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Old 09-23-2021, 02:48 PM   #676
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So.
My last button has been pushed. After finalising the fuel system and achieving a rock-steady 2.5 psi out of the OE in-tank transfer pump...the rear carb decided to puke again. There's nothing more I can do. The floats are already set at 15 mm, and there's a genuine weber needle valve in the leaky carb, with the proper droop setting and everything. I'm officially giving up on these chinese pieces of junk and beginning the hunt for some genuine 40s (45s are just too big for my setup/driving style). This might mean my car is done for the season though, since it would be aggravating to have to switch back to the dual ZS setup after all this work. Sigh.

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Old 09-26-2021, 08:30 PM   #677
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I last-ditched tried an inline carter pump that the aircooled crowd uses that is only 15 GPH and ~3.5 psi and removed the in-tank pump. I used a traditional inline regulator placed before the carbs...and it still overflowed at a regulated 2.5 psi. These pieces of chinese crap are coming off, getting stripped for parts, and getting smashed with a hammer (video to follow).

So, I'll either swap back to the dual ZS setup (which I don't want to do) or throw the overly-rich Dellortos on for a week so I can drive to a car show near my house next weekend. The main reason I don't want to remove the DCOE manifold is because I have a nice package coming from British Columbia, thanks to GTJordan...and it'd be a shame to not have the DCOE manifold on the car when the package arrives...;).

The lesson learned here is that chinese weber clones are not always useable. Some people have great success...but not me this time. The metered parts inside them do seem to measure out properly, so that's good at least.
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Old 10-03-2021, 12:19 PM   #678
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Got the car set up on the dual ZS carbs for a car show this weekend...and it rained both days. So since I didn't go I decided to check the valve lash, which I've suspected was a problem for a while now.

Boy was I right. 4 of them were at 0.30 mm (yeah, I did it in metric...I'm Canadian), one was at 0.33 mm, two were at 0.28 mm, and one was at 0.25 mm! So they're all way too tight, which explains a few things. Now I've got to get the tools and re-shim, but I should have checked it when I put the engine in. It's a rebuilt Penta AQ140A, and they must have been going for max power with the D-cam.

[edit]This head (well, whole engine) has been refurbished at some point, because boat enthusiasts love spending money, and I believe there was some work done to the head that they didn't compensate for at the valves. I'm gonna say that at least one of the seats was re-cut, because there's no reason for such a huge difference in clearances. I pulled the shims out of a spare 530 and they were all the same, so I'm very suspicious. I pulled out all the hushers (which were still soft, which definitely shows the head has been redone) and re-measured the clearances just to be safe, and everything was mostly the same.

Last edited by Broke4speed; 10-03-2021 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 10-05-2021, 08:38 PM   #679
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Big thanks to GTJordan for the hookup of some Italian Weber DCOE40s (tipo 151!). These are the very last design Weber manufactured, and are still the standard model available today. I have given them the once-over and outside of needing a few wee things, and some B21-sized chokes, they're ready to go.




Now...the shimming. I called the local dealership and provided them with the part numbers I pulled directly from Volvo's own parts catalogs...and they treated me like I was insane. The parts counter guy asked me if it was for the rear axle or the front suspension...I ended the phone call shortly thereafter. Since my only other option was waiting 2-3 weeks for three shims to arrive (yay Canada) I just decided to buy the whole kit since I could get it in a day through a buddy's garage.

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Old 10-05-2021, 08:46 PM   #680
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I still have some 42's kicking around!

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Old 10-05-2021, 09:39 PM   #681
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TB really is the greatest site on the internet

B4S your thread always brings me joy thank you

And GT you are the Canadian Batman of the Volvo community

Broke sorry Ontario weather let you down on the car show. One day hopefully we can bring the old VOs to the same show
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Old 10-06-2021, 09:19 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by S70T5fivespeed View Post
TB really is the greatest site on the internet

B4S your thread always brings me joy thank you

And GT you are the Canadian Batman of the Volvo community

Broke sorry Ontario weather let you down on the car show. One day hopefully we can bring the old VOs to the same show
Thanks man . Maybe next year things will be better and I can make it down that way to a show or track day.

