• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Street-able NA engine 8v vs. 16v

vwbusman66 said:
I know the 234 head is pretty adequate for most turbo applications but I suspect NA poses new fun problems.
Click to expand...

Conner850 (or similar) built an NA 16V B230 for his 245..... drop him a line, and I'm certain he will share the details. Stock cams,exhaust,induction I recall, used the YOSHI tool for piston clearance. He noted it liked tall RPMs much more than running around in traffic. I don't see him post much lately, he is more of a BMW guy. Good luck.
 
shoestring said:
Head milled 2.5mm. Intake and exhaust port modifications. No cat. Properly sized exhaust pipe for power output. LH2.4 fuel trim tune. Ignition map modified, but not dyno tuned. The pinout grounding mod showed 0 changes to power curve in either +3 or -3 degrees so we said F it. Easiest thing to duplicate would be K cam. It's installed at -1.5 degrees because that's as close as we could get to 0 with what we had. Moving the cam timing also has little to no effect. H cam made less power. Airbox delete, cone filter.

I'll post the dyno sheet on it. 144whp @ 5644 rpm.

I can't figure out how to post .pdfs and it's pissing me off

This is the dyno run with the H cam:


thumbnail_20190422_193814.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]


And this one is with the K:

thumbnail_20190422_193954.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

If someone can point me to somewhere where I can put up the pdfs, I'd be grateful. This looks like crap. I tried to save them as something other than pdf, no dice.
Click to expand...

Sweet! They're basically on top of each other, similar to what I experienced but with the H coming out on top for the HP department.
 
Shoestring,
What did you do with that intake manifold? I assume you started with a stock LH intake and match ported it to the head?

I wonder what a homebrew header would do for the powerband...
 
Intake is no different than anyone else's. I'm not a believer in port matching, it's not where the restriction lies.

As I happen to be building a header for this engine, hopefully later this summer I'll have the answer to that question!
 
I run a B230FX with a ported and polished 531 head shaved for ~11:1 CR and oversize 38/46 valves and a KL-Racing T3 cam (280? dur, 112? LSA, 12.15mm lift), with a stock exhaust I'd say it's well over 100hp at the wheels, and I think I can get it to 150hp with a proper exhaust and Megasquirt to really lean on the advance curves a bit.
 
jamesinc said:
I run a B230FX with a ported and polished 531 head shaved for ~11:1 CR and oversize 38/46 valves and a KL-Racing T3 cam (280? dur, 112? LSA, 12.15mm lift), with a stock exhaust I'd say it's well over 100hp at the wheels, and I think I can get it to 150hp with a proper exhaust and Megasquirt to really lean on the advance curves a bit.
Click to expand...

Dude we made 120whp with a 1mm mill on the head, a 0.030" Cometic head gasket, a D cam, no cat and 1 other thing I'm not telling so I would hope you're at 100+!
 
jamesinc said:
I run a B230FX with a ported and polished 531 head shaved for ~11:1 CR and oversize 38/46 valves and a KL-Racing T3 cam (280? dur, 112? LSA, 12.15mm lift), with a stock exhaust I'd say it's well over 100hp at the wheels, and I think I can get it to 150hp with a proper exhaust and Megasquirt to really lean on the advance curves a bit.
Click to expand...
Is that one of the engines that came with the VX(3?) cam and 531 head to begin with? If so, it’s supposedly over 100whp stock. Heh.

Do you have a wideband? What’s your idle rpm and how lumpy is it? Do you have emissions testing? Are you running fuel and or ignition chips or is the tuning completely stock? How did you get to 11:1 compression(how much shaved and anything else done?) and has the bottom end been touched or all original?
 
shoestring said:
Dude we made 120whp with a 1mm mill on the head, a 0.030" Cometic head gasket, a D cam, no cat and 1 other thing I'm not telling so I would hope you're at 100+!
Click to expand...

What dyno? If they do a coast down and account for drivetrain losses, the HP and torque is closer to "crank hp" (minus tire slip, which is negligible on your setup). A lot of wheel dyno's will do this, so you really need to specify...

Case in point, my old turbo car made 160whp on a dynojet (shaved head, IPD turbo cam, 13c @15psi, 2.5" exhaust), but that was with no coast down to account for drivetrain losses. It's a true indicator of what is actually making it to the tire.
 
