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#176 | |
I sell Volvo parts!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
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![]() Quote:
Press the new chip in place and align the U-shaped cutout with its new location.
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Here's my feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=25568 I ship small packages/purchases on Fridays, and larger ticket items via FedEx in the middle of the week. |
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#177 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Achemedes might had a misplaced faith in what he might accomplish with a lever. At least that's what I think after removing the 30-yr-old head bolts. Jeeze, I don't know what those Swede assembly-line workers eat for breakfast, but you'd think that 45 ft/lbs plus 90 degrees would not result in those damnable things being so hard to break loose. There was also some kind of black crusty stuff on the center of the threaded section. Is that some kind of Lutefisk-Loctite?
But I digress. It's done now. I have a question on cam timing: Having shaved 0.040" off the head, I am now 4 degrees retarded (some might say more, but we're really talking about the cam, not me). I have an adjustable camshaft gear installed, and so if I advance 4 degrees, then I am back to "normal". Now, what would you suggest as a good starting point for cam timing? To review: I have a B230F, IPD-VX cam, 2.5" exhaust from the 2:1 collector back, NA, shaved 0.040" cylinder head, and now have the chip set from Redblockpowered installed. This car is not a racer. It's going to be a daily driver, mostly highway, with a bit more umpf. Advance, retard, or leave as is, and why?
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Frequently wrong, never in doubt. I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather... not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car. Last edited by dmg4; 02-28-2022 at 10:57 AM.. |
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#178 | |
Ronald Culberbone III
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Redmond, OR
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![]() Most (all?) cam gears for redblocks have the degrees marked for the camshaft, not the crank. So you’ll want to adv it 2° as marked/indicated for it be “straight up”.
The VX3 already has 3° of adv ground into it, so adding more probably isn’t the best idea. Good news is, that changing cam timing takes all of about 10-20min at garage pace.
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Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid. Quote:
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#179 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: MA/NH
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![]() I've snapped some 3/8 extensions at the junkyards trying to pull heads, they definitely are in there good.
About cam timing, i'm not sure where the math puts it retarded, but I suggest to try to play with it yourself. At least for me it was pretty clear where straight up is/was/should be and the engine is the happiest with a factory cam if u fiddle with it a bit. (yes vx is a factory cam)
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1991 244 LH3.1 M46 393k miles |
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#180 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() I have the VX cam (for NA) not the VX3 (for turbo). Do you know if there is also advance ground into the VX?
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#181 | |
Ronald Culberbone III
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Redmond, OR
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![]() Quote:
The IPD turbo cam is a different lobe profile and LSA altogether. If it’s an old OEM cam, then it’s the standard VX. |
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#182 | |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Quote:
One more time for the dummy here (me): shaving 0.040" off the head retards crank timing by roughly 4 degrees, and so I should advance cam timing by 2 degrees to compensate, correct? And, the hive mind buzz is that I should neither advance nor retard cam timing further than described above at this time, also correct? |
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#183 |
Ronald Culberbone III
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Redmond, OR
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![]() That is correct wrt the cam/crank degrees, and generally the cams like to be “straight up” . You might find some gains left or right from center, and it’s very easy to change around once installed. Best to verify with a dyno or stop watch when making those changes.
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#184 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Here's where we are today. The new cylinder head, shaved 0.040" is installed, and the IPD-VX cam has been swapped into it, with cam clearance all set to 0.012" intake and exhaust. New ignition and fuel chips from Redblockpowered installed. Full tank of fuel and about 100 lbs of crap in the back.
And...(drum roll): 0-60 in 12.5 sec. Even more fun from 40 to 80. Times might improve as the system "learns" the new chips. 2.5" exhaust from the collector back goes on later this week, so this might get better still. I started at 0-60 in 15.4, and I still have the monster truck tires on the wagon. This is progress. Last edited by dmg4; 03-15-2022 at 05:01 PM.. |
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#185 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() It's getting better! Drove the car 80 miles in a combination of stop+go and 75 mph on the interstate, and then returned for two more 0-60 runs. This time: 12.1 and 12.0 seconds. I only need to shave off 1.8 seconds and I can catch that Prius.
One must dream. |
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#186 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
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![]() What service have you carried out on the transmission?