I've got another boring update! I got everything shimmed up, put in new hushers, and a new cam seal. I officially hate doing the valve shims without the in-car tools because constantly taking the cam in and out is a pain in the butt. At least now everything is at least 0.35 mm now, instead of being way too tight (and over tight!). Tomorrow I'll throw the new valve cover gasket on and fire it up to see the effect on idle quality. I'm sure it'll be better, considering cyl #2 was at 0.23mm (intake) and 0.30mm (exhaust).
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Old 10-07-2021, 07:34 AM   #683
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Big thanks to GTJordan for the hookup of some Italian Weber DCOE40s (tipo 151!). These are the very last design Weber manufactured, and are still the standard model available today. I have given them the once-over and outside of needing a few wee things, and some B21-sized chokes, they're ready to go.




Now...the shimming. I called the local dealership and provided them with the part numbers I pulled directly from Volvo's own parts catalogs...and they treated me like I was insane. The parts counter guy asked me if it was for the rear axle or the front suspension...I ended the phone call shortly thereafter. Since my only other option was waiting 2-3 weeks for three shims to arrive (yay Canada) I just decided to buy the whole kit since I could get it in a day through a buddy's garage.

Where did you end up ordering shim kit?
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:29 AM   #684
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This is the kit I got, but I ordered it through my buddy's garage from a company he deals with called WorldPac.

https://www.autopartsway.ca/partdeta...33-1604802/crp
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Old 10-07-2021, 08:38 PM   #685
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Back up and running! The idle quality is slightly different, but on a carbed car it's pretty hard to tell until it warms up. I'll double-check the timing tomorrow and go for a spin .
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Old 10-08-2021, 09:22 PM   #686
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Well holy hell...it's a completely different car now. Every valve now has between 0.35-0.38 mm of clearance, which is much looser than the original values of 0.30-ish for everything except #2 which was 0.23 and 0.28 mm. The idle is better on-choke, it starts up nicer, and the best part...it doesn't diesel when I turn off the ignition. Cylinder #2 was definitely causing all the troubles I've had since putting the engine in, but because it wasn't a huge deal I just left it.

I'm anticipating some real success with the dual DCOE setup now that everything is 'fixed'. Fingers crossed.
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Old 10-18-2021, 01:33 PM   #687
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Went on a group cruise with my buddies for the end of the season and the car performed perfectly. The re-shimming changed everything for the better.

Two things though:
1) I need to seal the firewall holes. The fumes...
2) I hate the M46 transmission. Never have I ever driven a transmission that seems to both want to die and live at the same time. I'm using stock mounts on everything, with a driveline bearing/driveshaft that was silent and happy before I converted, and it vibrates just enough to make me cranky. Acceleration is a cringefest, ugh.
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Old 10-19-2021, 01:33 PM   #688
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GTJordan...I owe you many drinks of choice . These genuine Italian Weber DCOE40-151s are awesome and work perfectly. I swapped to some 34mm chokes and replaced some damaged air bypass screws that got overtightened at some point, and they run AMAZINGLY. The chinese 45s are garbage compared to vintage genuine carbs.



Once the car warmed up to operating temp I was easily able to get the idle down to 1000, with AFRs in the 13-14 range. Every adjustment worked exactly as it should, so I guess the third time was the charm. I'll probably convert the chinese crap to ITBs and put the Dells on the shelf to collect dust.
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Old 10-19-2021, 04:31 PM   #689
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Glad they worked! I had no idea how long they'd been on the shelf!
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Old 10-19-2021, 04:48 PM   #690
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They were clearly well taken care of before being put away, so I didn't even have to replace any gaskets. I've used new crush washers on the fuel banjos, and that's it. I tore them down and everything was great inside .
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Old 10-21-2021, 12:07 PM   #691
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Minor update:
-drilled out the 50F9 idles to 55F9 to fall more into line with all the jetting 'suggestions' out there, like the ones on KGTrimnings page (https://www.kgtrimning.org/tips-and-...ce-carburetor/). They all suggest F8, but F9 is what I have currently. The F8 is 'leaner' than the F9, which would also lean out the progression phase slightly, so I'll stick with what I've got until I get that far in the tuning process.

