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Old 06-01-2021, 05:24 PM   #1
marcusj2001
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Default B230 compound/sequential turbos

Hello. This is my Volvo 740 project. It's a Volvo 744 with a B230FT turbo from the start with a stock 13c that was quickly replaced with a t3/t4 turbo. But a liked the bottom end torque with the 13c for towing and drivability. But the 13c runs out of air so at the top end the t3/t4 was better so why not combine the two. So that is what I'm doing

But the 13c turbo is getting replaced with a 16t turbo for some more power down low.

picture of cad drawing(Not finish) But you get the ide. And what it looks looks like in the car right now. More parts are on there way and will likely arrive later this week







The wastegate between the two turbos is for back pressure control and how much the small turbo work.

Everything will be control by a Megasquirt 3X
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Old 06-01-2021, 05:54 PM   #2
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That looks great! Keep us updated!
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Old 06-04-2021, 04:53 PM   #3
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Now the last of the parts has come and i will start to make everything fit tomorrow and hope to make it run on Sunday or next weekend. We will see on Sunday.





The 16t vs the 13c.

More updates tomorrow.

Last edited by marcusj2001; 06-04-2021 at 04:59 PM..
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Old 06-04-2021, 05:12 PM   #4
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I do need to learn how to weld...
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Old 06-04-2021, 05:28 PM   #5
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what boost are you expecting to run? and doesnt the charge temp get too high when you compound it without a ic inbetween the turbos
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Old 06-04-2021, 05:50 PM   #6
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Boost on normal 95/98 petrol, Somewhere around 1.3 to 1.5 bar (19 to 22 psi) and on e85 around 2 to 2.5 bar (29 to 37 psi). I need to test and see how hot the intake temp will get, If it get to hot i will fit a water to air intercooler in between the two turbos or a bypass valve to the big turbo so it goes directly in to the intercooler and not through the small turbo. More like a sequential turbo setup.
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:45 PM   #7
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It's pretty easy to get the temp rise by compressing air, especially if you just assume a compressor efficiency of 100%.
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Old 06-04-2021, 06:59 PM   #8
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Hi Marcus,
Are you adjusting boost with MS3 via a 3 way actuator valve?


Thanks
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Old 06-05-2021, 02:33 AM   #9
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Hi Marcus,
Are you adjusting boost with MS3 via a 3 way actuator valve?


Thanks
Hubert
Yes and there will be 3 actuator valves, 1 for each wastegate. So that I can adjust how hard the turbos works
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Old 06-05-2021, 06:26 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by marcusj2001 View Post
Yes and there will be 3 actuator valves, 1 for each wastegate. So that I can adjust how hard the turbos works

Ok. So you have one for each turbo and one in between? You using just one output from ms3 to control all 3 simultaneously? Is the point the best of both worlds? Fast spool up and big boost? Im assuming Ms3 doesn't have anti-lag options?


Regards
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Old 06-05-2021, 08:14 AM   #11
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Interested in how this turns out.
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
Ok. So you have one for each turbo and one in between? You using just one output from ms3 to control all 3 simultaneously? Is the point the best of both worlds? Fast spool up and big boost? Im assuming Ms3 doesn't have anti-lag options?



Regards
Hubert
it does, or at the very least it has user configurable tables that could work as such. I'm a little curious about using a single valve to control it all as well.

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Interested in how this turns out.
me too, this is pretty neat
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Last edited by linuxman51; 06-05-2021 at 09:01 AM.. Reason: put my reply in the quotes whoops
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:05 AM   #13
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Thanks Marcus!
I will pm you instead.


Regards
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
Ok. So you have one for each turbo and one in between? You using just one output from ms3 to control all 3 simultaneously? Is the point the best of both worlds? Fast spool up and big boost? Im assuming Ms3 doesn't have anti-lag options?


Regards
Hubert
I will be using 3 individual outputs from the megasquirt to control the actuators. The two to the turbos will be controlled by the megasquirt closet loop boost control and the wastegate to control back pressure will be on a open loop table for now.

And yes the megasquirt has anti lag setting.

Yea I wonted the fast spool of a small turbo and the power of a bigger turbo.

Excuse my English it’s not my native language
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj2001 View Post
Yes and there will be 3 actuator valves, 1 for each wastegate. So that I can adjust how hard the turbos works
skimmed over this response, this makes a lot more sense now. looking forward to seeing it running
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by marcusj2001 View Post
I will be using 3 individual outputs from the megasquirt to control the actuators. The two to the turbos will be controlled by the megasquirt closet loop boost control and the wastegate to control back pressure will be on a open loop table for now.

