore set the cooling to zero if possible, otherwise a better cooling fan design keeps the motor cool but the power loss can still be quite high. Otherwise you wouldn't recognize that.

~ Christian Lucas ~

My colleague and German brother that holds several patents in aviation instrumentation, electric motors, and fuel cell technology. Be careful with the phone world on turbobricks way that doesn't believe striving for top efficiency is always a goal with any EV worth a flip. A hobby wont be much fun that way.



I watch with interest, and I hope this is clear and concise enough for the EV and electric motor experts you may encounter here on turbo bricks. Efficiency and weight has no place in your discussions about EV's with them, U see they push it out the truth, but I think you should seriously consider it from the information uve been provided above if you are indeed an engineer. Especially if you want maximin fun that last..... What I've written should be crystal clear to you. They don't understand that most motors you find in the junkyard wont have the new wind tech therefore you can implement it and have a motor with theoretically half its original iron losses. We spent 7 years proving it to other engineers, I wont waste another 14 with the smart people on TB. Anybody that truly understands this wont require much coaxing because all they have to do is review the math. To say 19 points of efficiency wont make a difference in your fun Is a huge overcite! I also don't think you'll have much fun at 42 hp.

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-29-2021, 02:03 PM   #106
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I was just thinking that using square cut copper wire might allow for a more densely packed winding. Would that be a worthwhile experiment?
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Old 05-29-2021, 02:23 PM   #107
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I was just thinking that using square cut copper wire might allow for a more densely packed winding. Would that be a worthwhile experiment?
Yes depending on the slot geometry that is one way to increase fill. That's absolutely correct! Some companies are producing fill rates well above 70% using a hydraulic press process for more compact coils. Concentrated winds inherently have more fill potential. Mitigating the harmful effect of their slot harmonics are the novel practices that have been FREELY shared here.

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-29-2021, 02:38 PM   #108
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I guess they didn't realize that them crying about factual knowledge got me admonished and forbade from giving the facts in the other thread. A motorcycle engine is not OEM for any Volvo anything. That wasn't the real issue . The real issue is it was me posting it. U see they are impressed with the Alibaba and have no issues with it being posted, but have no interest in the worlds best...or high efficiency. It has no place in the phone world and is irrelevant to it. They just want to throw anything together which is fine and fun in some circles but who really does that that would merit any real consideration as a technical reference for such projects.....Sounds like a bunch of il advised monkey business that blocks real learning in place of the click to me. Its fine because it only hurts them producing anything worthwhile in this regard. Major Malfunction!!!





Here is a high performance motorcycle engine for competition e bikes. It is produced by Plettenburg Motoren. Mathias Himmlemen can help you if you want a power plant in that size. The motor efficiency is >90%. You see also that it is water cooled. To find its torque constant devide 1 by its rpms per volt specification. That number multiplied buy your expected current will give you some torque output estimations. This formula will not work for induction machines!!!

https://www.plettenberg-motoren.net/...ysteme/motoren

If you talk to Matthias you tell him Hubert, Christians friend from the states sent you....UWE PLETTENBURG is a very smart man.

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Old 05-29-2021, 03:24 PM   #109
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Motorsteuerung MST 400-133
Gewicht:2.380 gr.
Schutzklasse:IP 53
elektrische Umdrehung max.:240.000 1/min
Spannung:90 - 370 V
Strom:133 A

Regards
Hubert
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Old 05-29-2021, 03:37 PM   #110
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@ Swedebrick




The APD will do 1,000,000 e revolutions and has low pass filtering capability. Of course they have telemetry and can accept PWM, Dshot and ProShot digital protocol but I guess their F3 and F4 processors are obsolete now and that's when I used to know something back then before I got all messed up.




Regards,
Hubert

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Old 05-29-2021, 05:47 PM   #111
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MGM COMPRO is another High end drive from your side that like APD utilizes synchronous rectification for high power density and very tunable regenerative brakes. This is 100kW.
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Old 05-29-2021, 06:06 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
[CENTER]I guess they didn't realize that them crying about factual knowledge got me admonished and forbade from giving the facts in the other thread. A motorcycle engine is not OEM for any Volvo anything. That wasn't the real issue . The real issue is it was me posting it.
You need to step away from the oppression koolaid. Look in a mirror before you say someone else is crying. Nobody forbade you from posting, I asked you to keep the "it's math, stupid" attitude out of the other thread.
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Old 05-30-2021, 02:59 AM   #113
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Firstly Mike I don't drink "Kool Aid" and there's no" its math stupid" that's you saying that. I said " just do the math" and its just really that simple, But I know you have a better way to explain the effect of efficiency on an electrical rotating machine than my mathematic examples so Ill let you do it when you read 19 points of it wont make much difference. Excuse me! but It makes a HUGE difference !! however I'm happy and good luck with the project. Im not terribly concerned about it because hearsay and speculative ideas free of the censored mathematics are only going to fry things in the EV world and make it a very expensive and unenjoyable hobby.