-swapped to 130 mains (from 125) and 180 airs (from 170), to again, fall more into line with the tuning suggestions.

-ordered some VP medium-choke emulsion tubes from Keith Franck (if you know...you know ;) ). They'll hopefully get shipped out today.

-Spent some time and balanced all 4 barrels to each other. The DCOE40-151s have air bypass screws that allow each barrel to be synced to each other, so after balancing the two carbs to each other, I balanced each barrel, and now everything idles smooooooth as silk .
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Old 10-23-2021, 09:44 AM   #692
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I swear, I'm going to do a thread on chinese vs genuine DCOEs...
The CHOEs just keep on giving. I was interested in finding out what size the acc pump spillback valve was (bottom of float bowl, near the stack) so I pulled them. One of them sized out fine (55) but the other was too small for my plug gauges! The smallest I've got is 0.45 and it was too big! FFS...so one carb would have a MUCH longer pump shot than the other, which would have had some fairly dramatic effects on the acc pump AFRs. Two cylinders would have been 'enrichened' for a lot longer than the other two.

I honestly have no idea how anyone uses these things out of the box. The amount of work they'd need to function like genuine Webers would price them OVER real ones. I'm probably going to turn these into ITBS, because I like the idea of being able to choke them down to work with a mildly modded setup like mine.

Minor update again:
-swapped in the 45 pumps from the CHOEs to see if it helps the REALLY lean acceleration fueling. I measured every orifice I could find, and unless the internal volume is different than the OE ones, they seem useable.
-the 55F9s are a tad rich after it warms up, so I am going to solder and drill the CHOE idles (which are like 63F8 IIRC even though they're supposed to be 55F8s)
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Old 10-27-2021, 11:15 PM   #693
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16 hours of driving and 1200+ KMs later...I have two AQ171Cs . Not seized, as the seller claimed, but definitely have rusty ridges. The cam gear on the front engine was broken when they took them out, but I am the one who removed the belt. I'm going to pull the heads soon and see how they are...but these things look CLEAN. More pics later .
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Old 10-28-2021, 07:11 AM   #694
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Wow good for you!
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:06 AM   #695
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Thanks! I am definitely poorer now due to borrowing my pop's fullsize pickup to go get them (gas = $$ :( ), but it was worth it.
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Old 10-28-2021, 10:43 AM   #696
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Side drafts on a 2500 CC 16v redblock?

Sign me up.
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Old 10-28-2021, 11:02 AM   #697
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Could I interest you in a dual ZS and manifold instead? ;)
For reals.

I'm going to HOPEFULLY be able to use one of the bottom ends, because a 2500cc 16v Redblock on dual carbs sounds dreamy to me too .
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Old 10-28-2021, 11:58 AM   #698
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Could I interest you in a dual ZS and manifold instead? ;)
For reals.
Only if it fits a D24. Gas engine thing isn't working out on my end.

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I'm going to HOPEFULLY be able to use one of the bottom ends, because a 2500cc 16v Redblock on dual carbs sounds dreamy to me too .
Yes, please. I want to see this happen.
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Old 10-28-2021, 12:45 PM   #699
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Side drafts on a 2500 CC 16v redblock?

Sign me up.
Gonna need some DCOE45’s or 50’s for that.

Maybe try some chinese knockoffs?
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Old 10-28-2021, 12:51 PM   #700
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Only if it fits a D24. Gas engine thing isn't working out on my end.


Ah well, can't blame a guy for trying ;).
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