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Old 03-12-2016, 12:12 PM   #26
Vincent Gagnon
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Originally Posted by Marvelous3 View Post
Thank you Vincent for the complete thread derail. It's been super helpful.
I'm still talking about Volvo brakes no?
Put stock rotors.
Rebuild calipers.
Put good pads.
Put good fluid.

For ****'s sake. We still don't know what you wan't to do with the car. How can this tread be on topic, there is no topic.

Or

Buy this
http://www.compbrake.com/product/143/

You will feel better about yourself after spending a lot of money for no apparent reason.
That's what you want to hear?
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Old 03-12-2016, 01:21 PM   #27
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Any talk about big brakes is on topic. Any talk of stock brakes is off topic. Title is pretty clear.
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Old 03-12-2016, 01:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vincent Gagnon View Post
You sir, prove once again that most albertans are clinically diagnosed ****tards.
Why the attacks on where a person lives? Are you jelous that we can afford brake kits and hair cuts?

Or are you just upset that your lifestyle is funded by people in Alberta?
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:25 PM   #29
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Why the attacks on where a person lives? Are you jelous that we can afford brake kits and hair cuts?

Or are you just upset that your lifestyle is funded by people in Alberta?
Vincent is "special" leave him alone.


While im at it, hey vincent, what experience do you have racing volvo 240s? I mean the way you talk its like you have been racing them a long time on stock components
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:38 AM   #30
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Tisk tisk. So much ****. All i can respond to now is the end. I did not make any comments about brakes because i do not race my 240, i have not "upgraded" the brakes so i have no advise to give. Unlike vincent. But where have i gotten my knowledge? From spending my life under cars. If i offer advice here its because i have done it myself.

I only jumped in to stand up for jordan because i DO NOT TOLLERATE PERSONAL ATTACKS expecially unprevoked. Jordan didnt ask my to stand up for him, he simply thanked me because i did. Now i ask you the SAME question. Why are YOU standing up for vincent?
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:41 AM   #31
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Ignoring all the bull**** from everyone up there^, OP should do the Cadillac ATS calipers with S60R rotors. Pretty impressive what you get for the money.


I've run stock brakes, RX7 brakes, and now run the 6 pot Cayenne brakes.
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Old 03-13-2016, 02:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
I vote for Cadillac as well. Afaik, homer doesnt make the kits anymore.
Have you tried contacting him? He was very accommodating when I asked for two kits last month. Took him a few weeks to get it all together, given it wasn't a group buy. Regardless, he made it happen, in a timely manor... X2!!!

Also, from what I've read on the Caddy conversion...you'll still want to upgrade the master cylinder, which is neither a riddle or hard, nor does it involve fabrication. Lengthening the booster push-rod took under ten minutes, with the two components supplied in Homer's kit, and the Mustang Master bolted right up...no modification, just a reducer for one of the hard line fittings...but that's hardly a modification.

My only concern with the Caddy conversion is having done nothing to the rear brakes, given such a change in the front. S60r/V70r have 330mm rotors front AND rear! So what happens with a big bad rotor up front and a stock 240 rear rotor? Furthermore, what will a larger master cylinder do with the bigger front calipers and still stock rears?

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Old 03-13-2016, 03:05 PM   #33
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My only concern with the Caddy conversion is having done nothing to the rear brakes, given such a change in the front. S60r/V70r have 330mm rotors front AND rear! So what happens with a big bad rotor up front and a stock 240 rear rotor? Furthermore, what will a larger master cylinder do with the bigger front calipers and still stock rears?
I went through a similar issue with the 122 wilwoods, I had more than enough braking power on the front, but the rears are lacking. I opened up the bias valve all the way, and that helped, but for the 240 guys doing the cadillac upgrade, maybe adding a 2nd caliper on the rear would be a good idea... There was that guy a while back offering the 240 hydro e-brake brackets to add a 2nd caliper to the rear and it might be a good idea to run them in parallel.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:10 PM   #34
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I went through a similar issue with the 122 wilwoods, I had more than enough braking power on the front, but the rears are lacking. I opened up the bias valve all the way, and that helped, but for the 240 guys doing the cadillac upgrade, maybe adding a 2nd caliper on the rear would be a good idea... There was that guy a while back offering the 240 hydro e-brake brackets to add a 2nd caliper to the rear and it might be a good idea to run them in parallel.

