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Old 06-17-2021, 12:06 PM   #276
cwdodson88
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Oil cooling would definitely be desirable if we were needing to run it harder.
The ME motors are severely under rated, and they take a crazy amount of abuse.

The aircooled ME1507 we've ran at 3500rpm at 120C (varying load, but basically max current to keep it from overheating) for over 300-400hrs at this point. For a $700 cheap Chinese motor, I'm super impressed!
Thats awesome. We've been getting into some reselling stuff lately to help distribution of BW's OTS products. Playing around with some of these drive units is fun. With the right cooling capacity on the end users side, they do pretty good. Good enough for a solid track day. The 12k rpm and 8:1 reduction make it a great option for some decently heavy vehicles, and with the right stuff the peak torque continues way up in the revs. The cost is also nice for a box that accepts XC90 halfshafts and weighs in under 200# with fluids. We have a few guys working out an inverter arrangement that will put this as an all in one. Just attach the DC bus, and drop some axles on it.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:10 PM   #277
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Its a shame when you've been shown something a month ago and cant accept it so you find an inferior implementation of it you find more interesting because you simply have no shackles you can put on my knowledge in the subjects at hand. Why do 2 assemblers believe they know more than me about this anyway?



And you think a fkn external jacket that can be turned on granny's lathe and cools nothing but the exterior of the stator is interesting

Yall slow...later

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Old 06-17-2021, 12:11 PM   #278
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The cost is also nice for a box that accepts XC90 halfshafts and weighs in under 200# with fluids. We have a few guys working out an inverter arrangement that will put this as an all in one. Just attach the DC bus, and drop some axles on it.
That's awesome for a complete packaged deal.

I can't wait for more companies to start offering the controller integrated into the motor.
Currently, packaging everything into a tight space is challenging. Then there's the assembly and cost of the wiring and extra brackets, etc.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:18 PM   #279
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How? oil cooling is inferior to ferrofluid cooling an dstill requires a pump do you want to see that paper? Oil will not come close to the same level of increasing the motors thermal conductivity. Also a jacket only cools the exterior of the motor it wont assist in getting past the natural insulator an "air" gap creates. The kids riding e bikes have already had this lesson.


For a strip car you dont re condense anything what are you talking about CD? Do you re condense pressurized nitrous bottles on the fly? And if it was a commuter which he wont build for 3000 have ever hear of a compressor....u know like for an AC... u just compressC02



Im leaving because the slips are showing again.

Ill return when something of significant substance is posted again.
No need to get your panties twisted so early bro.

So you want a wasted system... every 10 runs hes out 40 bucks. Not much left in the budget to keep covering that.


Yep, I've heard of compressors... generally they take energy to function.

Oil pumps.. yep, they take energy as well, and while there is loss, I wouldn't go as far as saying its as much as say and AC compressor.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:26 PM   #280
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Just like an ac genius but only the turbobrick way is proud to make power without one....LOL and still poor ass external case cooling with oil is antiquated bro. Again what a strawman argument because if he had a compressor why would he be out every 10 runs spending 40 bucks....

Another twist of your brain. And how much fun is a fast car in the middle of august with no ac in NC? U have to be on some good sht. Ya lady wont even ride in it....trust me. Shes gonna say Its too hot baby Ill see you when you get back....

And Im not leaving because I don't wear panties and nothing is twisted but the knowledge base here. Im leaving right now because its nothing to learn with this old antiquated and general ass motor lessons you can hardly give me from an assemblers perch.

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Old 06-17-2021, 12:39 PM   #281
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Just like an ac genius but only the turbobrick way is proud to make power without one....LOL and still poor ass external case cooling with oil is antiquated bro. Again what a strawman argument because if he had a compressor why would he be out every 10 runs spending 40 bucks....

Another twist of your brain. And how much fun is a fast car in the middle of august with no ac in NC? U have to be on some good sht.

And Im not leaving because I don't wear panties and nothing is twisted but the knowledge base here. Im leaving right now because its nothing to learn with this old antiquated and general ass motor lessons you can hardly give me from an assemblers perch.
Wasted system = $$$ burnt every time it’s used.

Recirculating system = energy wasted every time it’s used.

Oil cooled = integrated pump, low friction positive displacement pump driven by the motor increasing total flow based on rpm, air to oil heat exchanger and depending on placement, no fan required to maintain system temps at small delta to ambient. Or, since your controller should be liquid cooled, run the outlet to a liquid to oil exchanger then out to your radiator. Low losses, low maintenance, good cooling for minimal effort.