You could do a couple of things, accumulator mod for faster shifts and less slip and while you're there add a bottle of lucas oil trans fix (gives the clutches better bite for less slip and longer life) |
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#187 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Whoops. Duplicated a post and now can't delete it.
Last edited by dmg4; 03-16-2022 at 02:29 PM.. |
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#188 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Flushed the transmission and changed the fluid and filter about 500 miles ago. Nothing more yet. I could fuss with the transmission now, but the premier issue was that there was really not much to transmit.
On a 0-60 run it only shifts once: 1st to 2nd. It will stay in 2nd well past 70 mph. Let's see what the next step produces (2.5" exhaust) and see where we are. That happens on Monday. |
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#189 | |
board member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Upper Midwest more or less
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![]() Quote:
My suggestion is to flush the tranny again(I've done 4 flushes never done filter). I'm running a type of full synthetic Dex, the car shifts perfect unless it's overheated in city traffic, but if I let up on the pedal it does what it's supposed to do. ![]()
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Desperate need of elf assistant for interior work - Cash/Beer option $ Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=323689 |
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#190 | |
I.M. Weasel
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Driving the No Malarkey Bus
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![]() Quote:
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Living life one day at a time. Stopping to smell the oil slick beneath my Volvos. |
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#191 | |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Quote:
Nope. Just questioning the logic of multiple flushes to address a problem that (to me) does not exist on this car. Fluid looked good when I got the car: clean and didn't smell burnt. Shifts were clean and tight. I flushed it just so I'd have a zero point for the mileage on the fluid. The filter is easy to change and cheap, so why not do that too? The flushing was through the transmission coolant lines, so it wasn't just a drain and refill. My original point was that: (i) there's only one shift between 0 and 60: 1st to second, so there's just that one very slim chance of improvement from fussing with the transmission; and (ii) the main issue in this car was piddly power from the engine, not inefficiency in transfer of the piddly power. |
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#192 |
Board Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
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![]() Are you trying to suggest that his transmission is slipping excessively, or something?
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#193 | |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Quote:
We're headed down a rabbit hole here. The car was slow. Now it's much faster, but "fast" is a relative thing. The mods to improve speed were a VX3 cam, planing the head 0.040, and new EZK and ECU chips. On Monday it gets a 2.5" exhaust upgrade, and once I can run some more 0-60 times, I'll let folks know what happened. But, essentially the news is this: each one of the above mods, all taken in sequence from the sticky on performance mods for NA redblocks, produced a quantifiable decrease in 0-60 times. Last edited by dmg4; 03-19-2022 at 01:56 PM.. |
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#194 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() The 2.5" exhaust is on the car, and I've driven it about 100 miles.
As for speed, the best three 0-60 times were 11.79, 11.76. and 11.52. So, adding the 2.5" exhaust dropped about 0.5 seconds off the best times yet. Overall, I'm VERY happy with the outcome. I've implemented just about every suggestion under the sticky on Improving Performance for NA cars. We're well into 8 pages since this started, so to review the bidding to date: 1993 Volvo 240 Classic wagon, B230F engine, Automatic transmission. 1. Tires are 205/70/14 (yes, I know....too big. This is a dead horse). 2. Started with stock M cam 3. All stage 0 maintenance done 4. Repeated 0-60 times averaged 15.4 seconds 5. Installed IPD VX (AKA VX3) camshaft, average 0-60 times dropped to 13.5 sec. Surprising, but that's what happened. 6. Installed rebuilt cylinder head with 0.040" shaved, OEM headgasket, plus EZK and ECU chips from Redblockpowered, and 0-60 times dropped to 12.5 sec. 7. Drove it another 80 miles (it learns) and the 0-60 times dropped to 12.1 sec. 8. Added the 2.5" exhaust, drove it about 100 miles, and the 0-60 times dropped to about 11.6 sec. That's where we are today. So, if these results are typical, now you know approximately what to expect for each of the modifications in the above-mentioned sticky on a plain-Jane stock 240 B230F with a 4 sp AT. Basically, I found that all the changes are significant and noticeable in 0-60 times. I'm not sure the absolute contributions would fall out the same way if the mods were done in a different order, but that really does not matter to me, as I was committed to doing them all anyway. I just wanted to keep tabs on how the car improved in each step. I'll report on the gas mileage to see if it has changed at all. I should be able to take it out for about a 800 mile trip on I-90 in a few weeks. Someday I might swap the VX cam for the IPD turbo cam. Anybody want to buy the IPD VX cam (less than 500 miles) to make my decision easier? Some have criticized this cam as not an optimal choice, but it yielded the largest drop in 0-60 times of all the mods (1.9 sec). It was certainly superior to the M cam with respect to acceleration and throttle response in my car. Last edited by dmg4; 03-30-2022 at 07:16 PM.. |
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#195 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Another update: Someday arrived early. I bought and installed an IPD turbo cam. Checked the valve clearances after installation and all were between 0.012 and 0.013". Sold the VX cam on eBay today in about 30 minutes. Finally got around to running another compression check after the new shaved head was installed, cold engine: 185 to 190 psi on all 4 cylinders. I don't feel a difference in the new camshaft yet. I'll give it a few hundred miles and then run some more 0-60 times.
