home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2021, 04:37 PM   #1
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default 1984 245 Wagon Engine Stall

My daughter was driving the Volvo from her friends house in Renton back to Tacoma and while driving about 45 mph heading towards the freeway the engine stalled. She was able to coast into a nearby business parking lot. When I arrived to tow the car back home I noted that the key worked, the lights came on, the engine would turn over, there was gas and oil where it should be. I now have to troubleshoot to see just what might have happened, fix it, and get her back on the road again. Any suggestions on where to start?
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 05:03 PM   #2
TestPoint
Board Member
 
TestPoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ellijay
Default

Just a drop dead is more likely electrical rather than fuel. I would expect a fuel problem to cough and sputter a moment before a complete stop.

My first test in this situation would always be a shot of starter fluid. If it runs on starter fluid it is a fuel problem. No run, electrical.

Fuses, obvious electrical connections. Crank position sensor wires.
__________________


1982 Volvo 245 with a Ford 302 V8

Ford V8 Conversion Manual -
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=250257

Bertone Restoration - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=256460
TestPoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 05:23 PM   #3
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

Thanks, will it it a try.
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 05:52 PM   #4
Khrrck
Professional Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Beaverton, OR
Default

What version of engine management is the car running? Probably LH 2.1?

If it mysteriously starts running again, I always have gotten good mileage out of wiggling all electrical connectors and seeing if one of them makes it die again. Then you pull that apart, shoot with contact cleaner and apply dielectric grease to reduce future corrosion.
__________________
'87 240 budget wagon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Navigating the Siskiyous in a 3 wheeled Volvo will not end well.
Khrrck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 06:23 PM   #5
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

Not really sure on the engine management other than it is fuel injected. I tried the starter fluid and nothing happened. I checked what fuses there are, could find no main or engine fuse, and they are all good. I played with the various different wires in the engine compartment but nothing there. One thing that was strange was that last October we put a new Interstate battery in and repainted the tray with corrosion resistant zinc oxide and it now has a real thick silver/white crystal like residue on the tray. I have seen plenty of battery acid residue but this is uniquely different I am sure it is unrelated though.
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 06:38 PM   #6
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

I would post some pictures if it were not so complicated to do so.
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 07:30 PM   #7
TestPoint
Board Member
 
TestPoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ellijay
Default

Pictures not complicated, just not hosted on this forum.

I am trapped onto PhotoBucket but it is not a favorite anymore. Post on a picture hosting site, copy the link address, click on the mountains icon and paste. There you go.

Last edited by TestPoint; 06-10-2021 at 07:37 PM..
TestPoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 08:53 PM   #8
John242Ti
LH-Jet & Carb Free Zone
 
John242Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Duvall, WA
Default

A 1984 non-turbo 240 would have LH 2.0.

Anyway, it sounds like it might be an ignition issue if the car cranks with no sign of starting. If you hear the starter solenoid engage, but no cranking, check the battery terminals, especially if they are the aftermarket style with the clamp that goes over the battery cable with two bolts.

My family had an '84 245GL that, every two years, would develop corrosion on the positive battery cable. Sometimes it would stall, then restart almost immediately, other times, the whole electrical system would go dead, either coming back 30 seconds later, or remaining dead until the terminal connections were cleaned up. Car continued to do this until the battery was replaced with one that didn't belch out acid. Seems the factory translucent case batteries weren't very well-sealed. It's possible that the Interstate battery in your 245 has the same issue. Kinda rare on an Interstate battery, but it can happen.
__________________

1982 242Ti - black, M46. 1985 245Ti - blue, M46 - soon to be for sale.

@john242ti on IG
John242Ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 09:16 PM   #9
daniels740
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: South Florida
Default

On the topic of battery terminals, my 740 would get the worst corrosion on the positive terminal. I went through two or 3 replacement terminals before finding a good solution. What I did and suggest you do is use the following two products to first clean and neutralize the acid/corrosion and then prevent future corrosion.

