The excessive TD04 turbo guide ??

For a while now i have researched most of the details of the TD04 turbo family, specifically those that are relevant to redblock usage. I hope this could function as an end all be all guide for TD04 related info.

Compressor type:
Let's start with the most common question, how many T's or G's do i need? Generally you want to keep your turbocharger as small as reliably possible for your power goals, this will generally give you the most responsive setup. I'll give a rough estime of crank hp that the turbine will support maximum at PR = 2.0, estimated HP is crank. (output pressure = 2 times input pressure)

Tiny:
-13C: ~200HP

Small:
-13G: 360cfm ~ 240HP
-13T: 400cfm ~ 265HP

Medium:
-15G: 428cfm ~ 285HP
-16T: 435cfm ~ 290HP

Large:
-18T: 488cfm ~ 325HP
-19T: 500cfm ~ 333HP



Turbine output flange:
There are multiple types of TD04 turbine sizes. The stock turbo uses a TD04H 6cm2 turbine which is a medium sized TD04 turbine. Since the TD04 family is already quite small for our redblocks, it is adviced to directly go to the (relatively) large turbine family, the TD04HL turbines.

The TD04HL turbines comes with 3 different outlet flange types:

- The conical flange is the smaller outlet flange and fits directly onto the stock downpipe. It doesn't flow that well and spool is a bit slower compared to the other outlet flange types. It's nice as a drop-in replacement but don't expect to make big power efficiently with this type of outlet flange. A small or even a medium sized compressor would be a nice match.

- The flat flange is the medium sized outlet flange and mounts easily to the stock manifolds. The original downpipe will need to be converted to this flange type but that is an easy fix. Matches great with any compressor size and probably gives almost all attainable TD04 performance.

- The angled flange is the biggest outlet flange and needs a bit of extra work to fit the stock 90+ manifold. This flange is the best flowing of the three, but won't give that much of a gain compared to the flat flange, especially when running a 2.5" or smaller exhaust. Generally it isn't worth the extra trouble for the performance gain but it is the most common exhaust flange so availability is good compared to the others.



Turbine size: (A/R-ish)
The most common turbine sizes for the TD04HL turbine houses that fit our manifolds are 6cm2 and 7cm2. The size of the turbine can be readen from the serial number that's on the turbine itself or from the shape the turbine has.

- The 6cm2 turbine has got a smaller outer radius and is a bit square-ish on the outside. I would use this one for up to about ~260HP crank or until the EGT's start to approach 900*C. This will be a nice fit for a small or medium sized compressor and will give a quick spool.

- The 7cm2 turbine has got a bigger outer radius and is more rounded on the outside. This one obviously flows better than the 6cm2 housing and is a nice match for the large compressors. It spools a bit slower than the 6cm2 housing but flows better up top.

The turbine size is NOT dependent on the opening size of the turbine input flange that meets with the exhaust manifold. Let's scroll into the next section to give some clarity about that subject.



Turbine input flange:
Now comes a, in my opinion, somewhat overlooked part of choosing the right turbo. Exhaust gas velocity and a smooth transition from the collector to the turbine is key for maximum responsiveness. There are at least two different turbine input flange types for the Volvo TD04HL turbo's:



- When using a 90+ manifold, you want to have the input flange with the smaller opening. This opening fits nicely to the opening of the manifold. Porting of either the turbine or manifold is not adviced since this will unneccessarily reduce the exhaust gas flow velocity without any gain on a TD04. The stock exhaust collector has got a free flowing port with a surface area of about 15cm2. The largest turbine area is 7cm2, which is restricted in flow as well by the turbine. The wastegate port generally has a free flow opening of around 3cm2. Well, you see where this is going... More than 15cm2 is just not needed to feed the TD04HL and will just kill the gas velocity by creating an expansion chamber thus reducing responsiveness.

- When using an old-style manifold, you want to have the input flange with the large opening since the "collector" opening is quite large.



With a bit of experience:

ipdown said:

I know this is old thread.. but. Ported manifold gain is slower spool.
What makes real difference was post turbo. Note - that is on 2.0 liter engine.
I tried 19t with 7cm2 conical housing (cast nr. 89-11800 7) - awful response and awful overall.
Then it was full 3" exhaust with heavily ported both manifold and 7cm2 flat flange housing (115 89 11810 7) - a lot better, but still slow response. Full boost hit at ~3200 and boost rise was kinda slow.
Then it was unported manifold and unported 7cm2 (115 89 11810 7) flat flange housing - full boost at 2800, hit much harder, boost rise faster, felt even better.
Finally I settled with unported manifold and 6cm2 (115 89 11710 6) flat flange housing - the car is a blast, response is as with stock 13c if not better.

