940 Engine locked - Page 2

dl242gt · 07-10-2021, 06:29 PM

I use a mix of atf and penetrating oil. Gets them free.

dalek · 07-10-2021, 09:38 PM

Did you check the cylinders and pistons rusted together?

hessam69 · 07-10-2021, 09:56 PM

I will as soon as I can borrow my brothers borescope

hessam69 · 07-13-2021, 12:25 AM

#4 piston found to be underwater

Thanks everyone

dl242gt · 07-13-2021, 03:49 PM

Glad you got that figured out. It was a sneaky problem.

hessam69 · 07-13-2021, 06:10 PM

Me too, what helped is clues from the PO about the cooling system being suspect.

A friend told me to WD-40 the water, fill it with diesel, let it soak, keep filling it, then rocking the crank back and forth so it eventually breaks free. I'd like to salvage this engine if I can, it's a B230FB

Otto Mattik · 07-14-2021, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hessam69

Me too, what helped is clues from the PO about the cooling system being suspect.

A friend told me to WD-40 the water, fill it with diesel, let it soak, keep filling it, then rocking the crank back and forth so it eventually breaks free. I'd like to salvage this engine if I can, it's a B230FB

- water/coolant in the crank ?

- planning to Gerry-rig a shop vac and get that water out, or soak it out ?

- always heard transmission fluid, ...but diesel eh ?

hessam69 · 07-14-2021, 05:56 PM

Hello,

I was just planning to blow out the water from #4 piston with compressed air, fill it up with diesel, let it soak, then keep repeating until I can unseize it. Diesel is lighter than ATF so in theory should get between the rings easier

TestPoint · 07-14-2021, 06:04 PM

Diesel is not going to hurt anything but probably would be more effective with some ATF added. ATF is the 'go-to' seized nut solvent.

2manyturbos · 07-14-2021, 06:41 PM

ATF or PB Blaster. Also, Marvel Mystery oil is good for freeing up stuck engines.

FreeEMSFred · 07-14-2021, 08:45 PM

Dare I suggest some light acid like vinegar or oxalic? Phosphoric would eat the piston too fast. You'd want to soften the rust before the oil step, but if it's "too late" you could rinse with solvent and blow with compressed air to get dry/oil free again. FWIW I've run concentrated oxalic in 3 cooling sytstems (toyota 4k, B234F, and something else) now to clear out corrosion from previous owners, worked well for me even driving around on it to keep it hot and flowing. Bore is already damaged, softening the rust that way might make for less damage, not more, but chances are it'll have dubious compression and probably smoke from that cylinder. YMMV.

2 old for this · 07-15-2021, 08:18 AM

Kroll

kyote · 07-15-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeEMSFred

Dare I suggest some light acid like vinegar or oxalic? Phosphoric would eat the piston too fast. You'd want to soften the rust before the oil step, but if it's "too late" you could rinse with solvent and blow with compressed air to get dry/oil free again. FWIW I've run concentrated oxalic in 3 cooling sytstems (toyota 4k, B234F, and something else) now to clear out corrosion from previous owners, worked well for me even driving around on it to keep it hot and flowing. Bore is already damaged, softening the rust that way might make for less damage, not more, but chances are it'll have dubious compression and probably smoke from that cylinder. YMMV.

Available at the hardware store as Wood Bleach, Oxalic Acid that is.
Definitely a great cleaner for the cooling system, used a sump pump in a bucket to pump through an old SBC that was full of rust to great success.

If it was me, I'd use MMO to unstick it out of habit.
Realistically, Panther Piss AKA 50/50 AKA ATF/Acetone mix would probably be the best.

2manyturbos · 07-15-2021, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 old for this

Kroll

It's Kroil.

https://www.kroil.com/?gclid=EAIaIQo...iAAEgJvr_D_BwE

dl242gt · 07-15-2021, 07:46 PM

It's Kroil and it's not going to be available in OZ. I use it and it's one of the best penetrants I've used. I used it on a seized engine. A 50/50 mix of ATF and Kroil, and it broke that engine free after a week of sitting in it. The engine was seized from sitting in my barn for well over ten years. My 123gt engine cylinders were doused with Kroil when I started letting it sit. 15 years later the engine is fine and had good compression.

2 old for this · 07-16-2021, 08:40 AM

I bought a 1958 444 decades ago with a seized engine. Popped the head off and was lucky that none of the pistons were at tdc. Filled them with atf and Kroil. Let it work while I was at the 1976 new model school. Got a piece of wood about cylinder diameter and a favorite hammer. Every day it got a wack. One day it moved. Reinstalled the head and got it running. Drove it for many years until it grew a picture window.

2manyturbos · 07-16-2021, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 old for this

I bought a 1958 444 decades ago with a seized engine. Popped the head off and was lucky that none of the pistons were at tdc. Filled them with atf and Kroil. Let it work while I was at the 1976 new model school. Got a piece of wood about cylinder diameter and a favorite hammer. Every day it got a wack. One day it moved. Reinstalled the head and got it running. Drove it for many years until it grew a picture window.

FreeEMSFred · 07-17-2021, 07:52 AM

Wood bleach, and also marketed as "bore cleaner" for sterilising water sources.

h20ham · 07-17-2021, 10:03 PM

You took off ps and alt etc belts?

hessam69 · 07-18-2021, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h20ham

You took off ps and alt etc belts?

No, no need

The first problem I have is getting the water out. There is so much in there that using the air compressor does nothing - What's a good way of extracting the water? I also tried to use a syringe, but that was also hopeless.

Khrrck · 07-18-2021, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hessam69

No, no need

The first problem I have is getting the water out. There is so much in there that using the air compressor does nothing - What's a good way of extracting the water? I also tried to use a syringe, but that was also hopeless.