To clean and neutralize the acid: https://www.walmart.com/ip/NOCO-Remo...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

To stop any further corrosion: https://www.walmart.com/ip/NOCO-NCP2...t-Kit/16213366

That's under a $10 total with tax, to get the job done right the first time. I've used multiple greases including dielectric and this is the only solution I've tried that will keep your terminals healthy and making good contact.

Anyway, if starter fluid hasn't worked, you definitely have a spark or timing issue. Timing belts usually don't fail with the engine running, but check that your camshaft is moving (see if there is movement under the oil cap when cranking). If all's good concerning that, then count on becoming good with a multimeter if you aren't already, thankfully these cars aren't too complicated
daniels740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 10:19 PM   #10
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

The battery terminals are clean and in good shape, which is odd with the amount of corrosion in the tray. The battery sides are clean with no signs of residue (just replaced a Les Schwab battery on our 2002 forester and it was heavily creamed with green goo. Checked the fluid in the battery and it was normal. The valves move when the engine turns over. Not much experience with troubleshooting electrical engine components. It does have some kind of electronic box under the washer reservoir which I assume must be the brain for the system. It also has a map sensor (cleaned that about 6 months ago).

When we first purchased the car last year we had it looked at by a local Volvo repair mechanic who said that 1984 was the worst year for Volvo and the ignition system was most problematic. Don't really now what might be so unique about this year, could possibly be what we are experiencing, or could be just his opinion. Any thoughts?
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 10:25 PM   #11
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

will still get those Walmart battery cleaning products and try them out any. The problem could be hidden.

We replaced the rear in tank fuel pump last year. The main pump has had an annoying buzz. Could this be a culprit? She said the car had a noticeable but very brief (she said it was hard to describe) lurch before it went dead stick and she realized there was nothing there.
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 11:00 PM   #12
daniels740
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: South Florida
Default

If it was the pump, the engine would probably have started off the starter fluid. Where did you spray the starter fluid into? I found that sticking the little straw into the intake hose right before the throttle body and spraying a small steady stream while cranking the engine will get it to fire and in fact run quite nicely if fuel delivery is the issue. I actually ran my 740 on MAF sensor cleaner, lol.
daniels740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2021, 11:25 PM   #13
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

The map senor on the air cleaner side. Probably should try the other end at the throttle body.
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2021, 12:42 AM   #14
djshimon
Board Member
 
djshimon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland Oregon
Default

How's that timing belt looking/sounding?
__________________
Self driving 240T
djshimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2021, 01:12 PM   #15
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

Which distributor do you have? '84 should have the brown cap Bosch distributor instead of the white cap Chrysler one.

Have you checked for spark? Remove the coil wire from the distributor and place the end within ¼" of a grounded part of the chassis. One of the studs for the strut mount is a good location. While watching for spark have a helper try to start the engine. If you don't have a helper you can activate the starter from the test lead under the hood with a jumper wire. Just be sure the transmission is in park (auto) or neutral (manual) and the key is in the run position.

The starter test lead is near the dipstick.



If there's no spark go through the diagnostic tree to determine the fault.



The wires for the alternator and ignition are run behind and under the crank pulley. If the retainers are broken the wires can contact the pulley and rub through. They're also susceptible to degradation from oil leaking from the crank seal.
hiperfauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 08:30 PM   #16
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

It's been a while and the car was put on the back burner, but we are at it again fixing the original stall situation. After trying all the suggestions in the thread again we found that the timing belt had actually stripped off several teeth so it was spinning at the crank. This of course through the cam gear off. We are in the process of replacing the belt, but cannot seem to find the technique to remove the gears to be able to replace the oil seals?? The videos we found were all for newer engines, this again is a 1984. this one only has 2 small holes on the gear but no apparent way to lock it so you can remove the nut? One suggestion we found was to grab it with the old belt, but there is too much torque and we cant hold it still. Does anyone have a way to do this on this older engine without having to purchase a special tool?

Also, does anyone have a diagram as to how to realign the cam and crank gears? The cam timing mark is visible, but the crank is hard to tell where it is. Any good idea's for sealing the new water pump, used to use spray gasket sealer back in the day, but have not installed one like this in many years and don't want it to leak.