Test was made with A and T cams. I finally stick with T cam. A cam wakes above 3k RPM, but
low down feels anemic. Again, this is daily driver and I don't care much about high top end, altough the car makes good 220 whp. With T cam and unported manifold and small 6cm flat flange housing I have a nice torque curve all over the place.

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This is my take on understanding all the turbo talk, i hope this helps with finding the right turbo setup.

Thanks, this is amazing reference! This might be worth pinning in my opinion

Great info, mods please make this a sticky!

265hp on 13t? I'd say you're pushing it at that point

Thank you for the appreciation of this guide. The horsepower numbers are based on the compressor maps and a HP = CFM/1.5 calculation. The 13T numbers seem to be a bit high, especially when it's considered that the G wheels flow more than the T wheels at the same size number. And the 19T numbers seem to be a bit low, i can change them if anyone has better numbers on this.

I'd think the compressor maps are relative to the motor too...ours would be hard pressed to put 265hp out on a 13x id think

Hi

nice write

i drive stock standard 940 FK. low pressure turbo. 13C turbocharger. i think low pressure version power just 135bhp and 230nm. Good for city driving, stop-go traffic

but asthmatic on highways

i have Rica ignition and fuel chips and Hallman manual boost controller. Didn't fit them yet

Still searching for better turbocharger. Im not interested with big bhp n big torque. Realistically to preserve reliability, with 23 yrs old car, 240,000km odometer, i think 200bhp and 280nm just nice for highways.

15G turbo (from 850-T5) is very hard to get now. This 15G is nice balance power from low to mid range rpm.

12T , 14T and 13G got plenty. Do u know guys 12T, 14T and 13G CFM
flows ?

As for exhaust system, is it okay if i use 3" turbo downpipe and cat back use original size 2.2" pipe ... and end up with 2.5" S flow muffler?

im worry by using 13C and up power to 180-200 bhp, the turbine side and EGT easily get hot

Wilford Brimley said:

265hp on 13t? I'd say you're pushing it at that point

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Dyno'd roughly 300 crank on an b5254t with one of these, Should be possible. Definitely not a very durable combo though.

pathfinder said:

...

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I have a 1997 940 with a 16T set to a max. of 0,9bar boost.
Along with that turbo, I have a KL Racing Intercooler, which made an even bigger improvement than the actual turbo swap.
I use chips from "redblockpowered" on here.
Stock exhaust system.

I am very happy with the power it currently has and it's more than enough for every kind of daily use.
I rarely use max boost / full throttle, only when overtaking etc.
If I need to estimate, I would say I currently have around 30hp more than stock, so something between 190-200.

I also wasn't able to find a 16T turbo locally so I bought one from on here and even with the international shipping from US to Austria, it was considerably cheaper than finding one around here (or in the countries around me).
Just a thought for you, you can make a post in the "wanted" section.

pathfinder said:

Hi

nice write

i drive stock standard 940 FK. low pressure turbo. 13C turbocharger. i think low pressure version power just 135bhp and 230nm. Good for city driving, stop-go traffic

but asthmatic on highways

i have Rica ignition and fuel chips and Hallman manual boost controller. Didn't fit them yet

Still searching for better turbocharger. Im not interested with big bhp n big torque. Realistically to preserve reliability, with 23 yrs old car, 240,000km odometer, i think 200bhp and 280nm just nice for highways.

15G turbo (from 850-T5) is very hard to get now. This 15G is nice balance power from low to mid range rpm.

12T , 14T and 13G got plenty. Do u know guys 12T, 14T and 13G CFM
flows ?

As for exhaust system, is it okay if i use 3" turbo downpipe and cat back use original size 2.2" pipe ... and end up with 2.5" S flow muffler?

Click to expand...

Hi, do you live in the Netherlands?

I have ported my 13c and done the cylinder inlet and outlet extensively too.
Wasted spark, 3 inch exhaust together with 3 inch downpipe, chipped ECU and EZK (bla bla chips) and I can tell you that it's a very fast package especially when standing for traffic lights, that 13c spools like hell and that is what you want imho, humiliating the Honda's etc.

