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Old 05-16-2021, 04:24 PM   #1
tog244
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Default clarifying b230f+t questions

I have an overwhelming amount of info of potential things to do for a +t and I'm trying to compile as much as I can to make the process go smoothly.

I have an 87 244 DL with LH 2.2 with an H cam
I have the basic hardware, turbo, manifold, intercooler, piping, etc
I have the bosch idle air control module(pretty sure this is useless but grabbed it just in case) and jetronic ECU both out of an 84 GLT turbo

Can I simply hook up the turbo and have the car run alright at low boost (I imagine 6-7 from what I've heard) for now on the N/A ignition and fuel ECU's? is that a terrible idea?
I've heard to get the ECU from a turbo car from a close year to your car but can I do anything with the ECU I have from the GLT?
I've heard a lot about converting to EZK which seems like a daunting DIY project or an expensive new harness, but I have also heard that it wasn't necessary?
For the record, I have read many threads about these topics but I've found conflicting information and want to do this right the first time with the little time I have available to tinker on the car.
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:07 PM   #2
740atl
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I wouldn’t recommend driving with boost and the stock computers.

You can hook the turbo up but leave the wastegate arm unconnected.

You don’t need anything off the 84. Your car already has an idle valve.

You will need to convert to the different ignition system. The chrysler system on the car won't deal well with boost.


If you will run lh2.2, you will need a turbo fuel and ignition computer from an lh2.2 740 turbo.

I don't know what you're referring to about any new harnesses, but to convert, you need the aforementioned ezk117 computer and a bit of wiring. Do you have a junkyard near you that you can source parts?

The EZK117 swap isn't rocket surgery. I watched a person do it in about an hour.

If you can do the mechanical heavy lifting in getting a working turbo setup on the car with oil feed/return, exhaust, intercooler pipes, then wiring shouldn't be a huge extra step.

What is the conflicting info you’re reading?

Last edited by 740atl; 05-16-2021 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:38 PM   #3
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Honestly, disconnecting the wastegate arm didn't cross my mind but that's a good idea to start assembling it without having to do everything at once
and I had heard I needed to on some posts and others didn't mention it so I wasn't sure how necessary it was
I don't think I've heard much about that swap but is it the "240 - LH 2.4 plus EZK 116 Full Conversion Harness" on https://www.prancingmoose.com/harnessconversions.html

I want to do this as simply as possible and without dumping a ton of money into it and with that harness it seems like I'd need a new icu, ecu, ignition coil, powerstage, fuel injection temp sensor, knock sensor, and maybe new injectors.
all of those various things combined with the price of the harness starts to add up so I was trying to save some money where I could (if this is the only way to do it, that's understandable but I figured I'd try to ask around)
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:48 PM   #4
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Have you done any wiring work before? If you can follow a wiring diagram, it's not rocket surgery.

So, if you plan to stick with lh2.2 in the car you will need to do the ezk117 swap. You'll need to find an 88 or earlier 740 turbo, cut out the ezk117 wiring (at least a bit of it) and wire it in using instructions shown here... http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=129382

Another option to consider is to do a complete lh2.4/ezk116 swap. If your current ride has the cranksensor holes drilled in the back of the block on top of the bellhousing you're in business and we can talk more, if not, it's a no-go.

If you're into spending money, I'm sure Dave Barton's kit is a great idea, but I consider it against the spirit of turbobricks to spend that kind of money on something I can get and do and learn for myself.

There's always megasquirt. For the same money for one of the prancingharnesses, you could have a complete running megasquirt setup where you can tune yourself and then the need for rare parts (740 turbo ezk117 ecus) is defeated.

If you can do wiring, you can do megasquirt. Sound intriguing?
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Old 05-16-2021, 06:02 PM   #5
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Technically yes, but nothing more than a head unit or a gauge using crimped connectors which is why it seemed a bit daunting
and I had seen that thread but got lost on some of the parts- likely because I didn't have the items in front of me to look at
What are the benefits of doing this? and I can go look if you let me know what to look for
I don't want to spend that much money but it seems like I've already fallen down the spiral
sounds a bit intriguing, although I'm not sure how knowledgeable I need to be to do that, I've only just started working on cars- this 240 being my first
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Old Yesterday, 06:01 AM   #6
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Yes, the amount of information scales with possibilities.