Thanks
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 08:33 PM   #17
Terry1941
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Federal Way, Washington
Default

Tring to see if I can get a picture of this thing so you can see what I am talking about.
Terry1941 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 08:54 PM   #18
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

To remove the timing belt. You can use the old belt wrapped around the cam or intermediate shaft sprockets. Then pull the belt tight by hand and wrap it around the timing tensioner stud. Holding it around the stud clamp a vise grip over the folded belt on the stud. This protects the stud and won't let the sprocket turn. You can use this for both sprockets.

The crank uses a small pointer in the aluminum front cover. It's hard to see but it's there between the insides of the belt.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration.

1993 245 Classic, 435k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47.

Last edited by dl242gt; 07-26-2021 at 08:55 PM.. Reason: spelling correction
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 10:22 PM   #19
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

The counterhold tool has a bolt that sticks through one of the holes in the cam/intermediate shaft pulley. It also works on the crank hub. Let me know if you would like to rent it and the seal installation tools.

http://hiperformanceautoservice.com/...ool9995034.jpg


You only need the 2 tools on the left. The one on the right is for B230 crank seals.

http://hiperformanceautoservice.com/...kSealTools.jpg


Here's a timing belt alignment diagram for B21/B23.

http://hiperformanceautoservice.com/...imingMarks.jpg
hiperfauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2021, 05:42 PM   #20
kyote
Living The Dream
 
kyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: La Porte TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry1941 View Post
It's been a while and the car was put on the back burner, but we are at it again fixing the original stall situation. After trying all the suggestions in the thread again we found that the timing belt had actually stripped off several teeth so it was spinning at the crank. This of course through the cam gear off. We are in the process of replacing the belt, but cannot seem to find the technique to remove the gears to be able to replace the oil seals?? The videos we found were all for newer engines, this again is a 1984. this one only has 2 small holes on the gear but no apparent way to lock it so you can remove the nut? One suggestion we found was to grab it with the old belt, but there is too much torque and we cant hold it still. Does anyone have a way to do this on this older engine without having to purchase a special tool?

Also, does anyone have a diagram as to how to realign the cam and crank gears? The cam timing mark is visible, but the crank is hard to tell where it is. Any good idea's for sealing the new water pump, used to use spray gasket sealer back in the day, but have not installed one like this in many years and don't want it to leak.

Thanks
Impact to zip off the crank pulley nuts.
To replace the seals, drill a small 3/32 or so hole, screw in a drwyall screw, use pliers to pull old seal. Press in the new seals with appropriate sized PVC pipe.
Use a straw in the #1 hole to physically find TDC, then you are set at the crank.
Use the mark on the cam cover and mark on cam to set cam timing (#1 cam lobes will be up like mouse ears).
Distributor has a timing mark if you remove the shield under the rotor, a tiny line.
This should get you close, may need to verify timing with light and adjust thusly (remove and plug the vac line at the black ignition box while setting timing).
Attached Images
File Type: gif 2010-06-10_205420_timing_marks.gif (24.6 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 2.jpg (19.4 KB, 34 views)
__________________
-78 242 tic, a kyotefab/willettrun joint
-83 245 tic, daily in progress
-14 F150 FX4 3.5 EcoBeast (Wife's)
kyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2021, 12:34 AM   #21
Otto Mattik
board member
 
Otto Mattik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Upper Midwest more or less
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry1941 View Post
will still get those Walmart battery cleaning products and try them out any. The problem could be hidden.

We replaced the rear in tank fuel pump last year. The main pump has had an annoying buzz. Could this be a culprit? She said the car had a noticeable but very brief (she said it was hard to describe) lurch before it went dead stick and she realized there was nothing there.
A mild solution of baking soda and water will also neutralize battery acid(just don't get any near the filler holes/vent caps).

__________________
Desperate need of elf assistant for interior work - Cash/Beer option $


Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=323689
Otto Mattik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.