The designers will come to the math instead of it coming to them soon enuf. I realize new engineers are popping up here everyday now but all the personal emotions over the use of math and physics to explain a problem to someone that is lacking the fundamental understanding of how a machine works is never offensive in those real circles. Swedebrick, the OP from the Netherlands who I speaking to, Im quite positive he nor any other real one in the room has sent a single report to you or anyone about it.

Efficiency is the factor for higher throughput power and that's final no matter who gets mad about it coming after their post. On a technical forum when you make definitive statements it is the posters responsibility to consider who may be in the room and accept correction if the assertions are incorrect. The only way it isn't is if this is really a social site and not one where you can expect the right answer about things technical. Which one is it? A social site for a click or one where candid and real conversations about how things work where math and physics will be accepted? Im not trying to be funny but Im not holding anyones hands because they don't like the truth.


Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-30-2021, 06:55 AM   #114
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Here's a perfect example why experience matters. Why hack a drive versus just using it? If you are going to build a drive for a brushless motor and are no drive expert why wouldn't it help a DIY hobbyist to be aware that they make fast acting logic based motor control solutions which would only require a robust bridge be built? One such IC is the MC33035. Since it handles the commutation which requires no MCU work it could be teamed with a MCU like Arduino for additional functionality. I guess from it having to be posted here vs there where its helpful to them that they've no use for this type of thing for hobbyist? Nevertheless it seems they will never know about this from the social phone world. It really does nothing but make the "hobbyist's work" just that more complicated and expensive with such broad unnecessary ideas that have much simpler solutions accepted by industry and field professionals . No issues though... Its truly ok with me though. I'm certified to commission VFD's like SEW EURO and HITACHI for a living. This is much more critical work, with much more powerful and elaborate systems in automation than anything a hobbyist here could imagine. I really do this sht for a living and I know bs when I see it.

It helps no one to speak on a device if you've never used it and know nothing about it. I know its difficult to take from me but sometime it would be better to sit back and learn what someone has to show you. The power density here is 175 watt per gram in a drive that can do 30kW. That's the market best. The cost is 1,200.00 usd. I have also the prototype before any hobbyist in the world with not even a label yet. Im pretty sure I know what it does or at least was able find out....and yes its technology is driven by the military aerospace industries like General Dynamics and Thiokol. What is the problem??



Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-30-2021, 07:59 AM   #115
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If you truly wanted to put a real discussion on the table I think you would seriously consider collaborations or conversations that start at 10 and end somewhere around 20,000.00 or betta US DOLLARS. ESP if your goal is to build an e car with range that impresses fans of 300 hp turbo volvos. From here Im done talking about it because I know it will take at least that to really have something. Does Volvo manufacture scooters? That or an e motorcycle is about all my pockets can handle right now. On the other hand my free contribution to hand wind your motor with the hybrid topology would have been literally thousands in labor.

If you're going to build an e car save yourself all the bull sht and trouble and build it right. You have to do the math its critical or you couldn't even derive the right winding scheme for the better motor. Of course if you are building an e car right you have to most definitely consider the electrical motors losses it and the inverter efficiency as a power system and how you will utilize amperage and voltage in the build. For E this is most critical. Like anything else I wont waste my time with ignorance.

Regards,
Hubert

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Old 05-30-2021, 08:08 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
If you truly wanted to put a real discussion on the table I think you would seriously consider collaborations or conversations that start at 10 and end somewhere around 20,000.00 or betta US DOLLARS. ESP if your goal is to build an e car with range that impresses fans of 300 hp turbo volvos. From here Im done talking about it because I know it will take at least that to really have something. Does Volvo manufacture scooters? That or an e motorcycle is about all my pockets can handle right now. On the other hand my free contribution to hand wind your motor with the hybrid topology would have been literally thousands in labor.

Regards,
Hubert



stellar
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:14 AM   #117
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If you truly wanted to put a real discussion on the table I think you would seriously consider collaborations or conversations that start at 10 and end somewhere around 20,000.00 or betta US DOLLARS. ESP if your goal is to build an e car with range that impresses fans of 300 hp turbo volvos. From here Im done talking about it because I know it will take at least that to really have something. Does Volvo manufacture scooters? That or an e motorcycle is about all my pockets can handle right now. On the other hand my free contribution to hand wind your motor with the hybrid topology would have been literally thousands in labor.

If you're going to build an e car save yourself all the bull sht and trouble and build it right. You have to do the math its critical or you couldn't even derive the right winding scheme for the better motor. Of course if you are building an e car right you have to most definitely consider the electrical motors losses it and the inverter efficiency as a power system and how you will utilize amperage and voltage in the build. For E this is most critical. Like anything else I wont waste my time with ignorance.

Regards,
Hubert
addendum
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:25 AM   #118
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See you can use a general winding calculator like this for a good machine but without the Drs math you wont attenuate any harmful power robbing slot harmonics for even better performance. U have to get involved with trigonometry and I'm sure the op from the Netherlands understands this. This is one of the few places a DIY spirit can shine and truly gain ground if they want to build a fine EV.