And yes the megasquirt has anti lag setting.

Yea I wonted the fast spool of a small turbo and the power of a bigger turbo.

Excuse my English it’s not my native language
Thank you Marcus. You don't have worry. I'm not one on this board that cares where you are from or how good or bad your English and grammar is. Im intelligent enough to deduce what you are telling me regardless. I understand how it works now with three dedicated pulse width modulated outputs to control the boost. If it isn't proprietary will you show the boost and anti lag tables and how they will correspond with one another? I have heard though that anti lag puts stress on the valves. I know the original b21ft's had sodium filled exhaust valves. I assume this was for heat stabilization. The built engine of course only has stainless steel valves. Volvo did some pretty slick sht long ago. Thats partly why Im such a fan of the Swedish engineering. Its always been impressive to me.



A side not about language and origins.

I know from there it sometimes reads bad what you see here but Im not involved with that mindset of some people here wrapped around language or where you are from. Of course you probably know "Hubert" is German meaning bright minded and intelligent. Granny wasn't interested in the typical stereotypical names like Leroy or Bubba even though Leroy is one that actually has French ties meaning king. Its never pronounced correctly here by an American nation of grammar teachers. Go figure..... Nevertheless she set a standard to not allow her descendants be stereotyped by using names like Cleopatra, Ingrid, Mischa, and Hubert to describe them and expected us to live up to them. The only thing I remember you were really punished for in my parents household growing up was for poor academic performance or not sharing with your siblings.

I've added you to my international contact list. So now you can easily send me private messages directly.

Thank you for your time and patience
Hubert

Last edited by hk 40; 06-05-2021 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 06-05-2021, 10:34 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
Thank you Marcus. You don't have worry. I'm not one on this board that cares where you are from or how good or bad your English and grammar is. Im intelligent enough to deduce what you are telling me regardless. I understand how it works now with three dedicated pulse width modulated outputs to control the boost. If it isn't proprietary will you show the boost and anti lag tables and how they will correspond with one another? I have heard though that anti lag puts stress on the valves. I know the original b21ft's had sodium filled exhaust valves. I assume this was for heat stabilization. The built engine of course only has stainless steel valves. Volvo did some pretty slick sht long ago. Thats partly why Im such a fan of the Swedish engineering. Its always been impressive to me.

I will try my best to show how it all works in tuner studio(megasquirt tuning software). I will start without the anti lag stuff on and see how it all work and maybe turn it on later.

The engine as it sits now has original valves and piston but stronger connection rods and a bigger camshaft.
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Old 06-05-2021, 10:37 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by marcusj2001 View Post
I will try my best to show how it all works in tuner studio(megasquirt tuning software). I will start without the anti lag stuff on and see how it all work and maybe turn it on later.

The engine as it sits now has original valves and piston but stronger connection rods and a bigger camshaft.

Im sure the board would appreciate that. Im not sure what the valves are like in the b230FT motor but it sounds like a plan.

TTYL
Hubert

Last edited by hk 40; 06-05-2021 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 06-05-2021, 05:15 PM   #19
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Is this a Maxxecu project ? :D
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Old 06-05-2021, 06:15 PM   #20
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Is this a Maxxecu project ? :D
No a megasquirt 3X Project
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Old 06-08-2021, 08:47 PM   #21
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Greetings Marcus,
Have u made any progress?

Regards,
Hubert
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:08 PM   #22
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Neat. So the exhaust goes through the big turbo then into the little one, or is it split up somehow?
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:44 PM   #23
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Neat. So the exhaust goes through the big turbo then into the little one, or is it split up somehow?
It goes through the small turbo first then the big turbo. But there is a wastegate between the to turbos to allow the exhaust to bypass the small turbo when the back pressure gets over the boost pressure. To keep the boost to back pressure ratio of 1:1 or more boost then back pressure.

But I will start by controlling the wastegate in between the turbos by the pressure in the manifold and set it to open at around 20 psi. So it will redirect the exhaust to the big turbo and by doing that it will decrease the back pressure in the exhaust to.
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:56 PM   #24
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Greetings Marcus,
Have u made any progress?

Regards,
Hubert
Yes, but it's wiring so it takes so long to do. But almost done with the engine harness some connectors left and I have started with the exhaust manifold. I'm doing that on a spare engine and cylinder head so i can mockup out of the car and only test fit it in the car. So when it's all done I only have to bolt it in and I can start the car and go for a test drive
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:20 AM   #25
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why not just get a modern twin scroll turbo instead of messing around with such an outdated and complex setup? Both of those turbos have designs that are over 30 years old...
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