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b230R build

2manyturbos said:
There are multi-stage electronic boost controllers to deal with what you are concerned about.
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I wanna ask more questions about that, but I think I'd be muddying the thread at that point.

Are these engines forgiving enough that we can just put rods and pistons if assuming that the bores aren't terribly tapered? It sounds like the aftermarket parts are already pre-balanced well enough for most peoples needs. I'd just prefer not to get a machine shop involved if I don't really need to.

Hopefully this is relevant to the OP too. If not I'll drop it. We just seem to have pretty similar goals.
 
volvowagoon said:
I wanna ask more questions about that, but I think I'd be muddying the thread at that point.

Are these engines forgiving enough that we can just put rods and pistons if assuming that the bores aren't terribly tapered? It sounds like the aftermarket parts are already pre-balanced well enough for most peoples needs. I'd just prefer not to get a machine shop involved if I don't really need to.

Hopefully this is relevant to the OP too. If not I'll drop it. We just seem to have pretty similar goals.
Click to expand...

I would say that it depends on revs and modifications.

The blocks themselves would be kosher to run as is so long as the specs/tolerance is all good.

Inline 4's and 6's are commonly a "no balance" kind of deal unless you mod the crank. 4s are 2 up 2 down, so you always have counter weight opposing counterweight, does that make sense? So as long as your piston and rod assemblies are weight matched you don't really disturb this balance unless journals are super loose and it starts throwing weight around in a weird way.
 
volvowagoon said:
I wanna ask more questions about that, but I think I'd be muddying the thread at that point.

Are these engines forgiving enough that we can just put rods and pistons if assuming that the bores aren't terribly tapered? It sounds like the aftermarket parts are already pre-balanced well enough for most peoples needs. I'd just prefer not to get a machine shop involved if I don't really need to.

Hopefully this is relevant to the OP too. If not I'll drop it. We just seem to have pretty similar goals.
Click to expand...

wow the Thread went off like a nuke
yeah that was what i wanted to do but then i realised that the bore was rough so i got it bored to 96.31 but i "could" have just thrown pistons in it, i guess depends on the Power you want to make and for how long
 
cwdodson88 said:
I would say that it depends on revs and modifications.

The blocks themselves would be kosher to run as is so long as the specs/tolerance is all good.

Inline 4's and 6's are commonly a "no balance" kind of deal unless you mod the crank. 4s are 2 up 2 down, so you always have counter weight opposing counterweight, does that make sense? So as long as your piston and rod assemblies are weight matched you don't really disturb this balance unless journals are super loose and it starts throwing weight around in a weird way.
Click to expand...

Yes, and I never really thought of it that way! Most of my sensitive nerves around rebuilding engines comes from Buick V6 research. Those things are stupid finicky and off balance by nature. I remember seeing videos of a shop grinding new Eagle rods toward the crank journal or piston based on the weight of a certain section of rod with jigs. Only after that could they balance the whole rotating assembly which just looked WAY beyond my ambition or expertise. :lol: Is that more of a concern for just V blocks?

Bloody244 said:
wow the Thread went off like a nuke
yeah that was what i wanted to do but then i realised that the bore was rough so i got it bored to 96.31 but i "could" have just thrown pistons in it, i guess depends on the Power you want to make and for how long
Click to expand...

Cool! Asking a shop for a simple overbore wouldn't phase me too much. I think I would be more worried once line bores, and crank work are involved. It sounds like that may not be necessary in a red block as long as the bearings aren't spun.
 
volvowagoon said:
I wanna ask more questions about that, but I think I'd be muddying the thread at that point.

Are these engines forgiving enough that we can just put rods and pistons if assuming that the bores aren't terribly tapered? It sounds like the aftermarket parts are already pre-balanced well enough for most peoples needs. I'd just prefer not to get a machine shop involved if I don't really need to.

Hopefully this is relevant to the OP too. If not I'll drop it. We just seem to have pretty similar goals.
Click to expand...

The rotating assemblies are balanced at the factory, but not to great precision.
Most of the aftermarket parts are balanced and more consistent in weight. It's still a good idea to check the small and big end weights on rods, and then match up the pistons to reduce the variance in the small end weights.

Same for the cranks, they're not great from the factory. A fully balanced redblock is a lot smoother at higher revs than a stock bottom end.

The only balancing that you need to pay someone to do is the crank. The rods and pistons you can do yourself with a $20 scale and some time.
 
culberro said:
The rotating assemblies are balanced at the factory, but not to great precision.
Most of the aftermarket parts are balanced and more consistent in weight. It's still a good idea to check the small and big end weights on rods, and then match up the pistons to reduce the variance in the small end weights.