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#196 | |||||||||
Turbo, what?
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OR
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![]() Dang, I missed a party!!! I LOVE how you read the NA performance thread and actually went through the steps, INCLUDING adding compression. That's like adding a turbo! Ok, not really, but it helps... And you did it all in a matter of a few months! Sweet.
![]() Most of what I was going to say as I read through the full thread just now, (oops, I was supposed to be doing something else, and going to bed!!!), has already been said. I'll still throw in some notes. 530 vs. 531: The 531 is better for ultimate performance. In a near stock build, on a street car, with a relatively small camshaft, the 530 COULD perform better because it's intake ports are smaller. The 531 will probably have higher peak hp in the exact same scenario, but not necessarily more torque and very likely not more low end. I agree that larger valves are not necessary. They may be beneficial and can help a smaller camshaft act larger, but it's likely not worth the expense. Before you went to the lengths of having something custom made up, I was going to suggest a Simons exhaust system. They're decent quality with good pipe bends and perforated core, straight through mufflers. At least, the Simons Sport System on my 142 was, and I am pretty certain that the rest of their kits bear the same good features. Adding in that larger chunk of pipe where the factory downpipe goes from 2-1 helps a good bit in its own right, too. Quote:
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Regarding 7000rpm, there's no need with your setup. The factory cut-out is around 6200rpm (unless redblockpowered bumped them up in both computers for you) and your powerband will be falling off pretty hard after that anyway. It probably would pull ok to 6500rpm, but definitely no reason to go to 7k. Quote:
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Those compression numbers are much better, though! If you have too much more than that, you may need special ignition tuning that is actually less advanced than factory. That usually comes into play when you have even more off the cylinder head, high ambient temperatures, a hot thermostat and a thinner headgasket. If you want to try something for a little more in the future, I'd slap a thinner heagasket in it. You'll gain torque/power and efficiency. I don't know what Redblockpowered's chip tuning is for the ignition, but there's a possibility it could be too much. He does have a good idea of what these engines like, though, and has been on the dyno to tweak it. I'm also curious, what did you set your valve clearances at before you found us here? ![]() The cheapest way to more power than you currently have would be to get another airbox for the warmer months and remove the flapper mechanism completely, then use BOTH sides of the airbox for cold air (like you had it before, but without the flapper in there at all). This provides better flow at higher rpm and a noticeable increase in high rpm pull. You could even go "crazy" and cut out the front of that airbox a bit, but know that it'll get your filter dirty faster in the rain and also allow hot air if you use your a/c. It sounds better, though. Lastly, this was a fun read and will be going into the sticky'd thread at the top.
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Kyle - NLMGG: '91 244 NA Toy - General Leif: '71 142 Endurance Racecar - The General's Facebook - Oregon Volvo Tuners - Died ![]() Last edited by klr142; 05-14-2022 at 03:40 AM.. |
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#197 | |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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#198 |
Turbo, what?
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OR
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#199 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva, NY
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![]() Now that hot weather has finally arrived, does anyone have any data on how much HP is robbed by the AC system in these cars? I was thinking of running some times comparing the system on vs off.
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#200 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
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![]() Some say 5-10hp
Probably half a second or a full second difference Not enough that you won't be able to beat the Prius on the highway on ramp |
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