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Old 01-13-2020, 05:21 PM   #1
240ned
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Question Penta swap on a budget

Now, forgive me for starting a thread but this is really confusing me.
I recently acquired a 16 valve penta engine (not sure if 2.3 or 2.5) and i want to swap into my 240 wagon on a budget as this is my first car and dont have much money to spend. Ive been advised to change crank as apparently these are a weak point but if im not building a terribly fast motor just yet is that a problem? Id like to use the original block as i know its in good shape and has all the internals with it. Now, what are the basic bits i absolutely need to purchase or modify to convert this to fit in a 240? Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:30 PM   #2
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I don't think the crank is an issue. Unless whoever said that was talking about center thrust cranks? But that's nothing you can reasonably swap out on an engine (crank *and* block).

I'm not sure what the motor mount issues are with a Penta 16V motor - but at least it's not a B234 car 16V motor - those are certainly different when it comes to mounts. You might get lucky enough to have 240 motor mounts bolt onto it.

You didn't mention a turbo, so I'll assume normally aspirated? You'll need to find a b234 exhaust manifold and downpipe for the exhaust side of the engine.

For the itnake side - there's a bit of an issue. The B234 car intake doesn't fit straight into the 240 - it interferes with the brake booster/master cylinder. Two options - have the intake shortened some, or find a B234 700/900 series 'skinny' brake booster and install that along with the 16V car intake.

Ignition - I think the Penta motors have head mounted distributors - which won't fit into a 240 (no room between the head and firewall unless you use a BFH, and use it a lot). Easier to swap to a block mounted dist - using the intermediate shaft and distributor from your car.

ECU: What year is your current car? I was using Megasquirt for mine, so it was easy, but on my first whack at a 16V car I used all the wiring harness and sensors from my previous LH2.4 8V motor. The 16V Motor would just work better with a B234 engine and ignition ECU.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
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For the itnake side - there's a bit of an issue. The B234 car intake doesn't fit straight into the 240 - it interferes with the brake booster/master cylinder. Two options - have the intake shortened some, or find a B234 700/900 series 'skinny' brake booster and install that along with the 16V car intake.
That wouldn't be an issue for RH drive would it?

He's in England.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
I don't think the crank is an issue. Unless whoever said that was talking about center thrust cranks? But that's nothing you can reasonably swap out on an engine (crank *and* block).

I'm not sure what the motor mount issues are with a Penta 16V motor - but at least it's not a B234 car 16V motor - those are certainly different when it comes to mounts. You might get lucky enough to have 240 motor mounts bolt onto it.

You didn't mention a turbo, so I'll assume normally aspirated? You'll need to find a b234 exhaust manifold and downpipe for the exhaust side of the engine.

For the itnake side - there's a bit of an issue. The B234 car intake doesn't fit straight into the 240 - it interferes with the brake booster/master cylinder. Two options - have the intake shortened some, or find a B234 700/900 series 'skinny' brake booster and install that along with the 16V car intake.

Ignition - I think the Penta motors have head mounted distributors - which won't fit into a 240 (no room between the head and firewall unless you use a BFH, and use it a lot). Easier to swap to a block mounted dist - using the intermediate shaft and distributor from your car.

ECU: What year is your current car? I was using Megasquirt for mine, so it was easy, but on my first whack at a 16V car I used all the wiring harness and sensors from my previous LH2.4 8V motor. The 16V Motor would just work better with a B234 engine and ignition ECU.
Hi John, Thanks, Yes definitely NA, something about turboing a car seems a bit like cheating to me. The block says b230 on it so im assuming its exactly the same block as in a roadgoing b230 so the mount will fit but ill have to check that. The car is 1991 so running some sort of fuel injection im not sure which one but if i can switch to a better set up for cheap then im all for it. However it looks like the b234 setup is better or is that with the megasquirt? So i need to look for potentially a donor b234 motor or someone whose broken one to strip the harness, intake and exhaust manifolds.
Cheers.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:47 PM   #5
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That wouldn't be an issue for RH drive would it?

