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Old 03-29-2021, 07:20 PM   #1
HRPufNStuf
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Default TD04HL13T to 19T?

Anyone still doing this?
Done it recently? Kits? Anyone recommended to do the machining or build the whole thing?

I rebuilt a few T3s back in the day with kits from G Pop shop.

Anything I need to know? I understand the CHRA and the compressor housing require machining?
I know these are old fashioned, but I do like the stock look.

Thanks
Patrick
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Old 03-30-2021, 05:51 AM   #2
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Linuxman (Kenny) has had this setup on his gold car for a while I believe, it works but the exhaust side is restrictive. Kinugawa had a kit at some point they might sell still. I know of a Dutch guy getting the compressor sides machined to make 18t hybrids, so that would be required for sure if you don't get a compressor side in the kit
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Old 03-30-2021, 12:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Swedbrick View Post
Linuxman (Kenny) has had this setup on his gold car for a while I believe, it works but the exhaust side is restrictive. Kinugawa had a kit at some point they might sell still. I know of a Dutch guy getting the compressor sides machined to make 18t hybrids, so that would be required for sure if you don't get a compressor side in the kit
Thanks,
I'm not looking to build a 300HRP race car, just something with some good street/highway passing ability.
I've just received word that I 'll be working 13 hours away from where I currently live for the next two years and will be commuting home a few times a month, so looking a for a comfortable, enjoyable drive in the old 780, so pouring a bit of cash into in at the moment.

I think I recall reading that the CHRA also needs machining?(recessed to accept the larger compressor wheel in addition to the compressor housing?)

I've received two quotes back from shops.
$700USD to upgrade a 13T to 19T...
$1100CDN for the same upgrade from another place....Both assume that no hard parts need to be replaced.

Seems a bit high for my TB sensibilities and modest goals considering these were considered kind of "bolt on" a few years ago.
Anyone have an 18T or 19T sitting around they don't want anymore?
Do you have a link to the Dutch supplier?

Patrick
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Old 03-30-2021, 01:17 PM   #4
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Easiest to get the early 850 15G hotside that has the same downpipe flange as stock redblock turbo, conical it's called. Flows the worst of course. I like flat flange. Angled is the best but harder to make work.

Other then reclocking the 19T and figuring out a bracket for the wastegate you could just buy sheet already to go see links..

The 19T is a HL same as 15g on the hotside, different then 13C which is smaller and bigger 15g or 19T exhaust wheel won't fit inside 13c exhaust housing.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITDT-Bill...item3b4c7c8067

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITDT-Turb...G/254575641553

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-19T-T...0AAOSwh-df2WNh

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bolt-on-Tur...QAAOSweaRelWt1

If cheap is what you want make wanted 15g Conical hotside post. Then get used 19T cheap and reclock and make wastegate bracket yourself then use 15g conical hotside and reclocked 19T and bolt it on your Mitsubishi turboed redblock. IF you don't have mitsu turbo then you also gotta get mitsu oil and water lines, fyi....
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Old 03-30-2021, 03:22 PM   #5
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The dutch guy is here on the forum under the name TurboDutch, if he doesn't respond I can get you into contact, he mostly specializes in 850/v70 stuff so he has a lot laying around. He might be at sea currently, so it could take a while before you get the bits
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:13 PM   #6
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If you don't mind welding a new flange to your downpipe, I'd say a 16T with a flat flange is the easiest and cheapest way to go.

There are 2 varieties of the 16T, flat and angled flange.
For the flat flange, all you need to do is cut off the cone on your current downpipe and weld the flat flange on.

Advantage is that 16T's are easy and cheap to find.
I posted an ad in wanted a few years back and purchased one like a day or two later.

I don't remember exactly, but I want to say I paid somewhere in the $200-$250 region.

I have no experience with a 19T, but the 16T is a very nice upgrade to the 13C, I'm running it at about 0.9bar (about 13psi).
For spirited street driving and passing, it is more than plenty.