My lady loves eastern Oregon desert drives in the 122 and the Austin Healey. Wing windows are fantastic things. The 122 points all the air right at your balls too.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:55 PM   #282
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I think you're over estimate the power used in the pumping system for cooling. Should really only be 200-500W.
Edit: If you're using a e-pump.

Mechanically coupled pumps are always a compromise.
Take a PS pump for instance: They're designed around a flow rate and pressure at a specific RPM, we then spin them 4x that and just wastes power.

A good e-PS setup will consume about 300w for most normal driving when on, and upwards of 2kW peak (but not for more than a second or two)

Last edited by culberro; 06-17-2021 at 01:06 PM..
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:14 PM   #283
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I think you're over estimate the power used in the pumping system for cooling. Should really only be 200-500W.
Edit: If you're using a e-pump.

Mechanically coupled pumps are always a compromise.
Take a PS pump for instance: They're designed around a flow rate and pressure at a specific RPM, we then spin them 4x that and just wastes power.

A good e-PS setup will consume about 300w for most normal driving when on, and upwards of 2kW peak (but not for more than a second or two)
I was thinking his phase change pump. But yeah, looking around, there are some 12v pumps that are pretty dang good. Still in the 500w area. But youre going need all that power for the losses of that warp9
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:17 PM   #284
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It wouldn't matter anyway Ronald since ferrofluid pumps by the curie effect. And Isn't it something then that ferrofluid is iron particles suspended in oil with a surfactant already and needs no pump. Too bad CDwoodson doesn't know that it was developed by Nasa's Steve Papel to pump rocket fuel passively.

CD is a real expert I tell ya.... just read the last post.... No he will need the 500 watts with that marginal Chinese junk for 3500.00 that only brings 32Kw!!!

You sound silly because anyone here that seen a warp 9 at the tracks is aware of what it can do and its never happening with a 32kw scooter package for 3500.00. You should just lift your dress all the way up.

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Old 06-17-2021, 01:17 PM   #285
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Yeah, most of those pumps are powered by 4-cyl turbo diesels. Bonus, you can also charge your batteries with it!
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:20 PM   #286
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:21 PM   #287
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:27 PM   #288
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OTWTTB!

I have no idea why this nonsense keeps running with mass overcite in clear view and mines locked unless something is going to actually be built here the turbobricks way...."with CHEAP Chinese parts..."



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Old 06-17-2021, 03:50 PM   #289
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I have no idea why this nonsense keeps running with mass overcite in clear view and mines locked unless something is going to actually be built here the turbobricks way...."with CHEAP Chinese parts..."


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Because that is literally what the original post was asking! Since you failed at reading comprehension, I'll quote the VERY FIRST LINE OF THIS WHOLE THREAD.

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Since I'm still kind of stoked on the idea of building a hybrid/full EV turbobrick, let's have a discussion on how to do it with cheap junkyard/Chinese parts.
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:52 PM   #290
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We all stand to learn from that absolute masterpiece.
It is the alpha and omega of EV car design
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:36 AM   #291
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Switching directions here, what are the possibilities for adding an e-alternator for better acceleration and better MPG? Let's assume that just the alternator is replaced, along with a separate battery pack (i.e. the car would still be driveable for a short distance if the DIY install failed).

How much power can be transmitted through a toothed timing/alternator belt in a DIY installation? And how big of a battery pack would this take?

How the heck do you control this thing? How does it know when to do max acceleration, light assist (better mpg), and battery recharge? I can imagine adding a standalone e-alternator controller box, with a combo e-throttle + cable pedal, but it sure seems like it would need to tie into the main engine ECU too. If so, LH2.4 would be unusable, but MegaSquirt might?

Finally, are there any good salvage yard options for this sort of e-alternator and controller?
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:43 AM   #292
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Because that is literally what the original post was asking! Since you failed at reading comprehension, I'll quote the VERY FIRST LINE OF THIS WHOLE THREAD.


The problem is people like you not realizing I took the line from there and that tin hat know how like yours is severely lacking about EV design or electric motors or you'd never think its possible...

Cheap Chinese over budget parts..... sounds like it should be an amazing build that will manifest from this oceans floor

I Cannot wait to see this Major Fail!