Regards,
Hubert
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:54 AM   #119
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If you build a brushless motor with permanent magnets (safety has to be implemented) the number of turns and the coil configuration set the electrical gearing or rpm per volt and consequently the torque constant. What you would have to be sure of in a direct drive setup is that the rotor at that circumference be able to withstand the forces mechanically at higher rpms. That will set your true redline !!! The BLDC inverter is going to vary the speed proportionally to the throttle till max bus voltage at full on. The torque constant is the inverse of the motors speed per volt. A 4 motor all wheel design could work well but will have to consider the wheels circumference as it relates to distance and time. Amperage sink and voltage are at a premium because you have to make sure the inverter and motor winds themselves can handle the voltage and current required to do the job and that their electrical gearing is correct as well as mechanically safe for the job. If you built a 3 phase 4 pole 12 stator arm BLDC machine the size of a warp 9. Man watch out your gears and mechanical connections better be good !!! Ill talk to you later Swedebricks. I have an install I have to do at 9:30... If you or your friends in the Netherlands are at a lathe and mill you can make some sht happen with the right plans..... no matter what anyone says you will have to set an electrical requirement based on your mechanical goals and then calculate to provide that somehow. Roughly speaking to find the amperage required to do a job with a BLDC is by dividing the torque required by the motor in questions torque constant. So the electrical gearing counts big time. The motor with the lowest synchronous speed with the same amount of turns is typically the best motor because less turns are then required for the same rpm. Less turns in that case leave room for larger wire or more turns thus larger current or voltage capacity and theoretically better copper fill. Oh yeah bruh you gone use yo calculator u better believe it.

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-30-2021, 05:24 PM   #120
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I had thought that lower turn counts were inherently more powerful and efficient. Is that simply because of the higher weight of copper possible in a low turn count wind?

The problem, as you state, appears to be in the ability to "gear down" the low turn count/higher rpm motor to a usable range. Not sure this is workable in a wheel motor.
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:32 PM   #121
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This is all very fascinating. Really. But can it shoot flames out of the tail pipe? lol.
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:33 PM   #122
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Btw, first guy to start a group-buy... please let me know in muh PMs! Thanks. ;)
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:47 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
If you truly wanted to put a real discussion on the table I think you would seriously consider collaborations or conversations that start at 10 and end somewhere around 20,000.00 or betta US DOLLARS. ESP if your goal is to build an e car with range that impresses fans of 300 hp turbo volvos. From here Im done talking about it because I know it will take at least that to really have something. Does Volvo manufacture scooters? That or an e motorcycle is about all my pockets can handle right now. On the other hand my free contribution to hand wind your motor with the hybrid topology would have been literally thousands in labor.

If you're going to build an e car save yourself all the bull sht and trouble and build it right. You have to do the math its critical or you couldn't even derive the right winding scheme for the better motor. Of course if you are building an e car right you have to most definitely consider the electrical motors losses it and the inverter efficiency as a power system and how you will utilize amperage and voltage in the build. For E this is most critical. Like anything else I wont waste my time with ignorance.

Regards,
Hubert
Mr. Hubert,

If I wanted to convert a 240 to an electric vehicle and I had a budget of 5k. Whats the best route to get there? What components should I use? Where are they sourced from?

Is this a possible task?

Regards,
Ben
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Old 05-30-2021, 07:12 PM   #124
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Quote:
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I had thought that lower turn counts were inherently more powerful and efficient. Is that simply because of the higher weight of copper possible in a low turn count wind?

The problem, as you state, appears to be in the ability to "gear down" the low turn count/higher rpm motor to a usable range. Not sure this is workable in a wheel motor.
I only know what I learned a long time ago, from memory. So this is going to be very vague.
In permanent magnet DC motors with roughly the same rotor winding mass, the higher winding count had higher resistance, more efficiency, lower rpm potential.
Fewer thicker windings (low resistance) have higher current, potentially higher rpm and power, and the iron core/armature frame has an effect.
Each variation and application has different brush timing requirements.
I know almost nothing about brushless, except they are AC instead of DC.
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Old 05-31-2021, 01:04 AM   #125
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Hi Mike,
I hope you do see that some apologies cant totally be sincere if the individual trolls and stalks you even harder after he makes them u see nothing of value has been added with the addition of their presence and silly comments here....Seems like another dollar general rubber room need be created in OT so someone can vent! This is why a contact list becomes necessary to share information with people with know how uninhibited by acts of buffoonery. I'm sure the truly interested visitors, in particular the ones overseas, do not understand or subscribe to the nonsense in the middle of it. In the future I'd really appreciate if you'd remove such post as they take time to address and aren't of any real value to the forum. Id appreciate in at least my threads that post in the performance section remain technical or informative in nature. When you post something strictly to invoke negative emotion in another member that's TROLLING definitively.... I'm not his friend. I really have no respect for people who give half ass apologies simply because the lights are on.... All u have to do is look at his behavior since his quoted apology. A person honestly couldn't be less credible than his apology combined with his currently displayed actions.
It is Stellar!!

In your honor He's ever rearranged his avatar to mimic u since then......have u looked? See his kool aid smile.... so then what about his apology? If it had any man value why Im still here having to address the ignorant behavior I don't want a sorry apology I just wish people that can only do this just keep their mouths closed in my threads as they will have very little positive or informative to add.

Thank you for your time and patience,
Hubert

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