TD04 16t rebuild

[PNW760]

Began taking apart my 16t for re-clocking and as I was taking it apart, the compressor wheel looks really crusty and my snap ring just broke in half.




1. Is this normal for snap rings to just break in half? I thought they were supposed to withstand a lot of pressure? Me taking it off with snap ring pliers shouldn't cause it to break?

What size is the snap ring for a replacement? I found this snap ring on ebay but the shape isn't quite the same with the notches cut into it, it looks beveled however like the snap-ring, which I know is a requirement.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/38389789557...b1ce%7Ciid%3A1

2. How borked is this turbo? Especially with the rust/grime/crust inside the CHRA and on the compressor wheel? Rebuild the whole thing, or just slap it together and pray to redblock Jesus that it works?

[ronclark]

Originally Posted by PNW760

1. Is this normal for snap rings to just break in half? I thought they were supposed to withstand a lot of pressure? Me taking it off with snap ring pliers shouldn't cause it to break?

What size is the snap ring for a replacement? I found this snap ring on ebay but the shape isn't quite the same with the notches cut into it, it looks beveled however like the snap-ring, which I know is a requirement.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/38389789557...b1ce%7Ciid%3A1

2. How borked is this turbo? Especially with the rust/grime/crust inside the CHRA and on the compressor wheel? Rebuild the whole thing, or just slap it together and pray to redblock Jesus that it works?

1. I would say that's not normal, I have never had one break in half like that. I have man-handled quite a few snap rings without the right tools on hand.

2. your link is not working for me, but this should work Turbo Retaining Ring for Mitsubishi TD04

3. I would give it a good cleaning, I am no turbo expert but I would use it. you're into this far you might consider a rebuild kit and it looks like it has a new snap ring included. I can't vouch for the kit quality, for a 100ish you can get a Mitsubishi kit.

[ovlov760]

I have never had one snap in half. I haven't rebuilt often enough to know what's normal.

If it's just grime I'd shoot some carb cleaner on it and clean it with a soft bristle brush. If nothing is chipped, cracked, or bent I think you'll be okay. Do you know if this turbo built boost?

You should be able to find complete rebuild kits. Just mark the wheels before disassembly so you can get it close to balanced upon reassembly.

[PNW760]

Originally Posted by ovlov760

You should be able to find complete rebuild kits. Just mark the wheels before disassembly so you can get it close to balanced upon reassembly.

Oops.



So if I took off the compressor wheel without marking it, how bad is that? I’m assuming the notches cut in the wheel are for balancing. Is there a way to balance at home or do I have to send it off? Because I might as well buy a pre-built CHRA rather than sending this off to get rebuilt and balanced

[white855T]

Originally Posted by PNW760

Oops.



So if I took off the compressor wheel without marking it, how bad is that? I’m assuming the notches cut in the wheel are for balancing. Is there a way to balance at home or do I have to send it off? Because I might as well buy a pre-built CHRA rather than sending this off to get rebuilt and balanced

This option would be the easiest. I have bought many parts from this vendor. Good quality. https://www.ebay.com/itm/28191395548...3ABFBMtuX6hr9g

[ovlov760]

Originally Posted by PNW760

Oops.



So if I took off the compressor wheel without marking it, how bad is that? I’m assuming the notches cut in the wheel are for balancing. Is there a way to balance at home or do I have to send it off? Because I might as well buy a pre-built CHRA rather than sending this off to get rebuilt and balanced

I don't know of a way to do it at home. I've gotten away with forgetting to mark the wheels on Garrett T3 turbos.

[PNW760]

Originally Posted by white855T

This option would be the easiest. I have bought many parts from this vendor. Good quality. https://www.ebay.com/itm/28191395548...3ABFBMtuX6hr9g

That actually looks like a great option and it’s stateside. I guess we’ll give it a spin (literally) and see how it goes

[dalek]

I've always thought the Mitsubishi parts were individually balanced

[PNW760]

Meaning I wouldn’t need to mark it when taking it apart and putting it back together doesn’t a need a specific orientation in relation to the rest of CHRA components?

[dalek]

Let me rephrase it: when I rebuilt the 15g in my car, I do not remember keeping its moving parts lined up with respect to each other. So far it has not chewed itself up, but that does not mean tomorrow it will not destroy itself.

I remember reading about its parts being balanced separately but I can't find that info again. Safest bet is to assume you need to keep things lined up. There are people in this very forum who have changed compressor wheels in their turbo; they would know this better than me.

To mark the parts before disassembling, when you get to the CHRA make a cardboard jig that goes all the way to the shaft and then mark where the compressor, turbine, and nut touch it with sharpie. Once you take it apart, be very careful not to clean the marks out.

Or, just buy a replacement CHRA and be done.

[lookforjoe]

The impeller & compressor wheel are balanced as an assembly. Putting it back together without the original lineup will cause imbalance & wear to the bearings. Doesn't mean it will die immediately, however it will reduce the life of the turbo. There are places you can send the compressor wheel & impeller for balancing, or the entire CHRA so you don't have to deal.