I'd suggest an Intercooler upgrade to go with a larger turbo, it was a night / day difference once I installed the KL Racing unit.
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRPufNStuf View Post
I've just received word that I 'll be working 13 hours away from where I currently live for the next two years and will be commuting home a few times a month, so looking a for a comfortable, enjoyable drive in the old 780, so pouring a bit of cash into in at the moment.
fly instead FFS instead of 26 hour trips several times a month
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Old 03-30-2021, 05:56 PM   #8
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I bought a brand new chinese 19t on eBay for $265. Reclocked and good to go. Won't be the popular opinion but worth mentioning. No need to worry about a 150k mile turbo or rebuilding/balancing(which I had troubles with before).
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Old 03-30-2021, 11:18 PM   #9
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fly instead FFS instead of 26 hour trips several times a month
LOL...yep...I suppose you’ve never flown domestically in Canuckistan.
Its much cheaper to fly to Europe or Hawaii from Canada than a 500mile “in Canada” flight between major cities...and right now there are no direct flights from where I live to where I am going due to COVID restrictions.
When I lived in the Netherlands, I could fly the whole family to Rome for less than the cost of parking at the airport.

I still intend to fly every few trips regardless, but thanks for the advice.
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Old 03-30-2021, 11:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by HRPufNStuf View Post
LOL...yep...I suppose you’ve never flown domestically in Canuckistan.
Its much cheaper to fly to Europe or Hawaii from Canada than a 500mile “in Canada” flight between major cities...and right now there are no direct flights from where I live to where I am going due to COVID restrictions.
When I lived in the Netherlands, I could fly the whole family to Rome for less than the cost of parking at the airport.

I still intend to fly every few trips regardless, but thanks for the advice.
LOL...yep...I suppose you’ve never flown domestically in Canuckistan. legion\\
LOL...yep...I suppose you’ve never driven that drive, domestically in Canuckistan, for any long #of times'
Dustchboy.

THAT IS A LONG TRIP
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Old 03-31-2021, 02:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa182 View Post
If you don't mind welding a new flange to your downpipe, I'd say a 16T with a flat flange is the easiest and cheapest way to go.

There are 2 varieties of the 16T, flat and angled flange.
For the flat flange, all you need to do is cut off the cone on your current downpipe and weld the flat flange on.

Advantage is that 16T's are easy and cheap to find.
I posted an ad in wanted a few years back and purchased one like a day or two later.

I don't remember exactly, but I want to say I paid somewhere in the $200-$250 region.

I have no experience with a 19T, but the 16T is a very nice upgrade to the 13C, I'm running it at about 0.9bar (about 13psi).
For spirited street driving and passing, it is more than plenty.

I'd suggest an Intercooler upgrade to go with a larger turbo, it was a night / day difference once I installed the KL Racing unit.



Thanks to everyone for the input.....I should probably clarify...

I actually have a T3 currently installed with a modified (silver soldered extension) drain pipe to work with a 90+ manifold running about 12PSI and a VAG CBV. (Barton turbo gage is the one without graduations so around 12PSI?) . (turbo rebuilt when I rebuilt the motor)
B230T was rebuilt about 14 years ago ( its a 94 block with squirters and larger rods, 2cd oversize pistons and now has about 85K kms on it.)
Has an M90 with a 3.31 LSD out of a 93 960 to give it long legs on the highway. ( I built it to do 4.0 hour trips twice a weekend when I was attending Staff College over a 12 month period back in 2007/8)

I have available in my stash:
- a16T flat flange turbo, a spare down pipe and I machined up a HD flat flange adapter on the lathe. ( also have an OEM flat flange stuck in my mailbox in NY but border is closed:( )
- all the intercooler cooling and oil/H2O pipes for both T3s and TD04HLs variants for B230FT install.
- a 27 Row NPR I have never got around to installing...might look for it in the shed based upon the points above.
- a conical flange TD04 exhaust housing, but it seems to drag a little bit on the 16T turbine when I place the CHRA in it. (HL vs H?)
- a TD04HL-13T with an angled exhaust housing I pulled out of a 1999 V70XC over the past weekend (thought it was going to be a 15G before removing). Again the 16T CHRA/turbine seems to drag a little in the 13T angled housing...(Both are HL I thought??...is one a 6cm^2 and the other a 7cm^2?)
- a set of Fred chips I've never installed.
- a stock rebuilt 531 with 38mm exhaust valves and an IPD turbo cam sitting in a crate.

