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Saab APC: Modifying and Installing

Okay so you can open the box up and switch a rocker on the board to K?
1,5 bar seems like enough for me. if that really is how it works i agree with clarkson here

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Open the box (4 screws), on the box you will see 3 potentiometers (little dials, just like a MBC). The one closest to the edge of the board is P (pressure), turn this clockwise with a small flathead screwdriver to increase boost. Otherwise leave it as is and as far as I can tell it maxes at 13PSI.

You do not need to touch either of the other potentiometers. One adjusts the boost rise rate (F), which I have not had a problem with. The other adjusts the sensitivity of the knock sensor (K, farther away from the other 2). Absolutely do not touch that one for any reason.

I've had it installed only a couple of days now, but I don't see any real need to do any other modifications as some sites suggest.. Like replacing resistors and potentiometers, unless you're going for very high boost levels.

Also, a little installation pointer. My kit did not come with a knock sensor and I didn't want to wait to get another one. I spliced the APC harness into the Volvo harness and it worked perfectly as the Saab and Volvo use the same sensor:

1. Cut the APC knock sensor wire. You will see 2 wires shielded by ground. 1 Green, 1 brown. Wrap the ground up and strip the ends of the green and brown.
2. Cut the Volvo knock sensor wire, you will see 1 thick green wire, cut this and you will see copper wire wrapped around a smaller green wire.
3. Connect the smaller green Volvo wire to the green APC wire. Connect the wire wrapped around the smaller green wire to the brown APC wire.

Tape it all up and you're done.

On the 3-way valve, you will see a W valve, C valve and R valve. My installation:
W valve: to the waste gate. (easy to remember, W=wastegate)
C valve: to the manifold. (easy to remember, C=compressed)
R valve: to the spare nipple on the hose going directly after the AMM to the PCV. (easy to remember, R=regular (uncompressed))
Block off the open port you now have on the compressor housing.
 
Another thing, I wish there was a way to turn this thing off when I want to. MPG=garbage. Spent 1/4 tank driving 30 miles.

Mine's hooked up to an on/off switch, but when it's off, just unlimited boost.
 
If you ground pin 20 the APC doesnt add boost in the higher rpm, you'll get the base boost (wastegate spring). The knock light still works then, which is a nice thing.

If the boost rises unlimited with the APC off you have connected something wrong. The APC valve should be connected like this:
C: compressor (not intake manifold)
W: wastegate
R: Return

Sounds like you have the C connected to the wrong spot.
 
Dam cannot wait till i install mine, that switch for ground sounds pretty good too.
How safe is JAW BTW, you need to run a Wideband with it to check or is it safe enough to just go with it
 
Thanks JW240, I was worried about that. However, with C connected to the compressor, I only get stock boost.

I bought it already wired up for the car, I'll take another look this weekend to see that I connected everything correctly.
 
Just wondering why all the diagrams are on pins, its not like you can tell what color it goes toe (all warped up in heat protecting)
Mine got these colors and i have no idea how to hook it up since i got it of ebay and not took it off a car myself

img1183b.jpg

img1181u.jpg


Thats:
- blue
- black
- gray/red
- black
- white/yellow
- yellow/red
- white


Edit did i just found the right info via the link of JW?:

The wires coming out of the block are (1) thick grey tube to the knock sensor containing a green and a brown wire, (2) the three main "power/ground" wires - one black (ground), one blue/red (to join blue wire under TSI connector) and one grey/red (to APC 10A fuse), and (3) a set of wires to other peripherals - black & yellow/red (to pressure transducer), yellow/white (to APC solenoid, joined by a black ground wire) and white (to the brake switch)
 
It seems like nobody knows which potentiometer to adjust to raise boost- some places say F, and others say P.... Anyone have any more definitive info?
 
Okay now you can match the colors to the pin-out


Pin
4 Black - Connected to Nok
5 Black - Connected to Nok
10 Yellow/Red
12 White/Yellow
13 Red/Gray
16 Green - Connected to Nok
17 Brown - Connected to Nok
20 White
23 Black
26 Blue/Red

img1256d.jpg

img1255d.jpg


So assuming this list is also correct you can hook it all up using these to pinout's