If you're looking to keep this as simple as possible, stay with lh2.2. You'll still going to need a turbo fuel computer from a 88 and earlier 740 turbo... as well as higher flowing injectors (think late model FWD volvo turbo injectors... high impedance... that way you don't need the ballast injector module).

If you don't mind dancing with the devil so to speak, keep the chrysler ignition (BTW...if you have this thing, you have chrysler ignition https://www.epartsland.com/products/...17873-81-82-83) and just keep the boost low. Be prepared to replace some headgaskets and/or pistons however. ymmv.

If you'd like a greater margin of safety, do the ezk117 swap. (ezk117 is the ignition system that went with lh2.2).

If you don't plan to go beyond the 5-6psi range of boost.... ever... and you have a good ear for when your engine is knocking then you might be done and you could do this whole thing on the cheap.


Boost is addictive however... you're going to want to start upping the boost within the first week of driving. That's when those headgaskets come in handy.
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Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM   #7
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My grand plans were to use 850 turbo injectors I believe
and unfortunately, I know that ill want to reach that 14 psi asap

as fun as dancing with the devil, I think id be better off just getting the ezk117 ignition (i do have a chrysler ignition)
would you recommend lh2.2 and the ezk swap, along with a turbo ECU? (i believe that accounts for everything but correct me if I'm confused)
why would I go to 2.4, if there are any reasons/benefits
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Old Yesterday, 10:08 AM   #8
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If I were you id buy an intercooler first before boosting the engine. That will allow as a first step for you to safely boost to 14 pounds. If you have the intercooler and the stock injectors for a 230 turbo you can do this easily. I was running 17 with a kjet. APC and terminal 11 trick. Here's a place where a 100 dollar apc turbo knock computer could land and help a beginner. I personally don't see any reason u need any particular advanced ignition or fuel mapping to pull 14 elbows in an injected b230. As long as you have the FI's intercooler and unit like an APC monitoring knock. I have 5 v70 turbo injectors if that interest you. I run low ohm units with my aftermarket ecu not them. It seems inherent that a 2.4 system is natively set up to deliver more fuel than a 2.2. Is the computer vastly different or is it generally just mapping.......

Regards
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Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM   #9
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I've got an intercooler, the 84 GLT turbo had one that I grabbed (interestingly, the automatic from the same year same trim level didn't have one but the manual one did). Both cars had a kjet system so ill probably just get some high impedance injectors new. this is the first I've heard of an APC turbo knock computer and the terminal 11 trick, care to elaborate? I think (keyword) that by switching to the ezk ignition from my current Chrysler one, that eliminates the biggest difference between 2.2 and 2.4
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Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
If I were you id buy an intercooler first before boosting the engine. That will allow as a first step for you to safely boost to 14 pounds. If you have the intercooler and the stock injectors for a 230 turbo you can do this easily. I was running 17 with a kjet. APC and terminal 11 trick. Here's a place where a 100 dollar apc turbo knock computer could land and help a beginner. I personally don't see any reason u need any particular advanced ignition or fuel mapping to pull 14 elbows in an injected b230. As long as you have the FI's intercooler and unit like an APC monitoring knock. I have 5 v70 turbo injectors if that interest you. I run low ohm units with my aftermarket ecu not them. It seems inherent that a 2.4 system is natively set up to deliver more fuel than a 2.2. Is the computer vastly different or is it generally just mapping.......

Regards
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Dude just stop on the apc! Oh and get an intercooler before he gets a turbo?

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Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tog244 View Post
My grand plans were to use 850 turbo injectors I believe
and unfortunately, I know that ill want to reach that 14 psi asap

as fun as dancing with the devil, I think id be better off just getting the ezk117 ignition (i do have a chrysler ignition)
would you recommend lh2.2 and the ezk swap, along with a turbo ECU? (i believe that accounts for everything but correct me if I'm confused)
why would I go to 2.4, if there are any reasons/benefits
I'm trying not to confuse you but give you simple, legit advice.

