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Brand new '81 262C Bertone Coupe . . .

....... Converting to an aftermarket fuel/ignition system would probably cost more that the 302 swap even considering that I would have to replace the engine crane that I sold after swearing never to pull another engine.

Tom, it would actually be cheaper than you think. The hard part is done.... you have an electronic fuel pump system. You can build a "fuel only" Megasquirt and leave your ignition alone if it works reliably. I've not bought one lately, but the prebuilt MS2 boxes were running around $600 I think and the rest of the inputs that MS typically uses (and you must have) are a throttle position sensor, O2 sensor, coolant temp. sensor, and some sort of idle control (some get away without this and just warm her up old school). I don't know your 6 cylinder engine injection as I've avoided KJet (did help my son convert his 81 244 to MS1 using a later intake).

It really isn't that bad. The most difficult part for you is a proper throttle body with a sensor that will speak to MS, and of course the injectors & FPR. Wasn't there a later version of this exact engine that was EFI?

I'm feeling your pain, for sure. God knows I've poured thousands of hours into various projects over the last couple decades..... I'm tapering off a bit now ;-)
 
Tom check Lambda dwell to verify where it is in open loop VS closed loop. Is it leaning it out?

I always set them to .8 Volt at the O2 sensor in open loop. It is supposed to lean it out from there.

With idle CO set right and the frequency valve adjusting fuel... It *should be OK.

As for power.... Do you KNOW for a fact that it doesn't have some wierd regrind cam that got ground wrong? I have seen this.
 
Wasn't there a later version of this exact engine that was EFI?

Volvo B-280. We got the 'F' version here in the states.

Fun one is the Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco version that has 'E' heads, 93mm bore size and much improved exhaust manifolds. Give it the B-280 throttle body for 170 horses that idle perfectly smooth and never need valve adjustments. Use the EP/DM Renix (wierd Frenchie) engine management and it will control idle speed with bump-up for A/C and radiator fan if you do the electric fan.
I used the complete DM accessory drive for a nice serp belt, quiet A/C compressor, German P/S pump and 120amp alternator. Not as hard as it sounds.
 
Go or no go for the show Tom? Looking like rain for show day/Sat. I'm out, for other reasons. But I rarely knowingly travel to one to stand around/drive the car through the rain.
 
I gave up.

A few months ago the lift fuel pump would not pump fuel. Replacement pump had dissolved the short tubing above the pump to the hard line.

A couple weeks ago the steering rack that had worked for 5 years in the 100+ miles I have driven in that time then blew a seal the day I attempted to drive it out of the garage to wash it.

The CO adjustment with the frequency valve has been working for 5 years now and tested/adjusted many times. Suddenly dead. Got the diagnostic chart out and the first test was for 12v at pin 8 on the control unit. No 12v.

I fixed this issue once before. A post on 6/24/2012 describes how cleaning the contacts in the System Relay fixed the pin 8 issue and started the frequency valve operation.

May take a vacation from cars. Got to finish my Boy Scout camp restrooms and showers before about 100 little short people show up in November.
 
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A rainy and cold Saturday and I could have been sitting in a lawn chair on a golf course in South Carolina where it was raining harder.

Took a big nap and researched Frequency Valve operation.

The module pinout:

#2 and #4 O2 sensor input
#5 ground
#7 operating ground from thermal switch or micro switch
#8 12v power from System Relay
#15 ground to Frequency Valve for operation
#16 ground

edited-image_4.jpg~original



The System Relay

#15 ground to Frequency Valve
#30 permanent 12v power
#85 ground
#86 12v power from fuel pump relay
#87 12v power to pin #8 of Module
#87a power to Frequency Valve

edited-image_5.jpg~original


The schematic in the '81 Green Book does not have wire color codes. System relay pin 30 appears to be red in a large gauge, Pin 87 again is red and a large gauge. Pin 86 is blue/green, and pin 87a is green.

I believe I opened this relay and cleaned the contacts about 7 years ago. Probably should replace it. Bosch 0332015006 / Volvo 1324749.

Doesn't come up in IPD, Tasco or FCP in a search.

Anyone got one, preferable new?
 