If you are doing it yourself, the cartridge needs thorough cleaning / decoking. I took these pics many years ago to show the areas of importance







hot side shaft seal (ring) seat area

[ovlov760]

Originally Posted by dalek

Or, just buy a replacement CHRA and be done.

There's certainly an argument for Chinesium center cartridge and send it.

[Bloody244]

or just do it like me and buy 250€ chinesium brand new 19t from Ebay. the first one died when my engine lost a rod and bent the other three like 17-29 psi for 10k km. the one i have now has only 500km on it but zero play in it and i dont run a bov and have a cbv block off plate for the Stutututu. i also use rolling antilag often when doing roll races only on private roads ofc

[AndrewNance]

A cheap ultrasonic cleaner from Amazon should clean most of that up for you. I’d assume most of the rebuild kits are from China so how much difference is there between those and a China eBay chra?

[lookforjoe]

Originally Posted by AndrewNance

A cheap ultrasonic cleaner from Amazon should clean most of that up for you. I’d assume most of the rebuild kits are from China so how much difference is there between those and a China eBay chra?

All the important parts such as the cartridge impeller & wheel quality, perhaps

[PNW760]

Originally Posted by Bloody244

or just do it like me and buy 250€ chinesium brand new 19t from Ebay. the first one died when my engine lost a rod and bent the other three like 17-29 psi for 10k km. the one i have now has only 500km on it but zero play in it and i dont run a bov and have a cbv block off plate for the Stutututu. i also use rolling antilag often when doing roll races only on private roads ofc

The 16t CHRA that was linked above is $170, where the rebuild kit + shipping to G pop shop + paying for a balance comes out to like $150? I’m that case it almost makes more sense to just buy the prebuilt one from eBay and pray to the redblock gods that it won’t implode

[PNW760]

Originally Posted by lookforjoe

All the important parts such as the cartridge impeller & wheel quality, perhaps

The eBay cartridge *claim* they’re balanced up to 150,000 RPM. How valid those claims are is really hard to say..

[redblockpowered]

When I asked someone at MHI I was told turbo CHRAs were component balanced, not assembly balanced.

[PNW760]

Originally Posted by redblockpowered

When I asked someone at MHI I was told turbo CHRAs were component balanced, not assembly balanced.

I’m trying to figure out if this means I can just reassemble then? None of the fins on the wheels on either side are damaged so I’m assuming if everything is good it can be re-installed and it’ll be fine?

[redblockpowered]

Should be, yes.

[lookforjoe]

Originally Posted by redblockpowered

When I asked someone at MHI I was told turbo CHRAs were component balanced, not assembly balanced.

Any specifics to substantiate that?

Personally I wouldn't assemble one that way. However with all original components going back in unaltered, it seems less likely to be an issue.

The hybrid ones I've made, I always have balanced, not worth the risk

[gottarollwithit]

Not to be a snob or anything, but here's what i don't understand. It takes at least a couple hrs to remove a turbo, plus you'll invariably lose some coolant and oil, then it'll take another 2+ hrs to reinstall the turbo.... After all that, why not just send it off to get a rebuild? It's like $450 at G-pop shop, but you can drop it on and run it for another 100k and not think about it. I understand need to save $$, especially in this day and age, however think about how long this 16t has already lasted, then think about how much it will have cost you if you toss a $100 rebuild kit at it and it grenades/smokes out. If you're on a tight budget, just fish out another turbo from the JY....

[shoestring]

This discussion is like the "2 piece driveshafts are balanced as an assembly" argument. If someone could explain to me how or why, as a manufacturer mass-producing this stuff, you'd balance a CHRA as an assembly rather than as individual components that some drone just needs to put together, I'm listening. Now if we're talking about an aftermarket wheel that NEEDS to be balanced because they don't do it, that's different. I'm not trying to be a smart guy, I have a real curiosity about this. Facts only, please.

[redblockpowered]

Originally Posted by lookforjoe

Any specifics to substantiate that?

Personally I wouldn't assemble one that way. However with all original components going back in unaltered, it seems less likely to be an issue. [/IMG]

MHI rep I talked to on the phone said this. I just sent them an email to get it in writing.

I think a hybrid turbo should probably be rebalanced anyway but if you're just rebuilding something used with no damage it can just go back together. I figure we would hear of more rebuild turbos blowing up prematurely if this wasn't the case.

[PNW760]

Rebuild from G-Pop shop came in (1 day sooner than it was supposed to!!) so I got to rebuilding.

Now everything is reinstalled and the wheel is hard to turn. Is this due to improper lubrication or did I potentially break something?

I was reading a thread that just said to use clean engine oil so I used some 5W40 I had lying around. If I properly screwed it up, I’ll go for the new CHRA from eBay which I don’t mind but I’m not sure if what I have now is normal or will probably not work