I'm not sure what else to say... if you want the boost, you'll need the ezk117 from an 88 and earlier 740 turbo.

the terminal 11 trick is for 84-earlier kjet turbo cars.

lh2.2 is not the same thing as lh2.4 LH2.4 and ezk 116 was used paired together on 89-later 240's and 740's. lh2.2 and ezk117 was used on 88 and earlier 740's..... 240's earlier than 89 got lh2.2 and chrysler ignition.

If it was my money and I didn't mind learning a thing or two, I'd do the lh2.4 swap but that depends on whether your block has the crank sensor holes already drilled on the back of the block... did you check?

Or if I knew what I know about lh2.4, I'd skip both and go right to an aftermarket EMS system like the megasquirt I mentioned before.

APC is an ancient spark warning system from saabs which is probably as hard to piece together now as a live session of the Beatles. You're not even there yet.

Last edited by 740atl; Yesterday at 12:47 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM   #12
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That's why I'm here, you've been a huge help in explaining all of this nomenclature
so my options are keeping the lh2.2 and getting an ezk117 ignition, swapping to lh2.4 and getting an ezk116 ignition, or getting a standalone ECU?
I haven't checked for the crank sensor holes, what do they look like?
how intense would installing the megasquirt be?
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Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740atl View Post
Dude just stop on the apc! Oh and get an intercooler before he gets a turbo?
Hey its not an apc thing ist a low budget build thing. I have no idea why you think because people have learned to chip tune Bosch ecus and ignitions you need to do that to hit 14 elbows when I did it RELIABLY with the the stock kjet, 6 wire ignition module 0227100018, and the stock 2 wire distributor from 1983 but hey I'm an old dude that has never done this already. The electronic control units my cars sport are over 2 grand EZK cant touch it,but that wasn't the point I was just trying to help some one with a small comment the eazy way to 14 pounds which really isnt alot if you know what you are doing. Carry on it was just an interesting amount of work for a not so outta of the universe boost level. Sorry for commenting here but the car has an air mass meters and that measure the air coming into the manifold turbo or not it will automagically compensate fuel as long as he as an injector his stock ecu can idle but will support 14 pounds which a stock turbo injector should be able to do. If he's using a stock fuel pressure regulator of a turbo on his rail. What's going to be the issue at 1 bar? Without a chip tuned EZK?


Regards
Hubert

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Old Yesterday, 01:34 PM   #14
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How is talking about the terminal 11 trick any help whatsoever to the OP?
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Old Yesterday, 01:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tog244 View Post
That's why I'm here, you've been a huge help in explaining all of this nomenclature
so my options are keeping the lh2.2 and getting an ezk117 ignition, swapping to lh2.4 and getting an ezk116 ignition, or getting a standalone ECU?
I haven't checked for the crank sensor holes, what do they look like?
how intense would installing the megasquirt be?
top of the block in the image in this thread... if your block has the holes, an LH2.4 swap could be in your future.

http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/sh...d.php?t=318727
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Old Yesterday, 01:39 PM   #16
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It points out that fairly easy adjustments in the fuel delivery of even an antiquated system will support his boost goals It was in a much less efficient fuel delivery system than he already has, so why get deeply into chip tuning at his level. He has to have more fuel to be safe. If simply opening the duty cycle on the kjet supported over 16 pounds with a 1983 vr distributor and ignition module. Im quite sure his stock engine management and ignition can. That's just from my experience and what I feel to be common sense, and why be mad about it. For me its not that serious. So if it is you guys just hate everything old go on I wont say another word but mentioning things from my 44 years in bricks I didn't think would hurt anyone too badly. Please forgive me.

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Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM   #17
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And how the **** is he supposed to integrate kjet into his lh2.2 ride?
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Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM   #18
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I ran 15psi boost successfully on LH2.2 with Ford brown top injectors, they are low-z so they need the resistor pack. I also did the EZK swap when I switched over from k jet. Edit this was with lh2.2 turbo ecu and ezk.
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Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM   #19
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Clearly u dont understand my post . I never said anything about him putting a kjet system in his car. If you read the post just above this about the stock LH 2.2 and mine again maybe it becomes clear after u calm down.


