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#1 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
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![]() Goodday to you guys!
It's time for a little project again. Bought a nice 244, Put in an nice 8K rpm ITB engine (it's on the forum) And now decided i needed an LSD. While under the car prying out the old diff my eye felt once again on the flimsy stock rear swaybar. Since it's further equipped with a 25mm front, springs, upgraded shocks and all poly bushings it's a shame to have almost no rear sway control. Sure, i could just order a thick bar bolt it on and get going but somehow the rear setup seems a bit like an emergency solution from Volvo at the time. Wouldn't it be better to mount a swaybar in a way it's actually connected to the boddy, like on the front? Searched the net for this but there ain't that much info on it. Did steal this picture that shows you guys of what i'm thinking about doing. ![]()
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Never have i ever .... Seen a 242 with two motorcycles in the back ![]() |
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#2 |
50 shades of beige
![]() Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
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![]() you want a small rear bar. dont waste time with a big one on these cars.
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#3 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Portland Oregano
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![]() mounting a sway bar like that may be helpful if it allows you to run a generic "adjustable" sway bar with multiple end link mounting positions. There are plenty of people on this forum who have put in the heavy work and have concluded that in an otherwise well setup car you'll go faster using the smallest rear bar that you can get away with.
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1990 244 DL AW70 189 Polar White -hers 1991 M5 668 Schwartz II over black nappa. -his |
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#4 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
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![]() To answer your actual question, yes, it is much better to have the sway bar mounted to the chassis for two reasons. One, you reduce the unsprung weight which has a significant effect. Two, you now have the ability to chassis tune quickly by merely moving the end link position on the sway bar.
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#5 |
cone dodging dilettante
Join Date: May 2015
Location: In bed, probably
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![]() 140s have a setup like that, I think. No reason to run that much rear bar, though. Better to work at adding grip up front than subtracting grip at the rear.
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1993 944 B230FT/M90 thread here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=345277 2x 1991 245 B230F/M47 (LeMons car, street car) I sell chips for LH 2.4! |
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#6 |
the real Towery
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: VA, USA
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![]() If you just want a project, you could certainly build something. This is the only instance I can recall seeing of a chassis mounted rear bar on a 240. It appears like it's adjustable, but I'm not sure about cockpit-adjustable. Maybe just something they could adjust if it were going to be wet v. dry.
In this pic with the bar moved towards the back of the car, the arms are as short as they can get, so the stiffest setting. if the bar were moved toward the front of the car, the arms would be much longer and it would soften up a lot. ![]() Couple more shots of that yellow car here: https://pbase.com/towerymt/240_racing&page=13 (I don't remember where these pics came from. Somewhere on the internet 15+yr ago.) |
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#7 | |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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![]() Quote:
7/8" Addco rear bars run bottom of the spring perch to the other bottom of the spring perch using ~4" x 6" 1/4" thick steel plates. IPD 140 rear bars are U bolted to the axle and the end links run forward and are anchored in the floor with reinforcement plates under the lower rear bench seat. |
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#8 |
cone dodging dilettante
Join Date: May 2015
Location: In bed, probably
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#9 |
Board Member
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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![]() Asking out of legitimate curiosity: What driving or handling characteristics are you looking to achieve with this?
Most folks I know seem to advocate for smaller rear sways or none at all. |
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#10 |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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#11 |
Old and boxy but good.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
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![]() Sorry but I'm jacking this thread because of the tennis balls. What is the idea behind packing your spring with balls? I've never seen that.
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Dave, 1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration. 1993 245 Classic, 435k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47. ![]() |
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#12 | |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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![]() Quote:
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#13 |
Salaminizer
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Reading pa
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![]() I've seen footballs in there before on a Jeep lol, probably cost more than the airbag that is made to go inside the spring.
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Feedback thread https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=144924 1978 242, 5.3 L33 1979 242, MS, R brakes 2006 V50 T5 AWD @ 17 PSI |
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#14 | |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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![]() Quote:
![]() On the bright side it / I didn't sag another set of stock springs as I had already swapped the IPD overloads to the 82 GLT and the turbo's springs onto the 145 as evidenced by the 240 upper perches. |
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#15 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() I thought about doing that but decided i like the way it handles with stiffer springs and less bar.
But for inspiration, here is a corolla with hollow adjustable cobbling action. ![]() |
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#16 |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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#17 |
Board Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Sweat zone, Arizona
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#18 |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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#19 |
cone dodging dilettante
Join Date: May 2015
Location: In bed, probably
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![]() Oversteer = lack of rear grip
Understeer = lack of front grip If a stiffer rear bar increases likelihood of oversteer, what is it doing to the level of grip in the rear of the car? |
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#20 |
Board Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Sweat zone, Arizona
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![]() Is there somewhere I can read more into 240s suspension geometry and handling, reading elsewhere I saw just a straight up suspension lowering job is nothing more than cosmetic without proper geometry adjustments and I’d like to look more into it so I’m not chasing problems when I start doing suspension work
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#21 | |
- Stock PSI Or Bust -
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ocean Beach S.F.
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![]() Quote:
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#22 |
Board Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
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![]() I run a 1" rear bar on my V8 wagon Custom made by IPD 30+ years ago [made to clear the dual exhaust], stock front bar. The rear bar made the car handle much better, remember the car is a wagon, top heavy. The car is very neutral, Koni sport adj shocks at all four corners, lowered 2". As far as mounting a rear sway bar I have seen body mounted bars, and axle mounted bars, they all do the same thing. Body mounts reduce un sprung weight, axle mounts add weight
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#23 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() less roll will always make a car feel more confidence-inspiring. Same with more damping.
Too much rear bar on soft springs will lift the inside tire on exit, something volvos gleefully exhibit. Same with too much damping. Watch an autocross vid of a stock class BMW. The ones with a big front bar and konis cranked full counter-clockwise lift the front tires in an odd way. But they are almost always open diff cars, and they need the traction on turn exits. And early rules only allowed changing the front bar. "push" is understeer in dirt track talk. |
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#24 | |||
the real Towery
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: VA, USA
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![]() Quote:
Quote:
![]() here's where I messed with more rear springs (includes tender spring) to get more supported droop travel. I also softened the rear spring rate from, I believe, 325lb to 250lb (main) at the same time. It did help with rear grip(traction) http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...22#post3296622 No rear bar on my car at this time. I pretty much dumped the rear bar when I stopped autocrossing on street tires and got enough camber on the front (at least -2) to get it to turn in. On ~0.8 deg. negative camber with stock-diameter front springs, and street tires, I had a big rear bar and the car was loose, but turned, and was fast when I got it right (fast relative to itself, but I sometimes beat faster cars with slower drivers) The final iteration never got close to sorted out. Probably needed to look at roll centers or something to try and keep the car on the ground ![]() ![]() (this was slightly off camber, so helping the car lift off a bit more than just flat steady state cornering) Quote:
![]() ![]() ------------------------- One comment I still remember from mikeP was about using a big rear bar with a welded diff, to get it to turn. With a locked diff, you're not worried as much about hiking the inside tire because you'll still have drive off the corner. But if you get to the point of overpowering your tire(s), then you'll need to reconsider. ------------------------- Drive it first and see what it needs. I made changes based on results & testing, having taken a baseline from other proven setups. Anthony Hyde's page if it's still around had a lot of good info on it about 240 suspension. |
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#25 |
Living The Dream
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: La Porte TX
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![]() While not directly 240 related, this is required reading IMO on suspension setup.
It is dated but a lot of the fundamentals have not changed. https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your.../dp/0912656468 |
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