Last edited:
culberro said:
Case in point, my turbo car made 160whp (shaved head, IPD turbo cam, 13c @15psi, 2.5" exhaust), but that was with no coast down to account for drivetrain losses. It's a true indicator of what is actually making it to the tire.
Click to expand...
What dyno? That's low... Chart?
 
That 112 degree lobe angle on that kl3 cam is better suited to a turbo engine. It would probably free up some more power with a lobe angle of 109 degrees.

For example my turbo enem cams use 112 degree lobe angle on the turbo version but have 109 degree lobe angle n/a version both with the same duratioin and lift. V15 cams. I also have a V16 turbo cam with 112 degree lobe angle.
The IPD cam uses 110 giving you a compromise cam between a full turbo version cam and a n/a cam.
 
culberro said:
What dyno? If they do a coast down and account for drivetrain losses, the HP and torque is closer to "crank hp" (minus tire slip, which is negligible on your setup). A lot of wheel dyno's will do this, so you really need to specify...

Case in point, my turbo car made 160whp (shaved head, IPD turbo cam, 13c @15psi, 2.5" exhaust), but that was with no coast down to account for drivetrain losses. It's a true indicator of what is actually making it to the tire.
Click to expand...

The 120hp was on a Dynojet. The current engine on the same Dynojet made 140, and the current engine with some exhaust tweaks which included going from a 2.25" glasspack to a 2.375" Flowmaster and corresponding tune made the 144 shown above, measured on a DynoMite. Same operator and location, they went from Dynojet to DynoMite. Drivetrain losses excepted, that was a separate conversation with the operator. I also understand that different operators on different machines get different numbers, so really this is all bench racing. I don't take these as absolute numbers, they are really just for personal comparative purposes so that I know we're moving in the right direction with mods.

I'll never say that this car "rips", I've had enough stuff that's actually fast to know the difference. It does, however, hold its own against mild turbo cars (13c at .8bar, intake and exhaust mods etc). It is missing that torque surge on acceleration though so we get our asses handed to us coming off corners if we don't have momentum. It will kick the sh*t out of as many 5.0 Mustangs you wanna throw at it.

It's fun nonetheless, knowwhatImean?
 
Last edited:
shoestring said:
I'll never say that this car "rips", I've had enough stuff that's actually fast to know the difference. It does, however, hold its own against mild turbo cars (13c at .8bar, intake and exhaust mods etc). It is missing that torque surge on acceleration though so we get our asses handed to us coming off corners if we don't have momentum. It will kick the sh*t out of as many 5.0 Mustangs you wanna throw at it.

It's fun nonetheless, knowwhatImean?
Click to expand...
:nod: It would feel more like it rips if you put one of those lumpier cams in it with less power before 5,000rpm and they carry it out past 6,000rpm, though! But that's just a feeling and doesn't necessarily make the car faster in an endurance racing aspect with an M47 for spread apart gearing(let alone the fuel mileage hit).

Speaking of which, what rear end gear do you guys have and what size tires are you running? We have a 4.56:1 rear in the General Leif, so the gearing is pretty decent actually(except 1st, of course!). :oogle: Now we have the 2.95 1st gearset T5 transmission with the Sebring .8 fifth gear, so it's even better. Can't wait for tomorrow! Hopefully the tune can be sorted out quickly enough.
 
Nice. We're on 205/50-15, 225/45-15, 225/50-15 or 225/45-16 depending on the day, wheel, how old the tires are/what's lying around, track, etc... Haha
redblockpowered said:
I've got the dyno files here, and attempted to Photoshop a nice little overlay to get a clearer comparison. H cam is the more faded of the two.
Click to expand...
Do you have the ability to change the scaling of the AFR side so we can see better what it's actually running? Say, having it cap out at like 18:1 or something instead of almost 29? The difference between the camshafts doesn't look like too much(your dad says the tuning wasn't changed and it was direct back to back comparison with the same valve clearances).
 
klr142 said:
Do you have the ability to change the scaling of the AFR side so we can see better what it's actually running? Say, having it cap out at like 18:1 or something instead of almost 29? The difference between the camshafts doesn't look like too much(your dad says the tuning wasn't changed and it was direct back to back comparison with the same valve clearances).
Click to expand...

On these we do not, they're just .pdfs from the dyno shop. All previous runs on the Dynojet we do, and that was up to the 140hp iteration. You have WinPep?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top