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Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM   #20
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If the mappable EZK ignition will mate with his 2.2 why are we fighting? What is the problem here? The APC is also a cheap safeguard at 14 pounds. Volvo calls it a plus system (+). Are the Swedes dumb? The APC is actually his ear that can hear the knock and cut boost back until it goes away. I've went back and read what he has already acquired and he is pretty much good. In time...If he's going to do anything for the most bang and its would be to see if he can actually grab a complete turbo motor of any year in good running order. He'd be better off with the factor reversed dome mahle pistons . FT rods and crank for a turbo in his block. If he looks around he can find a complete motor for cheaper than having that crank, turbo rods, and proper pistons fitted if he cannot do it himself. If Im not mistaken his year car may already have some level of knock sense that will retard his ignition with poor gas etc.


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Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
If the mappable EZK ignition will mate with his 2.2 why are we fighting? What is the problem here? The APC is also a cheap safeguard at 14 pounds. Volvo calls it a plus system (+). Are the Swedes dumb? The APC is actually his ear that can hear the knock and cut boost back until it goes away. I've went back and read what he has already acquired and he is pretty much good. In time...If he's going to do anything for the most bang and its would be to see if he can actually grab a complete turbo motor of any year in good running order. He'd be better off with the factor reversed dome mahle pistons . FT rods and crank for a turbo in his block. If he looks around he can find a complete motor for cheaper than having that crank, turbo rods, and proper pistons fitted if he cannot do it himself. If Im not mistaken his year car may already have some level of knock sense that will retard his ignition with poor gas etc.


Regards
Hubert
I don't mean to be a dick here, but...I mean, you wrong. He doesn't need turbo rods/pistons and LH2.2/ezk has a knock sensor. Further, most ft motors are way more clapped out than late model NA motors at this point. Additionally, an NA motor will live a long time with a basic +t and just a manual boost controller.

15g/16t
90+
850 t5 orange injectors
14-15 psi
12 degrees base timing
stock LH2.2/ezk computers.
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Old Yesterday, 06:56 PM   #22
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oh, if $390 is too expensive for a drop in brand new lh2.2/ezk harness, I suggest you find a new hobby.
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Old Yesterday, 07:03 PM   #23
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I can't tell what I'm looking for on that picture, but what benefits would lh2.4 bring with ezk as compared to if I got a turbo lh2.2 ECU and an ezk117 to hopefully run up to 14 pounds (or maybe closer to 12 reliably) with some injectors and maybe some better fuel pumps?

with that in mind how does this ecu look https://www.ebay.com/itm/32080615007...wAAMXQ-KRRiIOA
it claims to be an 85 740 turbo ecu but it seems like they didn't make turbo 740's in 1985... what should I look for in a used turbo ecu?
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RvolvoR View Post
I don't mean to be a dick here, but...I mean, you wrong. He doesn't need turbo rods/pistons and LH2.2/ezk has a knock sensor. Further, most ft motors are way more clapped out than late model NA motors at this point. Additionally, an NA motor will live a long time with a basic +t and just a manual boost controller.

15g/16t
90+
850 t5 orange injectors
14-15 psi
12 degrees base timing

stock LH2.2/ezk computers.
I don't consider you a dick simply because you have an opinion based on your experiences that may be different and we disagree about the parts strength in the native engines respectively. I said I was not sure about the knock sensor. As far as motors the ft engine has stouter rods than na. I didn't say it was essential to run 14 pounds but it sure helps when he steps up from there. Since the turbo motor would come with a t cam and small things like that if he buys a complete motor he saves in that way. If you run flat tops that's cool but I do not an they didn't in turbo cars. It mean its one way for more compression and I think then the bottom becomes more important when you grow beyond 14 pounds.. It isn't really wrong if he does it and it works well.

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Old Yesterday, 09:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RvolvoR View Post
oh, if $390 is too expensive for a drop in brand new lh2.2/ezk harness, I suggest you find a new hobby.
I just don't want to spend all this money to find out it was a sketchy way to do it and ruin my car- if that's what's needed to do it right then I'm happy to get that, but if I can get a standalone for a comparable price then I don't want to regret spending this money now.
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