Same for the cranks, they're not great from the factory. A fully balanced redblock is a lot smoother at higher revs than a stock bottom end.

The only balancing that you need to pay someone to do is the crank. The rods and pistons you can do yourself with a $20 scale and some time.
Click to expand...

Ahh okay. While I would be increasing power, I by no means have earth shattering goals. I just want the bottom end to be the last thing I need to worry about after adding 50-100hp. It would still be a driver that's rarely beat on too.
 
volvowagoon said:
Ahh okay. While I would be increasing power, I by no means have earth shattering goals. I just want the bottom end to be the last thing I need to worry about after adding 50-100hp. It would still be a driver that's rarely beat on too.
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I'd just leave it alone.

Just make sure the wrist pins have enough clearance on the pin bushings. Sometimes they're a little tight on the chinese h-beams. Big ends have been spot on for me.
 
culberro said:
I'd just leave it alone.

Just make sure the wrist pins have enough clearance on the pin bushings. Sometimes they're a little tight on the chinese h-beams. Big ends have been spot on for me.
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Leave what alone? A 13mm rod engine or a 9mm? Either way, I'd be happy to oblige! lol
 
If 13mm, leave it alone. If 9mm, take the gamble or install some rods (13mm or some h-beams).
 
culberro said:
I think you?re pretty low in your air temps. Post compressor temps can be upwards of 400F depending on boost level and compressor efficiency. I did the calcs a while back and I think we?re probably 300f post compressor temps. This is why good intercoolers are so important..
Click to expand...

Gotcha. I was using the MAP_req equation on page 6 off https://www.garrettmotion.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/GAM_Turbo-Tech-103_Expert-1.pdf. Since it uses

Tm = Intake Manifold Temperature (degrees F)

I assumed that was after the intercooler, and maybe 130F was a good average compromise. It also means that knowing how effective an intercooler can be is rather important.

culberro said:
8v red blocks suffer from huge flow restrictions in both intake and exhaust, so they?ll never make the claimed HP that the turbo manufactures list. This is why most 8v engines need fairly large turbos so make reasonable HP. The pumping efficiency is really low, so you need more pressure or flow rate to overcome the losses..

Good source on compressors and temps:
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/turbocharger_technology.htm

Data point:
Harlards 8v was a hand wavy 250 hp at 25psi (ported head as well) , and his 16v is 300whp at 12psi (I think) using the same turbo and bottom end. Only real difference is the head and intake manifold change. That?s also with a 90+ bolted onto a 16v, so there?s more to be made with a better flowing exhaust for sure. 8v heads flow terribly.
Click to expand...

Given that I found somewhere (Volvo book? Need to find again) the volumetric efficiency of the B234 is 83.5% @5600 RPM, which sounds pretty bad, I agree that the B230 head can only be much much worse.
 
2manyturbos said:
You just did a fantastic summation for us. There is absolutely no reason for you to be on here anymore because all you want to do is grandstand and insult anyone that doesn't think you are a god, or, disagrees with you. I'm going to give you a short vacation while the rest of the moderators decide your fate.
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a mod baiting someone isn't exactly a level playing field.
 
so i got it running near perfect only problem i got is that the temp gauge climbs to the top of the red part it stays there, it doesnt go up or down. its weird because the top hose is hot and the bottom hose stays cold when the engine is warm there is nearly no pressure in the system (doesnt leak)

i already replaced the thermostat 92?C with a colder 87?C , brand new coolant, new larger E-fan, new hoses and radiator have also done the temp faker mod still the same with or without the mod
timing is at 10?
 
Do you have a mechanical temp gauge or a infrared temp gun you can use?
Check the temp of the thermostats housing or the top radiator hose.
 
If you spray water on the thermostat housing when the temp is in the red area, does the water instantly evaporate/boil?
Can you grab the upper radiator hose without it severely burning your hand?
 
If you can grab the top hose, then your thermostat might be stuck or in backwards (I think backwards is only possible with skinny aftermarket thermostats).
 
culberro said:
If you spray water on the thermostat housing when the temp is in the red area, does the water instantly evaporate/boil?
Can you grab the upper radiator hose without it severely burning your hand?
Click to expand...

it burns when i touch it for 2-3 seconds when i touched the upper hose

can there be not enough flow through the thermostat

because i put it in hot water and it openend completely
 
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did you put any caps anywhere when storing the parts? i know that seems dumb to ask but i accidentally did that once. did you put a new water pump on it?
 
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