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Nelson,

The System Relay is the middle one but since they clip onto the power buss bar they could get swapped.
 
Replaced the plugs and O2 sensor today while awaiting the very rare OEM Bosch metal case System Relay. Never mind the picture on ebay, if you order a 006 relay at the moment it is going to come in a blue plastic housing.

edited-image_6.jpg~original


Really strange that #6 cylinder was far more sooted up than others and #4 appeared that it had never been fired. Injectors were new Bosch 4 years and about a gallon of gas ago. Fuel Distributor has been commercially rebuilt and I assume calibrated. I used 'commercially' rebuilt rather than 'professionally' rebuilt since JayTan is no longer in business.
 
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Would anyone like to comment on the difference between the #4 and #6 plugs? Number 4 appears never to have been fired. Number 6 looks like it is running very rich.

edited-image_7.jpg~original



This car has only been driven perhaps a hundred miles since these plugs were changed.

Do I need to get the baby bottles out again?
 
I’d try and get it going again Tom with some consistency and THEN try to assess things like the plugs. Not driving it regularly is, of course, tough in one. And lots of things can cause a plug to look like that - a bit of coolant in that cylinder could do that as well. You gotta get it going.

You see my question above?
 
My very rare OEM metal case 006 relay is due in maybe tomorrow. Sorta put the Bertone in second place. I have about a hundred little short Boy/Girl Scout people showing up in 2 weeks and I have a restroom to complete.

edited-image_8.jpg~original
 
I appreciate your commitment to the Scouts.... having done around 8 years with Webelos/Scouts as a leader, they need care and support from adults such as yourself. Kudos!

For sure, that single plug wasn't firing, and/or was washed out by a coolant leak as Michael opined. Did you ever put a clamp on timing light on each wire/plug combo? Did this V6 ever run long enough to determine if it consumed coolant? My few experiences with coolant leaks (HG's) showed a white insulator of the plugs.... should be plenty o' online pics showing the color of the insulators and assigned cause. We're pulling for you Tom!
 
The problem with the Frequency Valve was the computer. It was the one that came with the car and has worked and not worked over the years. It was not the correct one anyway. It was for a VW 4 cylinder. I installed a correct one and the FV vibrates. Still am unsure that it is passing gas.

Here is my shot glass measurements of fuel distribution cylinders 1 - 6. This is at idle for enough time to fill the baby bottles to the amount needed for shot glass measurements. Obviously, the fuel distributor is in trouble.

Bertone_Fuel_ballance_at_idle_by_injector.jpg


First thing is to get the 2 year old gas out of the tank and check for debris. Pulled the hose off the back of the pressure pump and let the lift pump suck the tank dry into a 16 gallon storage container. No trash but old gas.

After the shot glass fuel test I had to break the Fuel Distributor open. It appears that the commercial rebuilder used JB Weld as the sealing product. It was a mess in there but no obvious failure. O rings on the center hub were 'rusty' but there was no indication that would have caused the uneven fuel distribution. Two of the small O rings on the oblong ports were broken but again that wouldn't seem like a cause of such uneven distribution. The very fine vertical splits within the ports did not appear blocked when inspected by shining a very strong light through them. Each had a sharp, unobstructed light image. That is the first place I expected to find blockage.

The nozzles on the fuel pressure volume regulators all were dead level with the cast iron surface. The springs and caps are evenly the 5.2-3mm specified in the rebuild YouTube video.

The nozzle's passages apparently do not go straight through. Even the finest wire I could come up with, from a fine wire wheel, did not pass through. Much smaller than the opening but not, apparently directly connected to the outside. That is where I expected to find another obstruction or other issues with the fuel volume.

(edited)_PF_injector_ports.jpg


I placed the upper half on a paper towel and blew air through the injector ports down into the chamber of the FD. Got spots of trash at each port.

(edited)_Bertone_FD_trash_blown_out_of_ports.jpg


Obviously, the seal is going to be based on a sealant applied to the iron top and bottom mating with the stainless steel shim. That is the question for the night . . . what sealant? I have read Indian Head Shellac, and red thread locker. Never heard of JB Weld before.

What say the experts?

The JB Weld was really a mess to clean up.