Take the head off? Then you'll be able to see the situation better too.

Janspeed · 07-18-2021, 07:44 AM

may be leave the spark plug out, hand crank the engine a few cycles, then spin it over on the starter. I think that will get most coolant out.
BUT, the coolant did not magically end up inside that cylinder, it had to come from somewhere. Most likely from a blown head gasket. So, maybe it is best to pull the head off right away so you can remove the coolant and reassemble it with a new fresh head gasket.

Otto Mattik · 07-19-2021, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hessam69

No, no need

The first problem I have is getting the water out. There is so much in there that using the air compressor does nothing - What's a good way of extracting the water? I also tried to use a syringe, but that was also hopeless.

How about try rig a shop vac, put the thinnest tip on vac, and tape a long tube narrow enough to get into where you need it to go ?

07-10-2021, 09:38 PM	#27
dalek Benchracer Tribe Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Orange Alert, NC	Did you check the cylinders and pistons rusted together? __________________ "you can't leave your thingy hanging in public... you can get arrested." "What's Arkansas supposed to be, Kansas for pirates?" Forg "I think I can touch the tire. Damn! I can touch the tire! That hurts!" 240Psycho (on the back seat of my 94 Jetta while I was driving to a J/Y) "Use the barbed adapter like what I use to inflate the air camping mattresses and my dates." FTF Engineering i am inspired. i will replace my windsheild... with an intercooler.swedishK Feedback!

07-14-2021, 06:04 PM	#34
TestPoint Board Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ellijay	Diesel is not going to hurt anything but probably would be more effective with some ATF added. ATF is the 'go-to' seized nut solvent. __________________ 1982 Volvo 245 with a Ford 302 V8 Ford V8 Conversion Manual - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=250257 Bertone Restoration - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=256460

07-14-2021, 08:45 PM	#36
FreeEMSFred Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Kiwiland	Dare I suggest some light acid like vinegar or oxalic? Phosphoric would eat the piston too fast. You'd want to soften the rust before the oil step, but if it's "too late" you could rinse with solvent and blow with compressed air to get dry/oil free again. FWIW I've run concentrated oxalic in 3 cooling sytstems (toyota 4k, B234F, and something else) now to clear out corrosion from previous owners, worked well for me even driving around on it to keep it hot and flowing. Bore is already damaged, softening the rust that way might make for less damage, not more, but chances are it'll have dubious compression and probably smoke from that cylinder. YMMV. __________________ FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system My Volvo Adventure (No 56k). My non-Volvo turbo truck. My gold 1991 240 wagon! My blue 1990 740 16v sedan!

07-15-2021, 07:46 PM	#40
dl242gt Old and boxy but good. Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.	It's Kroil and it's not going to be available in OZ. I use it and it's one of the best penetrants I've used. I used it on a seized engine. A 50/50 mix of ATF and Kroil, and it broke that engine free after a week of sitting in it. The engine was seized from sitting in my barn for well over ten years. My 123gt engine cylinders were doused with Kroil when I started letting it sit. 15 years later the engine is fine and had good compression. Last edited by dl242gt; 07-15-2021 at 07:47 PM.. Reason: spelling correction

07-17-2021, 10:03 PM	#44
h20ham Board Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: W. Kootenays BC	You took off ps and alt etc belts? __________________ How did you get here

07-10-2021, 06:29 PM	#26
dl242gt Old and boxy but good. Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.	I use a mix of atf and penetrating oil. Gets them free.

07-10-2021, 09:56 PM	#28
hessam69 Board Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia	I will as soon as I can borrow my brothers borescope

07-13-2021, 12:25 AM	#29
hessam69 Board Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia	#4 piston found to be underwater Thanks everyone

07-13-2021, 03:49 PM	#30
dl242gt Old and boxy but good. Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.	Glad you got that figured out. It was a sneaky problem.

07-13-2021, 06:10 PM	#31
hessam69 Board Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia	Me too, what helped is clues from the PO about the cooling system being suspect. A friend told me to WD-40 the water, fill it with diesel, let it soak, keep filling it, then rocking the crank back and forth so it eventually breaks free. I'd like to salvage this engine if I can, it's a B230FB

07-14-2021, 05:56 PM	#33
hessam69 Board Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia	Hello, I was just planning to blow out the water from #4 piston with compressed air, fill it up with diesel, let it soak, then keep repeating until I can unseize it. Diesel is lighter than ATF so in theory should get between the rings easier

07-14-2021, 06:41 PM	#35
2manyturbos Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Monroe, OR USA	ATF or PB Blaster. Also, Marvel Mystery oil is good for freeing up stuck engines.

07-15-2021, 08:18 AM	#37
2 old for this Board Member Join Date: Mar 2018	Kroll

07-16-2021, 08:40 AM	#41
2 old for this Board Member Join Date: Mar 2018	I bought a 1958 444 decades ago with a seized engine. Popped the head off and was lucky that none of the pistons were at tdc. Filled them with atf and Kroil. Let it work while I was at the 1976 new model school. Got a piece of wood about cylinder diameter and a favorite hammer. Every day it got a wack. One day it moved. Reinstalled the head and got it running. Drove it for many years until it grew a picture window.

07-17-2021, 07:52 AM	#43
FreeEMSFred Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Kiwiland	Wood bleach, and also marketed as "bore cleaner" for sterilising water sources.

07-18-2021, 07:44 AM	#47
Janspeed Board Member Join Date: Sep 2005	may be leave the spark plug out, hand crank the engine a few cycles, then spin it over on the starter. I think that will get most coolant out. BUT, the coolant did not magically end up inside that cylinder, it had to come from somewhere. Most likely from a blown head gasket. So, maybe it is best to pull the head off right away so you can remove the coolant and reassemble it with a new fresh head gasket.

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