He's in England.
The brake booster is on the right hand side of the bay looking at it from the front, im assuming the same as in the US?
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:25 PM   #6
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All the 16v penata motors have a stroked 2.5L billet steel crank. I'd keep that. Better then all the cast car cranks. People buy just those for 700 buxs. The pistons have a shorter crown height. Rods same as car 2.3L rods length wise. Yes it's a b230 block and will drop right in your 240 mount wise.

You could then run LH 2.4 with wasted spark no distributor needed and stock NA 16v fuel and ignition boxes. 928 ecu, 147 ezk with wasted spark board installed.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:25 PM   #7
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Can you post pics of the factory timing belt and tensioner setup? Just curious I don't have any answers to your questions.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:30 PM   #8
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HI
I have done this but into a amazon estate
I am in England
can i ask what is cheep
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:30 PM   #9
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:36 AM   #10
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HI
I have done this but into a amazon estate
I am in England
can i ask what is cheep
$14.99
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:22 AM   #11
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I recommend you sell the engine, invest in tools, and get experience while doing "Stage Zero" to the rig.

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Old 01-14-2020, 07:19 AM   #12
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Can you post pics of the factory timing belt and tensioner setup? Just curious I don't have any answers to your questions.
Of the penta engine?
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:20 AM   #13
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HI
I have done this but into a amazon estate
I am in England
can i ask what is cheep
Id say under a grand for definite maybe looking at £600?
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:42 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by 240ned View Post
Of the penta engine?
Yes, just curious, there are solutions for the 16v swap but I think it involves a VW tensioner, just wanted to see what the factory did.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:01 PM   #15
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I looked at the Penta timing belt setup when I did my 16V swap, but IIRC it was just spendier, and used rarer parts. The Yoshifab kit just uses a more common whiteblock belt and tensioners.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
Yes, just curious, there are solutions for the 16v swap but I think it involves a VW tensioner, just wanted to see what the factory did.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...-wW2HaIEIcfIiM
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
All the 16v penata motors have a stroked 2.5L billet steel crank. I'd keep that. Better then all the cast car cranks. People buy just those for 700 buxs. The pistons have a shorter crown height. Rods same as car 2.3L rods length wise. Yes it's a b230 block and will drop right in your 240 mount wise.

You could then run LH 2.4 with wasted spark no distributor needed and stock NA 16v fuel and ignition boxes. 928 ecu, 147 ezk with wasted spark board installed.
Is that set up better than a standard b234 harness and ecu?
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:27 PM   #18
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Do you not see the penta 16v motor I posted with the belt and tensioner? Anyway you should use a 240 LH 2.4 harness in your 240. Then grab some 16v 2.4 puters like I stated. No do not use any 7 series b234 harness. Yeah the 240 lh 2.4 harness made for a 240 and it's pretty much stand alone harness. You didn't say what year 240 you got or what fuel injerksion your running so who knows what you got in jolly old england. When I was in london in 99 I bought an 85 244 for 100 pounds and drove it around all week and it had a carburetor...

Sounds to me like your young and ambitious but on the right track, just keep reading and tell us more about your glorious 240, like everything, color and truck nuts hanging lenght. Everything.


The factory belt is 146 teeth. It uses one tensioner. The alignment marks on the cam gears will line up perfectly with it. Unlike using a longer 850 belt they won't. The VW tensioner is just like the penta one but you have to put a washer behind it to move it out a little bit. Also you gotta drill and tap that tensioner hole for the next bigger hole size. That is all. YOu can buy the faxall belt on ebay for 15 buxs it's same as penta belt, made by gates (#5129) or any other major tom belt maker. Want the number look in the dam 16 valve thread how to the last page... Also the vw tensioner numero in there also for 20 buxs..

https://www.turbobricks.net/forums/s...t=31900&page=4

Read all that, heck go back and start on page one..