It'd seem more ideal to upgrade the reads in the same fashion as the fronts...adding a second pair of cast iron calipers and associated hardware/adapters seems it'd be just as expensive, but far heavier and inefficient than just getting a more complete conversion. At that point, why not consider either the S60R/V70R or Porsche Cayenne/VW Touareg conversion?
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mylesofsmyles View Post
It'd seem more ideal to upgrade the reads in the same fashion as the fronts...adding a second pair of cast iron calipers and associated hardware/adapters seems it'd be just as expensive, but far heavier and inefficient than just getting a more complete conversion. At that point, why not consider either the S60R/V70R or Porsche Cayenne/VW Touareg conversion?
In order to make some kind of rational decision on either end you have to start somewhere..Not just "can we figure out a way to bolt this up" but what piston sizes are in caliper X?
THEN you can see if idea is worthwhile and anticipate further progress or problems...
There is fortunately lots of precedent.....cars similar size and weight and doing the speeds likely done..

And you're right..In the rear probably better with one caliper correctly sized to match the front..

But so far this thread has been a typical TB Fap-fest. "I wanna know what's easiest, no changing hard line or hoses. And cheap."

I still maintain there should be a sub-forum for "I wanna do whatever is easiest" type questions..
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:29 PM   #36
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In order to make some kind of rational decision on either end you have to start somewhere..Not just "can we figure out a way to bolt this up" but what piston sizes are in caliper X?
THEN you can see if idea is worthwhile and anticipate further progress or problems...
There is fortunately lots of precedent.....cars similar size and weight and doing the speeds likely done..

And you're right..In the rear probably better with one caliper correctly sized to match the front..

But so far this thread has been a typical TB Fap-fest. "I wanna know what's easiest, no changing hard line or hoses. And cheap."

I still maintain there should be a sub-forum for "I wanna do whatever is easiest" type questions..
Indeed...just another "because I like it & and because I want to" style thinking.

Brakes have been discussed in depth & often on this board. There's a lot of hot air and ego in this thread...

Funny what you said John...what's easiest? I'd argue that my Porsche brakes were an easy conversion. after I had all the puzzle pieces in hand...everything snapped together like Lego's. My Rx7 brakes were really no more or less difficult. Looks like the S60R brake conversion is just as easy. It's all about as easy as changing pads & rotors on your otherwise stock Volvo.

It's funny as some here really care to learn and improve these cars, at any cost. While others can't justify investing in performance, yet are dissatisfied with their car as is. It's some strange "you're wrong because I'm right" mentality
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:51 PM   #37
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How old are you? early 20's? so you spent what, 5 yrs wrenching? most of that is probably a steep learning curve. I know vince doesn't always get it wright on his first try because i watched him do mistakes but he is very good at pausing and asking questions when it happens. and, as he just showed, he has access to all my library of engineering ****. i think you just can't see beyond the somewhat abrasive persona....
25, i began tearing things apart at the ripe age of 3 as soon as i could hold a screwdriver, by 12 my father who grew up in his fathers chevrolet dealership driving and racing muscle cars admitted i knew more than he about his own cars, ive been working on cars heavily since 13 and worked as a mechanic for a living starting at 15-21 when i stopped to persue a career in machining. I ahouldnt have had to prove myself but you brought my ability into question. Wait so that photo of books is yours? Or was rather? Interesting


To vincent congrats you can weld some angle iron together and paint a subframe red, would you like another cookie? Im running low... But since my age was brought into question and john bitched at me calling you my elder, how much older than i are you exactly? From your demeaner id guess 13, but you have a way with words unlike any 13 year old ive met and a bit more of a beard than one aswell

I hate i allowed myself to get drug into this cluster****. Im done, no sense in arguing or even defending anyone including myself. Turbobricks has stooped to a new level with your constant belittlement and spouting useless **** no one asked for.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:55 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post

I still maintain there should be a sub-forum for "I wanna do whatever is easiest" type questions..