I've got a completely ported 15G too but I'm not sure if I'll put it in cuz the 13c combination is so fast from scratch

Bottomline is when and where are you gonna drive plus 150km? Accellerating fast is much more fun =P

Nice write up, one of my best dd combo was 15g, Vcam, 3inch ex, 90plus manifold, NPR ic, 650cc inj on E85. Was my daily and man was it fun to drive with 5 speed. I kinda wish I just left it alone but just couldnt. lol

I am in the process of a +T on my auto 1994 940. I was told by a local Volvo/turbo rebuild guy that I should upgrade my compressor (15g) during my rebuild as the 13c just aren't good. Is this still worth doing on an automatic car with such high compression? I don't want to boost the car so much it breaks just want a fun project that I can keep upgrading slowly with time.

Rat Dangerous said:

I am in the process of a +T on my auto 1994 940. I was told by a local Volvo/turbo rebuild guy that I should upgrade my compressor (15g) during my rebuild as the 13c just aren't good. Is this still worth doing on an automatic car with such high compression? I don't want to boost the car so much it breaks just want a fun project that I can keep upgrading slowly with time.

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mine was a 87 +t with a 19t and it was fun until it blew up stay around 8-10 psi she'll be mint. not like me who had a couple months of 28+psi and bad ignition timing

Here are a few more tidbits of TD04 info I came across in my research/messing with them that weren't covered here:

* The number in 13c/13t/15g/16t etc are not an arbitrary number but exactly correlates to the volume air flow at which the maximum efficiency of the compressor is at a pressure ratio of 2.0. IE 13C has maximum efficiency at 2 bar of 0.13m^3 per second airflow. 19T flows 0.19m^3/S at peak efficiency at the same pressure ratio.

* The compressor letter designation is related to wheel design. B/C has single size blades and has a flat back. T have smaller "splitter" blades and use a "super back" wheel design. G have splitter blades but could be either flat or superback? Not sure. Would be very interested to know the design difference between the G and T.

* Superback is a tapered design on the back of the wheel. Rebuild kits for superback and flat back wheels differ. The superback has a different compressor side oil shield setup. (sorry not sure the technical term)



* CHRA housings differ related to compressor wheel exducer sizes. If you want a different size wheel you need a matching CHRA housing. May be obvious but I wasn't aware of this. Coolant port locations may differ by housing as well.

* 13C 6cm conical turbine housings as mentioned should flow less, but what wasn't mentioned is how small the wastegate hole on this housing is versus the angle housings. I measured my conical 6cm housing with a 18mm diameter hole while the 6cm angle housing has a 28mm diameter hole. I had a massive boost creep issue with my 13c and porting out the wastegate hole eradicated the issue. There is a ton of meat there, don't be shy. I got mine to ~25mm diameter also with a much better, more direct path out.

Here are some pix. Before:

After:


* There also exist 8.5cm exhaust housings for TD04HL used on various diesel engines. They seem to have T25 inlets though but might be worth playing with with an adapter or J-pipe.

esmth said:

Here are a few more tidbits of TD04 info I came across in my research/messing with them that weren't covered here:

* The number in 13c/13t/15g/16t etc are not an arbitrary number but exactly correlates to the volume air flow at which the maximum efficiency of the compressor is at a pressure ratio of 2.0. IE 13C has maximum efficiency at 2 bar of 0.13m^3 per second airflow. 19T flows 0.19m^3/S at peak efficiency at the same pressure ratio.

* The compressor letter designation is related to wheel design. B/C has single size blades and has a flat back. T have smaller "splitter" blades and use a "super back" wheel design. G have splitter blades but could be either flat or superback? Not sure. Would be very interested to know the design difference between the G and T.

* Superback is a tapered design on the back of the wheel. Rebuild kits for superback and flat back wheels differ. The superback has a different compressor side oil shield setup. (sorry not sure the technical term)
View attachment 26435View attachment 26436


* CHRA housings differ related to compressor wheel exducer sizes. If you want a different size wheel you need a matching CHRA housing. May be obvious but I wasn't aware of this. Coolant port locations may differ by housing as well.

* 13C 6cm conical turbine housings as mentioned should flow less, but what wasn't mentioned is how small the wastegate hole on this housing is versus the angle housings. I measured my conical 6cm housing with a 18mm diameter hole while the 6cm angle housing has a 28mm diameter hole. I had a massive boost creep issue with my 13c and porting out the wastegate hole eradicated the issue. There is a ton of meat there, don't be shy. I got mine to ~25mm diameter also with a much better, more direct path out.

Here are some pix. Before:

After:


* There also exist 8.5cm exhaust housings for TD04HL used on various diesel engines. They seem to have T25 inlets though but might be worth playing with with an adapter or J-pipe.

Click to expand...

This is a good addition, i'll try to add it to the guide. It's in need of an update anyway since it's missing some info and some things can be explained a bit better.