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IPD Camshaft install FAIL?

In my case, springs are around #95 seat pressure. Swapping from the failed cam to a replacement cam, new shims, same breakin procedure, oils, etc, saw 0 wear patterns like that over almost 100k, kinda ruling out the spring/valve/head issue.
 
Super weird failure, hope everything gets sorted, I've always run ipd cams in my cars that had a bigger then stock turbo and never had any issues with them
 
122power said:
What springs or pressures are you guys running? Seems you would need a lot for this to happen on this style of head. Unless the metal is really that bad? Even with good oil?
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The springs and retainers are from Josh at Yoshifab https://yoshifab.com/store/volvo-8v-upgraded-valve-spring-set.html

Per his site "This setup has a 100lb seat pressure and will do .500 lift. The steel retainers weigh 8.7g while the stock ones are 22.6g." I don't know what the lift on the IPD camshaft is but I know its not .500 and 100lb seat pressure is not that much.


Stiggy Pop said:
doesn't sound like any help from them whatsoever. Did they offer to take it back and do any post-failure analysis? Do you have the resources to get the failed cam hardness tested?
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I have no clue who could do that.. I think the cam is plenty hard enough its the retainers that seem to have taken the damage.


-Sam
 
RoadRacer4Life said:
I have no clue who could do that.. I think the cam is plenty hard enough its the retainers that seem to have taken the damage.


-Sam
Click to expand...

in theory accelerated wear and damage of the hardened layer on either component could accelerate the wear on the interfacing component. A lot of 'fancier' machine shops should have a hardness probe (the shiny white floor and 5-axis kinda shops). Just a thought if you wanted to start eliminating variables before swapping the parts.

I'd cut open your oil filter and make sure none of the cam/shim material made it past the filter element. If you find reason to be concerned drop the pan and clean it, pop caps and check bearings for damage (assuming the cam journals were ok?).
 
RoadRacer4Life said:
The springs and retainers are from Josh at Yoshifab

Per his site "This setup has a 100lb seat pressure and will do .500 lift. The steel retainers weigh 8.7g while the stock ones are 22.6g." I don't know what the lift on the IPD camshaft is but I know its not .500 and 100lb seat pressure is not that much.
-Sam
Click to expand...

What rpm are you running at?

For the best wear resistance you generally want dissimilar hardness and materials, with proper lubrication. That's why cast-iron (relatively soft) and hard lifters work well together even though they see very high forces/stress.
 
Stiggy Pop said:
in theory accelerated wear and damage of the hardened layer on either component could accelerate the wear on the interfacing component. A lot of 'fancier' machine shops should have a hardness probe (the shiny white floor and 5-axis kinda shops). Just a thought if you wanted to start eliminating variables before swapping the parts.

I'd cut open your oil filter and make sure none of the cam/shim material made it past the filter element. If you find reason to be concerned drop the pan and clean it, pop caps and check bearings for damage (assuming the cam journals were ok?).
Click to expand...

Cam journals looked great. Some fuzzy stuff on my magnetic drain plug but I'm not pulling the pan for that crap I will just change the oil a few times with the new install




culberro said:
What rpm are you running at?

For the best wear resistance you generally want dissimilar hardness and materials, with proper lubrication. That's why cast-iron (relatively soft) and hard lifters work well together even though they see very high forces/stress.
Click to expand...

I've taken it to 7k on the dyno but no real power to be made up there.. Generally per the dyno sheet I'd shift around 6k

-Sam
 
This comment still nags at me:
RoadRacer4Life said:
Another weird thing was most of the damage was on the exhaust cam shims.
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Which lobes/shims exactly were damaged and where/how much?

Do you have access to a spring tester that you can use without disassembling the head? It would help rule out bind. The IPD cam is listed as 0.466" lift, minus your lash(?), should be OK with the yoshi 0.500" lift springs. What are your exhaust valves/guides, and were they installed at the original Volvo depths?

Edit: I was looking for a guide to cam damage showing different patterns, but couldn't find anything. I did run across this brief overview: Comp Cams - Top Ten Reasons for Camshaft & Lifter Failure. [The spark cut rev limiter explanation is wrong.]
 
Last edited:
bobxyz said:
This comment still nags at me:


Which lobes/shims exactly were damaged and where/how much?

Do you have access to a spring tester that you can use without disassembling the head? It would help rule out bind. The IPD cam is listed as 0.466" lift, minus your lash(?), should be OK with the yoshi 0.500" lift springs. What are your exhaust valves/guides, and were they installed at the original Volvo depths?
Click to expand...

I agree with all of the above. I plan on investigating this when I get back in the shop.


-Sam
 
So I did some comparison of the NEW from IPD this month cam vs the 3+ year old IPD cam that was installed in my car a month ago and to my surprise the new cam does not have that coating on it. Take a look and let me know what you think.