There is, it's called maintenance & nonperformance.
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna sprout?


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Old 03-13-2016, 05:28 PM   #39
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@Vincent:



You have made your point, Volvo brakes can be good. We all get it.
But some of the less-knowledgable people, like me, actually enjoy reading about the other options available. Even though I'll probably never upgrade beyond what I have, it's still fun to think about.

So like, if you could stop turning every thread into a dick swinging contest, that would make this forum so much nicer for the other readers.

I don't understand why you and your mentor John care so vehemently about other people's cars. So what if they upgrade their brakes when it isn't strictly 'necessary'. Having nice things is cool, and makes people feel good. This is supposed to be fun.

What the hell is wrong with that, they aren't spending your money.
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:31 PM   #40
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Regarding age, age=/=skill. You could be 11, and a better mechanic than 30 year old that hasn't touched a wrench. Experience, expertise, and ingenuity are what measures here. Not age. Not dick length. Not clout, not a bunch people with little man complexes. Vincent, while probably skilled in whatever it is he does, is a prick. Plain and simple. He might have some right answers, and good advice. John V? A prick. Killer expertise, experience, and an ingenious dude. No problems with that. What really should have happened here was:

Vincent:You should probably research a little bit regarding what advantages you get from swapping, in the first place.
Everyone else: Helpful suggestions
Vincent:What did you learn?
Everyone else:Crush it.
ZVOLV:Hook it up to a labscope

Then let the thread drop into oblivion so the person who's reading this on google in three years doesn't waste an entire hour reading the circlejerk this thread is. I'm not helping or offering any suggestions because I don't know anything that hasn't been said or suggested, plus I'm 27, so I really, just barely understand how to open doors inside a dwelling, let alone stop a horseless carriage, right?
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:47 PM   #41
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@John V:
You're 100% correct. Real analysis is totally better than vague, 'I like these, they're good' suggestions.

But can't we all just like, get along? People are gonna be people, and they won't always do the rational thing. I actually enjoy reading your posts, they offer a good opposition to the status quo. But the aggressive style makes me not want to take them seriously. You probably miss out on a lot of chances to get your point across because of that.

Edit/ Anyways, I'll shut up now, sorry to contribute to the thread derailment.
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:05 PM   #42
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Since the OP does not seem to know what outcome he wants to achieve it's safe to safe he just wants bling.

Rebuild with stock parts, good fluid and decent pads. EBC pads seem ok and are available. You can also as has been mentioned get most compounds made up to fit.


Thread needs a clean up. Just because someone is an @rse does not make them wrong
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:07 PM   #43
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Brakes, shmakes, or so said Enzo Ferrari (not his exact words but the exact sentiment).
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by alreadyupsidedown View Post
@John V:
You're 100% correct. Real analysis is totally better than vague, 'I like these, they're good' suggestions.

But can't we all just like, get along? People are gonna be people, and they won't always do the rational thing. I actually enjoy reading your posts, they offer a good opposition to the status quo. But the aggressive style makes me not want to take them seriously.
You are hearing aggression. It is in your ears, maybe that's why you hear it. MANY people hear it. Andf many, most even, are insecure about things--but cover it with either vagueness (tho simple ignorance could account for a lotta vagueness) or faux-pleasantries.

I know full well people don't always do the rational thing..I spent a what I thought was fun lifetime that others say must have been kinda savage--judding from the sheer number of orthopedic operations over there years to hammer and screw things back together and clear out the smashed junk inside...I advise reasonable irrationality....I have devoted huge amount of time to helping people have more insightful irrationality...(always the fawkin ultilitarian I guess, (sigh)
But knowing whhat the piston sizes are in ALL the above reccomended calipers--repeating it even if its the umpteeenth time lets people LEARN and not waste money..
I invented the RX7 thing a long time ago Had several sets laying around for my rally car which weighs 2020 lbs. It would be a nice upgrade..