Here's the pinout for the new gen box
Pin 1: not conncted
Pin 2: not conncted
Pin 3: not conncted
Pin 4: knock sensor shielding (connected to pin 5, GND)
Pin 5: GND
Pin 6: not conncted
Pin 7: not conncted
Pin 8: not conncted
Pin 9: not conncted
Pin 10: Pressuresensor in
Pin 11: ??
Pin 12: solenoid out
Pin 13: +12v
Pin 14: not conncted
Pin 15: not conncted
Pin 16:knock sensor in 1
Pin 17:knock sensor in 2
Pin 18: Disable Knock
Pin 19: Knock indicator out ("lowers" to GND when knock occurs)
Pin 20: brake signal in (+12v)
Pin 21: not conncted
Pin 22: same as pin 20
Pin 23: Pressuresensor in 2 (GND)
Pin 24: F-circuit indicator out ("lowers" to GND when lowers" to GND when F-circuit is enabled)
Pin 25: RPM in
 
If you ground pin 20 the APC doesnt add boost in the higher rpm, you'll get the base boost (wastegate spring). The knock light still works then, which is a nice thing.

This is incorrect- you need to provide +12v to pin 20 to get the APC to return to "base boost." If grounded, it doesn't damage anything- but the APC will still provide high boost.
 
It seems like nobody knows which potentiometer to adjust to raise boost- some places say F, and others say P.... Anyone have any more definitive info?

Note that all boost values noted below are for SAABs. You will have to take it on faith that the guy who wrote this is as reliable a source as you'll find on the internet.

KevinK said:
Most people/sites suggest that to crank up the boost you
just turn in the 'P' screw in the ECU. Unfortunately this myth
was supported by a Winkler article in Nines. Based on
extensive testing on my 83T over many years, I believe the
proper way is to turn in the 'F' , and then turn in the
adjacent 'P' screw a little as a fine tune. The 16V's, up to
M93, have essentially the same system.

The screws (ie., pots, potentiometers) are as follows:

P = Percent................ solenoid 'default' duty cycle

F = Full boost ............ max boost vs rpm map

K = Knock ..................sensor sensitivity

Below about 5-6 psi and under 3100 rpm (and at idle), the
solenoid valve is 95% open, bleeding off the waste gate
actuator to keep it closed. Once either of these limits is
exceeded, the solenoid valve changes to a 'default' duty
cycle, set by the 'P' screw. This partly closes the valve,
and reduces the rate at which pressurized air is bled off
the actuator.

This allows the WG to crack open and slow down how
quickly the boost rises, all to avoid pressure spikes and
severe overshoot.

THE 'F' SCREW sets the max pressure allowed before
the solenoid valve quickly changes from the default 'P'
duty cycle to a more closed condition in an 'active control'
mode. This feeds more pressurized air into the actuator to
open the WG more and reduce boost.

The pressure map for my 83T is flat up to 3100 rpm, and
from there it tapers down 2.5 psi by 5500 rpm. If I turn F in
fully, the controlled max limit is 12.5 psi up to 3100 rpm,
dropping to 10 psi by 5500 rpm ( the 16V max F map
should be higher).

I'm currently going easy on the 2nd trans with F set to 10
psi, dropping to 7.5 psi at 5500 rpm.

THE 'P' SCREW trims the rate at which boost rises. I
found that turning in the P too much results in excess
overshoot, and an annoying run-away boost climb with just
slight pedal depression in upper gears. However, if F is
turned in (increased) without increasing P, then the
P-default will open the WG before the higher F limit is
reached, and no significant boost increase is achieved. A
relatively low 'P' setting limits higher rpm boost.

Only tweak an in-tune engine with good plugs and wires,
etc. First step is to be sure the basic boost is set at the
actuator rod. Set it per the manual to about 45-50% of
your desired max running boost. If you plan on a lot of time
at high rpm, intake and exhaust should be upgraded.

For 8V turbos with CIS injection, you can add an IC, but
the stock fuel system does not provide enough richness to
support higher boost without detonation.

For pre M89, the trans has a small pinion bearing that fails
often at stock boost levels.

For US 16V engines, the 2.5 FPR should be upgraded to
2.8 (or 3.0) if mid-red boost levels are desired.

Mark/note your starting position of the screws. If you
already messed with the P, turn it fully in and back it out
1/3 turn. Increase boost by turning in F a lot and P a little.
Hard core will turn in F fully, but the P is the boost-rise
rate, and should not be turned in too much for reasons
noted prevoiusly. The P takes some time to get right, and
winds up being a 'little nudge' type final adjustment. All
knock sensor control is left in operation.

Don't mess with 'K'.