172270528.jpg

172270525.jpg

172270524.jpg

172270522.jpg


And no that's not varnish on a camshaft that had only been in the car a few weeks. I'm kinda curious if that coating what ever it is could of caused this failure?

-Sam
 
^^^ yeah, but that would be when the valve opens, not at the tip of the lobe, and the spring isn't pushing so much yet.

If it's binding on the valve stem seals, it would be intakes (redblocks only have an intake seal, needed to prevent sucking oil thru guide during intake stroke - exhaust always has positive pressure when open)

If it's floating the valves, assuming similar lobe profiles and accelerations, the intakes would loft first due to bigger size and more mass (F=MA).

So, damage more on the exhaust side and just past the lobe tip seems weird.
 
Some solid-lifter flat-tappet engines are more prone to eating cams than others. The metallurgy between the cam and lifter (in this case shims) needs to be compatible, and the 2 parts wear together. I know some engine builders who will even not move cams and lifters from 1 engine case (or head) to another because any differences in castings could cause the cam and lifters to sit and wear differently than they had in the previous motor. Now that may an extreme case, but it's a practice based on experience.

When breaking in a new cam, there is a delicate process. I've had good results with a break-in lube and high zddp oil, hold the engine at 3k rpm's for 15 minutes immediately after start up.

The rule of thumb is to never use a new cam with old lifters. The lifters (shims here) may have a concavity and have been worn in with a previous cam. Using a used cam with new lifters I believe is acceptable, as long as the lifter's aren't already poorly worn.

Similar to resurfacing a flywheel, it is common practice to resurface lifters

And the last thing I have to add, is that the lifter rotates in its bore as the cam spins. If the lobe is centered directly over the center of the lifter, it may not spin the lifter, and the cam will dig a groove right into the shim. It may be the case that the lifters were binding in the bores of the head.

I know many of you have gotten with breaking every one of these rules, but I just wanted to add my 2c.
 
FWIW heres a kg2t cam I got quite a while ago, been in the engine for several thousand miles. Looks like it is a cast part and has the parkerizing. It looks like most of that is intact, some appears to be wearing/flaking off the edge of the tips of the lobes. I think these were an "A" intake and "K" exhaust lobe, but maybe longer duration and altered lobe separation? I've never had one of the ipd turbo cams.

No specific break in was done, thought that was more of a thing on ohv engines. Just filled the troughs with oil and some grease only on the bearing journals. New/late b230 springs, retainers, and keepers. Original/used buckets, and mix of new and used shims. Gets spun to 7k regularly. Click the link for a giant version of images.

172272563.jpg

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/81/744881/1/172272563.emFfN67O.PXL_20220114_014556875.jpg

172272564.jpg

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/81/744881/1/172272564.6oWTjq84.PXL_20220114_014908073.jpg

172272565.jpg

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/81/744881/1/172272565.3nn5PU87.PXL_20220114_015105387.jpg
 
leecatd8209 said:
That looks awfully similar to what I had happen with mine. User Mikezohsix also had a similar experience.

When did you buy the ipd cam?





Click to expand...

I am running an IPD Turbo cam which i bought new from IPD around 5(?) yrs ago. It cam with the black coating. Ran for years on reused shims with in spec clearance for years, no issues. B230F+T using na manifold, JPipes, EVO8 turbo 15 psi.

Then i upgraded to 531 ported head with 40mm exh vlvs, 3" TB, KJet manifold & due to increased flow (but same exh manifold setup) EGTs went through the roof (1000 DegC+).

I now have better exh manifold & bigger turbo & egts are back to sensible levels.

However, since the EGT issue my exh vlv clearances keep closing up & when they reach 10 thou the cam eats a shim.

I stripped the head & found vlvs were 'cupping' (valve head sinking into the port), found when measuring as the underside of the vlv head is no longer flat, but sunk in the middle.

For now im putting this down to having softened the vlvs. The tempering temp for the grade of stainless used is around 800deg.

Im currently replacing the valves.

Point to note, is my #2 exh was the one which sinks quickest & eats the shim, same as your clearances show, coincidence??

Make what you will of my own findings & thoughts, but wanted to chip in and share the similar issues im having & working to resolve.
 
I drove the car to work all week and decided last night to check the valve lash and just inspect things. Still not thrilled with the way the shims and camshaft are looking. Not sure whats going on here but I think I'm just gonna start new and get another head from somewhere. I've had this head for a long time and its been abused and neglected enough.
 
Why not try throwing in a doorstop...er...T cam just to see what the wear pattern looks like, keep from ruling out the head? Same pattern for me, old/known VX went in while waiting on the Turbo cam, new shims, and it was just fine.
 
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