We bang them onto a good friend, a smart guy cause we could, a little suspcious because of the serious step down in piston size.. We like it generally. Kevin claimed he hammered on car..All is well.
Several unscrupoulos places copy the idea and instad of selling the simple adaptors for a resonable $25-30 pair carve some silly brand name and rape people for $125/pair...
OK

Time passes..We finally go ouut in woods together with the car..I find I cannot lock wheels on gravel period...Fail. I had chosen RX7 cuase they were common as hell at the time and cost $7.50 each.. I knew we could search for 300ZX which rather than being 2mm under 240s 38mm size , were 2mm larger.. But those were harder top find and cost too close to what I could get Wilwood Superlite calipers... and in the correct size we'd want for a vigourously driven road car 4 x 1.625" aka 41.3mm
And in the passage of more time we see all these THIS IS GREAT! ideas...

And they MAY be

Well maybe..HOPE-fully.. But numbers even before prices> Desire first, then a little reality (numbers) then OK how do you get this thing we desire and which looks like it will work (and not simply bolt on)...

There's a reasonable order to useful irrationality, see?


But before anybody endorses sumpthing--and implicitly suggestion somebody else that they spend money---numbers
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:35 PM   #45
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You spend your whole days staring at your brakes?
Life well wasted.
Da**** are you doing with 17" wheels?


So you basically want your car to look fast when it's parked?
Bigger brakes could be more performant if one of you guys could understand that you need the right master cylinder and you also need to figure out the brake bias.

So far, none of you philistines posted a single number, a single measurement, just random bull**** about this being better than this for mystical reasons.

Therefore

If you actually want some some kind of mechanical device that inhibits motion by absorbing energy from a moving system that works, put stockish rotors and calipers and buy good high performance pads.

What the **** appears to be so absurd in this proposition?

**** sake people, stop staring at your cars and go beat on them!
I beat on my cars plenty. They also look pretty good while doing it.

Not a big fan of 14" wheels....that might be your style, and that's cool with me.
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:40 PM   #46
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Brakes, shmakes, or so said Enzo Ferrari (not his exact words but the exact sentiment).
At the bike shop we'd say "brakes just slow you down"
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:59 PM   #47
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Whoa did this thread go to hell in a hand basket.

Like I said in my original post. I'm going to be taking the old calipers and rotors off of all four corners and throw them in the trash so at that point I want to put a bigger caliper and rotor on. The point of starting the thread was to see what other people had done and how they liked the results before I decided where to spend the money. I think the vitriol that has ensued is a bit over the top for such a benign question.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:40 PM   #48
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Dug up some specs, thanks to Mopar318

I'm going to keep digging for piston diameters for Porsche Cayenne 17Z...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar318 View Post
...Cadillac ATS BREMBO calipers will be getting adapted to the front. $118 Each from Tasca



Pistons are 4x42mm, so a larger master cylinder might be required.

S60R...

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...34mm leading, 38mm trailing. They use the STi pads, I guess the Evos too.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:44 PM   #49
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Porsche Cayenne Brembo Options...

The 17z's are what's used in Homer's kit...

Different bore/piston sizes (smallest in the front/lagest in the back) for more efficient braking
Brembo 6 pot 17Z - pistons 34/36/38 = 3060mm2
Brembo 6 pot 18Z - pistons 30/34/38 = 2750mm2
Brembo 6 pot 19Z - pistons 32/36/38 = 2956mm2



So far, all this is for FRONT CALIPERS...I haven't found anything for the S60R or Porsche Cayenne Rear Calipers



For the record...

My research has led me to believe STOCK VOLVO 240 is 4x38mm

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Old 03-14-2016, 05:28 AM   #50
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Dug up some specs, thanks to Mopar318

I'm going to keep digging for piston diameters for Porsche Cayenne 17Z...





S60R...
The ATS Brembo caliper also uses the same pads as the sti, s60r, evo.....FYI.

Pretty nice that brembo keeps things pretty consistent even when making a special caliper for each manufacturer.
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