BEFORE:

(edited)_(edited)_(edited)_(edited)_FD_as_found_1.jpg


AFTER:

Bertone_Fuel_Distributor_Halves.jpg


Note the rough surface of the cast iron face. No signs of precision machining to ensure no leaks. This unit had to have come from Bosch like that.

The answer to the flange sealant is Loctite 515. Specified exactly for steel to steel seal with an one hour work time and 24 hour full pressure set time.

My best effort at a very thin layer of sealant.

(edited)_FD_with_Loctite_515_sealant.jpg


Probably too much. There is a very small hole in the stainless steel shim that feeds pressure but not much gas to the CPR. I had great concern about blocking that hole.

(edited)_(edited)_FD_New_vs_Old_pressure_plate.jpg


Got it all together and pumped another couple gallons of Chevron Techron through the tank, pumps, filter, fuel distributor and injectors.

Here are the results:

At idle:

Bertone_FD_balance_after_rebuild.jpg


At about 50% throttle:

(edited)_Bertone_FD_balance_100_after_rebuild(2).jpg


At full throttle:

(edited)_20201022_181437.jpg


Compared to pre rebuild that is wonderful.

Bertone_Fuel_ballance_at_idle_by_injector.jpg
 
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I admire your tenacity. I'm curious if you numbered the ports before disassembly and checked those with the fuel output of each one. What I'm trying to find out if in fact the o rings were the problem, broken o ring leaking to much fuel and starving the others? Also from my own research I never seen mention of a sealant but good know what product does work.
Asking around about a rebuilder only the Delorean people in Texas came up but they use an outside company .
 
Tom- great work. Those fuel distributors can get nasty. When you get it back together, get some Redline fuel injector cleaner in a full tank along with some Marvel Mystery Oil. I do this every 3 months about oil change time. The Redline is a detergent, not a solvent, so it won’t deteriorate the rubber parts. Fuel injector cleaning services often use this as their cleaning solution. The Marvel Mystery oil helps lubricate the kjet system. Also, I would try to keep non- ethanol gas in it. There is a station near me and that’s all I put in my 242 Turbo.
 
I found a rebuilder in Fairhope, AL. No history or on-line reviews but seems to make a living working on the Bosch stuff. $600

After my quasi-success I would say it is not that hard.

The shot glasses are in order left to right, 1-6. I was trying to be careful and document anything that could be associated with the major difference between 1 and 6.

Before I got down to the fine measurements I did pump nearly 2 gallons of high concentration Tectron laced gas through the FD and injectors at max throttle. I did swap the injectors between the two ports and they exhibited the same volume disparity clearly indicating that it was the FD and not the injectors. Initially, the #6 injector dripped at idle while all the rest had a fog/spray. After the 2 gal flush it had a spray although much weaker than the rest.

The core and little 'O' rings were beyond including in that individual port analysis as they sorta all came off when the core was removed from the top section. The cuts really were not visible until inspected off the oblong ports.

(edited)_Bertone_FD_cut_O_rings(1).jpg


Blowing air through the FI ports onto a clean paper towel clearly displayed trash in 4 of the 6 nipples but, again, no big identified link to the #1 and FD issue.

(edited)_Bertone_FD_trash_blown_out_of_ports.jpg


The Loctite specifications for the 515 is that it is for sealing STEEL, not aluminum, not plastic machined surfaces. Gave a work time of 1 hour and a set to full pressure in 24. Sounds pretty much what I was looking for. Found the reference in the British Delorean forum. http://www.deloreaneurotec.uk/ucp.php?mode=register
 
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Yes, I have the correct ECM for this year and engine and the FV vibrates but with all the junk that has been pumped through it I do not have high confidence that it operates within whatever specs exist.

I know that the FV is simply an electric fuel injector but does it have anything, like a normal FI pintle, that would restrict fuel from returning? It must have an open/closed port operated by the coil just like any FI.

I ask because this the ONLY thing in the Bosch CI system that has not been replaced with new or serviced. No symptoms to fix at the moment, just education.

Gas cap to FI, everything is new or rebuilt.

I have not started it since putting it all back together. Maybe tomorrow.

I know it is hard to believe but I really do have a life beyond this car.
 
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