I don't mind a long drive. ( I used to drive a few times a year to my condo in Florida and put about 100K km on my wife's XC90 over three years in the Netherlands with lots of trips to Portugal, Spain, Italy..etc...) but these days I prejudice reliability and longevity to performance as I use this 91 780 as one of my two "old timer" daily drivers.

So..... I am considering just dumping the 16T into the car with the flat flange and modify my spare downpipe...easy peasy and hopefully reliable........or modifying the 13T I just picked up into a reliable 18T/19T in order to only have to do this mod once if feasible..... as life these days is really getting in the way of my car projects.......

Patrick

Last edited by HRPufNStuf; 03-31-2021 at 06:46 PM..
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Old 03-31-2021, 03:21 PM   #12
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If I were you, I'd just go the 16T + NPR way.

It seems by far the easiest where you're at and I'm not sure if the 13/18/19T combination will actually be that much more noticeable.
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:18 AM   #13
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Which cars have the flat flanges?
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:44 AM   #14
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850/x70 96-98
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Old 04-06-2021, 01:08 PM   #15
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I built a nice 19t using a 15g starting point (turbine) with flat flange. Used the NIW TIG method and correct rod (309L from memory ). Friend who was skilled at TIG properly joined the V band stainless flange to the flat flange 15g. ARD Tuning (gone now I think) 19t compressor wheel and housing that fit without more machining. Rebuilt the CHRA using a factory MITSUBISHI overhaul kit. Excellent "how to rebuild" video again from ARD. Finally sent off the CHRA to Midwest Turbo for balance.

Neither cheap nor easy , but a very satisfying turbo for DD service. IMO the 19t is a great solution for a street driven red block. Full details in my build thread.
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Old 04-07-2021, 09:35 PM   #16
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I built a nice 19t using a 15g starting point (turbine) with flat flange. Used the NIW TIG method and correct rod (309L from memory ). Friend who was skilled at TIG properly joined the V band stainless flange to the flat flange 15g. ARD Tuning (gone now I think) 19t compressor wheel and housing that fit without more machining. Rebuilt the CHRA using a factory MITSUBISHI overhaul kit. Excellent "how to rebuild" video again from ARD. Finally sent off the CHRA to Midwest Turbo for balance.

Neither cheap nor easy , but a very satisfying turbo for DD service. IMO the 19t is a great solution for a street driven red block. Full details in my build thread.
Thanks all.

Looking for a good street-able stockish daily driver, so I may be a little too fixated on this 19T.
Ive got quotes now for machining+ converting a 19t from my 13T to much more reasonable cost level as ill be doing the rebuild myself. The 13T needs both the compressor housing and the center housing machined for the 19T compressor wheel. I did find a complete NOS 19T from Volvo in Europe for 635€ which was less than the crazy machining, rebuild, balance quotes I received locally.....

That being said, ill probably run the 16T flat flange in the interim once my weld on flat flange adapter shows up from China...anyone ever run a 16T with the old conical flange? I have one of those that fits the HL turbine wheel as well. I’m guessing the outlet restriction cancels out the benefits of upgrading the turbo....

Patrick
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Old 04-15-2021, 02:12 PM   #17
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Which conical housing do you have, 7cm^2 or 6cm^2?
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:04 PM   #18
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Which conical housing do you have, 7cm^2 or 6cm^2?
Looks like my conical and flat flanges say 7 and my angled one says 6.

Patrick
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:10 PM   #19
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7cm conical housing with a 15g/16t seems to provide a pretty meaningful improvement over the 13C. Haven't tried the 6cm myself so can't speak to that.
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Old 04-16-2021, 12:17 AM   #20
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Turbo Power in Shingle Springs, CA used to do the 19t conversions for iPd.
I had them do one a few years ago and still run it. Nice turbo, but there's a lot more to a quick ride than just a big turblow.

For easy and cheap thrills, the best way to go is the conical 15g and a MBC route. Hell, leave the T cam in there for off the line fun. Get some chips if you need more ponies.
Everything after that is waaay more difficult and expensive. If you do a 19t, you'll need injectors, tuning, a bigger exhaust system, etc etc...
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