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Old 06-18-2021, 09:19 AM   #293
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Switching directions here, what are the possibilities for adding an e-alternator for better acceleration and better MPG? Let's assume that just the alternator is replaced, along with a separate battery pack (i.e. the car would still be driveable for a short distance if the DIY install failed).

How much power can be transmitted through a toothed timing/alternator belt in a DIY installation? And how big of a battery pack would this take?

How the heck do you control this thing? How does it know when to do max acceleration, light assist (better mpg), and battery recharge? I can imagine adding a standalone e-alternator controller box, with a combo e-throttle + cable pedal, but it sure seems like it would need to tie into the main engine ECU too. If so, LH2.4 would be unusable, but MegaSquirt might?

Finally, are there any good salvage yard options for this sort of e-alternator and controller?
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/sema...-draws-crowds/

Small 30-50 horse motor would be cool, and net you some mpgs. Pack size would need to be big. Prius hybrid pack would be a good start, and run a grand or so. Chevy volt modules would be nice to depending on level of design and system voltage.

Controller would be where you’d expect to spend money depending on motor type. I’d start there. Find a controller that has user defined regen areas, and you’re not far from it. The hardest part will be tuning regen/power and coast zones. It would be great if the car is running a stand alone to start, not that it can’t be done with a stock ecu, but being able to set up something like table switching when e-powered during cruise could come in handy for pulling mpg gains. Or using a table to control cruise, power, and coast zones.

Not sure what you can find in the yards, but the stop/start mgu from an ecoboost f150 has the power, wether or not you can adapt and control it would be the problem.

Culberro’s idea with that little 32kw motor would be a great candidate. Has all of what’s needed except the pack. And from what I understand, user defined throttle/braking control. So looking at your megasquirt features, look at accel enrichment, and what can you control with it. My plan for hybrid control is looking at messages over the CAN bus, so far I’ve gotten speed density messages sorted, and moving to accel enrichment, and then looking at how to fake overrun fuel cut.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:39 AM   #294
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Switching directions here, what are the possibilities for adding an e-alternator.....

Finally, are there any good salvage yard options for this sort of e-alternator and controller?
Lacrosse and Sierras had E-Assist.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:58 AM   #295
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The problem is people like you not realizing I took the line from there and that tin hat know how like yours is severely lacking about EV design or electric motors or you'd never think its possible...

Cheap Chinese over budget parts..... sounds like it should be an amazing build that will manifest from this oceans floor

I Cannot wait to see this Major Fail!
Come back when you can form a coherent thought. This post reads like russian click bait.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:00 AM   #296
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Lacrosse and Sierras had E-Assist.
That’s appears to be a great little package. Hairpin wound pmac motor. Looks like they can be had for pretty inexpensive. And I’d be willing to bet that with the right pack and controller, it’d pack more punch than you might think.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:34 AM   #297
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That’s appears to be a great little package. Hairpin wound pmac motor. Looks like they can be had for pretty inexpensive. And I’d be willing to bet that with the right pack and controller, it’d pack more punch than you might think.
What about the electric motor sandwiched between the Honda Insight's engine and transmission?
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:44 AM   #298
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That e-assist is pretty neat, basically another start stop system right? Big imported trucks are becoming more common around here so maybe one can be found at a scrapyard. Most constructors like them for their higher towing rating compared to the typical white vans

So listing our requirements, available in junkyards, alternator type system, hacked already for convenience, 15-30hp. Battery pack can be scaled according to need and system, a regen charging system being preferred.

Edit: Sounds like the Curtis system with a bracket fits the bill basically
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:53 AM   #299
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That e-assist is pretty neat, basically another start stop system right? Big imported trucks are becoming more common around here so maybe one can be found at a scrapyard. Most constructors like them for their higher towing rating compared to the typical white vans

So listing our requirements, available in junkyards, alternator type system, hacked already for convenience, 15-30hp. Battery pack can be scaled according to need and system, a regen charging system being preferred.

Edit: Sounds like the Curtis system with a bracket fits the bill basically
I feel like it would. I don’t see much reason why it wouldn’t. Pack size would determine power output, and would correspond to percent increase in mpg. Larger pack, and possibly higher voltages would relate to higher increases in mpg.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:54 AM   #300
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What about the electric motor sandwiched between the Honda Insight's engine and transmission?
Definitely worth a look. Those are dirt cheap.
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