If you max out F and want more, a Radio Shack 430-ohm
resistor, across the pressure sensor terminals, will get you
about 3 more psi. I put in a Mad-Max switch on the
console to kick in the resistor when I want to go from my
10 psi setting to 13 psi. A 530 ohm resistor is closer to a
2 psi kick. I also moved my pressure supply for the
solenoid valve from the turbo to the throttle body, but
before the throttle valve. This tends to slightly increase
high rpm boost, when in 'P default' mode, and is related to
the 1-2 psi pressure drop (at high flow) at the very
restricting stock 16V intercooler and piping
 
with the APC system do you adjust the boost or does it just keep cranking it up till it gets knock?

The APC controls (a) the RATE at which boost rises (and drops at high RPM), (b) the TOTAL boost, and (c) pressure release upon sensing KNOCK.

To be clear, the APC does NOT simply let the boost rise until it detects knock, and it is not connected to either spark timing or fuel (Jetronic ECU).

Earlier in this thread there were questions about 9000 APCs. You can use an APC from any Saab 9000 Turbo that has a *distributor* (Jetronic LH2.2 or 2.4). If the head has no distr. and a red Direct Ignition cassette bolted into it (above the spark plugs), then you cannot use the car's APC on your Volvo. (It's actually a DI/APC system that controls both timing and boost; it cannot be run as a boost controller only.)
 
Playing with the APC system is really fun! Mine seems to correlate with what procainestart said- it "spikes" to about 12psi, and then tapers to about 10psi at higher rpms with the stock adjustments.

Do you guys think it causes damage to the engine during the brief periods when the engine knocks, before the boost is reduced? Or is it important to always try and tune the APC to avoid all knock? It seems like the Saabs must have been designed to (and survive) running in a condition when the APC is constantly pulling back boost if the stock boost is over 12psi, and the driver were to put in low octane gas (for example).
 
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As neat as it is, I hated the stock APC in my 86 9Kt, even after some of the run of the mill box mods to make it pull(less) boost in the upper rpm's. It's great for if your mother drives it or something to keep them from pinging it to death or such, but the plain mechanical system in my 745t felt so much better.
 
Really, really excited to get my APC system installed!

Scored a mega-deal off eBay, and got a complete system for less than I would have paid PnP, + my time and gas.

So, the "C" port on the APC is to go to the cold side of the turbo? "W" to wastegate and the "R" to a port just after my AMM...what do you all do to make a port post AMM?

Thinking that I'll mount the APC on the shock tower, just next to the radiator overflow tank...seems the cleanest spot.

Where does the Pressure Transducer go?
 
So, got my wires for my engine harness cleaned up...now it's on to wiring up my APC system.

Gonna locate the APC box on the coil mount bracket on the driver shock tower...where the chrysler ignition box would normally be.

Wiring seems fairly straight forward...I'll start asking more questions when I get closer.

For now, I'm wondering where the Pressure Transducer get's it's vacuum from. I didn't pull the system personally, got hooked up PHAT on eBay, so didn't have the first hand oppertunity to follow the vacuum hose to where it connected to. I assume it goes to the intake...get's its read out to send to the computer and the computer controls the 3-way valve, which is connected to the turbo cold side, wastegate and to a bung I'll have to make, post AMM?
 
I assume it goes to the intake...get's its read out to send to the computer and the computer controls the 3-way valve, which is connected to the turbo cold side, wastegate and to a bung I'll have to make, post AMM?

Correct- just T the transducer into your boost gauge line. I think there's a good safety benefit of this too, because if the transducer line pops of, gets chafed, etc. you'll notice immediately that your gauge isn't working before it overboosts.

You don't really need a bung, you can just drill a hole slightly smaller than the hose in the rubber AMM to turbo hose and shove it through.
 
Correct- just T the transducer into your boost gauge line. I think there's a good safety benefit of this too, because if the transducer line pops of, gets chafed, etc. you'll notice immediately that your gauge isn't working before it overboosts.

You don't really need a bung, you can just drill a hole slightly smaller than the hose in the rubber AMM to turbo hose and shove it through.

i've got the aluminum 740 intercooler plumbing...i think i'll figure out a more permanent solution than just dropping the line as you're describing...maybe just find another hard elbow with a vacuum bung already there...someone must have made one for some car at some time, no?

kk, sounds like I'm not quite ready to install this...gotta take a few more prep steps, I guess.

gotta still plumb my new air box and intercooler, to see how that changes my intake tubing, first.
 
i've got the aluminum 740 intercooler plumbing...i think i'll figure out a more permanent solution than just dropping the line as you're describing...maybe just find another hard elbow with a vacuum bung already there...someone must have made one for some car at some time, no?

You could tap it 1/4 npt and add a brass nipple.

The IBC conversion does mention 'dropping' a line into the elbow,and the intercooled cars had the same setup with a factory cast hole.
 
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