Last edited by sbabbs; 01-14-2020 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:11 PM   #19
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Hi
well I dont think you can do it for a 1000 pounds
sbabbs has given you all the info you need
you will also need jack shaft to drive the distributor
cut down distributor different cap
price the bits if you can find them
have you got the Bendix ingtion module ?
if you have you might be able to do carbs
thats how i did it
twin carbs
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:16 PM   #20
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Hi
why dont you just turbo the 240 engine thats in the car
you can do that for under 1000
and do it in a weekend

Last edited by grumpy dad; 01-14-2020 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
Do you not see the penta 16v motor I posted with the belt and tensioner? Anyway you should use a 240 LH 2.4 harness in your 240. Then grab some 16v 2.4 puters like I stated. No do not use any 7 series b234 harness. Yeah the 240 lh 2.4 harness made for a 240 and it's pretty much stand alone harness. You didn't say what year 240 you got or what fuel injerksion your running so who knows what you got in jolly old england. When I was in london in 99 I bought an 85 244 for 100 pounds and drove it around all week and it had a carburetor...

Sounds to me like your young and ambitious but on the right track, just keep reading and tell us more about your glorious 240, like everything, color and truck nuts hanging lenght. Everything.


The factory belt is 146 teeth. It uses one tensioner. The alignment marks on the cam gears will line up perfectly with it. Unlike using a longer 850 belt they won't. The VW tensioner is just like the penta one but you have to put a washer behind it to move it out a little bit. Also you gotta drill and tap that tensioner hole for the next bigger hole size. That is all. YOu can buy the faxall belt on ebay for 15 buxs it's same as penta belt, made by gates (#5129) or any other major tom belt maker. Want the number look in the dam 16 valve thread how to the last page... Also the vw tensioner numero in there also for 20 buxs..

https://www.turbobricks.net/forums/s...t=31900&page=4

Read all that, heck go back and start on page one..
Cheers sbabbs,
Its a silver 1991 240 2.0 with what i am 90% sure is lh 2.4, yes i see what you mean about using a 240 lh2.4 harness as a harness from a b234 engined car would be from a whole different shell. Ive looked into that wasted spark system you mentioned, seems a lot better than having to run a distributor because doesn't it not clear the head or something? Just a quick one if you know, how does the ecu or ezk or whatever know when to fire the sparks if there is no crank sensor telling it when the engine is so far through its cycle because surely ditching the distributor, it wouldnt know when to fire the spark. Or do you set that up some other way?
Thanks a lot

Edit: I think lh2.4 has a crank sensor after reading through that thread so don't worry.

Last edited by 240ned; 01-15-2020 at 06:35 AM..
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:19 AM   #22
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Hi
why dont you just turbo the 240 engine thats in the car
you can do that for under 1000
and do it in a weekend
Wanted a little project to do over a year to keep me busy and as its a 2.0, i thought any mods to that engine would be pointless as i could just do the same with better results to a 2.3 block so i started looking for a cheap 2.3. Then somehow (dont ask me how) managed to acquire a penta block for free and have decided to go down this route. Turbos don't really appeal to me not sure why might be cus im british
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:44 AM   #23
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if you use a block mounted dizzy you will not be able to remove it without taking the head off not a big deal, but yoshifab sells a shortened one if you want one. Also I have been told that even with the skinny brake booster it doesn't really fit, so another solution while its not something anyone has tried but I bet you could use a hydrobooster of an early 2000s mustang and it will clear it, plus you will get better braking performance. something else to know is while the b234f intake flows just fine it is known to have significant flow imbalance to the cylinders so if you have any welding skills it would be best to use the prefolded plenum kit yoshifab sells.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:18 PM   #24
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There is not much space in the engine bay to swap a 16v head in a right-hand-drive 240.
https://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~a...urbo_volvo.htm
(assuming RHD since OP is in the UK)

I suspect the brake booster will be the main issue.
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