home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2021, 06:23 PM   #26
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

I second/third/fourth the idea that the timing (valve or spark) is off and you need to redo the belt alignment. I've run an H cam for years on my 242. The lift and lobe ramps are pretty aggressive, so it induces a LOT more strain on the timing belt system. It doesn't surprise me that you sheared the roll pin. I doubt that you bent a valve, but its possible and worth checking.

Overall, I would question the cam choice on a (relatively speaking) low compression motor. It will have a nice lope to it however due to the overlap (mine does). Mine is in a high compression (almost 11:1) b23. I also run a Stahl header. I'd be interested in knowing how well the LH2.2 does with the cam. LH2 is reasonably civilized..
__________________
Chris
www.yv1a.com
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 02:56 PM   #27
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

man do i hope someones still active on this. Okay, I have tried to set the timing belt but there is a mark for 20, 10, and 0 on the crank pulley. how do i know which to set it to? also i have taken the dist cap, rotor, and dust cover off and cannot find the timing mark. there was a small metal cap underneath all of that. do i have to take that out too? the rotor was pointing to the fourth plug wire at tdc if that is any help.

i appreciate all of you guys helping me out, i apologize if this has been a little bit painful but if it isnt clear already im very new to working on cars
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 02:59 PM   #28
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

also how do i set the dist rotor? i haven't been able to find anything about it and i dont want to try to muscle it and break something
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 03:34 PM   #29
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

TDC is 0 degrees. The distributor rotor should be pointing at the thermostat housing. If you take the dust cover off the distributor. You will see the mark for no.1 firing there on the metal rim. The rotor is just pressed onto the shaft. Sometimes they are really stuck. You can wedge two screwdrivers under the edge of the rotor and pry up evenly to pop it up and off.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration.

1993 245 Classic, 435k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 03:51 PM   #30
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

I can get the red cap, rotor, and dust cover off no problem but i dont see the no.1 mark anywhere. i linked a teardown of a dist, ive gotten the ones labelled 7, 8, and 9 off but the thing underneath of that (5 and 6) is still in there, do i need to take that out and is that what you were talking about with two screwdrivers or were you just talking about the rotor?


https://vp-autoparts.se/bilder/artik...501050460l.jpg
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 03:54 PM   #31
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
TDC is 0 degrees. The distributor rotor should be pointing at the thermostat housing. If you take the dust cover off the distributor. You will see the mark for no.1 firing there on the metal rim. The rotor is just pressed onto the shaft. Sometimes they are really stuck. You can wedge two screwdrivers under the edge of the rotor and pry up evenly to pop it up and off.

I wouldn't trust the 0 degree mark without verifying TDC with a pencil in the spark plug hole, an ancient harmonic balancer could give a false reading. OP pull #1 spark plug, set the crank pulley to 0 and make sure the cam pulley is on its mark, then stick a pencil in the spark plug hole, you should be able to feel the top of the piston. Rock the crank pulley back and forth to make sure the piston is at the top of its stroke. If that doesn't happen you may have a bad harmonic balancer. If that all checks out it's time to look and make sure the rotor is pointed at the mark in the edge of the distributor housing just past where #1 spark plug wire is in the cap. If that's not right you can follow ZVOLV procedure to remove and reset its position. If you can't make that work you might have to take the belt loose so you can turn the auxiliary shaft to the correct point. Once you think you have everything set and the belt tensioned, turn the motor over clockwise so 2x on the crank pulley which equals one time around on the cam pulley and make sure your marks are still lined up. I usually try to start the motor before putting all the other belts back on in case I have to move one of the pulleys a notch one way or other. You'll know if it's right or not with a couple blips of the gas pedal, if it's not right it may run but really poorly and won't rev up. Do not run the engine for more than 10-15 seconds without the water pump belt installed.

Edit-
Once you have all the belts on and the engine running, warm it up and use a timing light to set the timing to 12-14 degrees before top dead center at those timing marks by the crank pulley. It's helpful to mark that notch in the pulley with a white crayon or white out. If the timing mark is inconsistent then you may have a slipping harmonic balance.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
I'm shocked someone actually took me seriously.

Last edited by VB242; 02-05-2021 at 04:15 PM..
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 03:56 PM   #32
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tog244 View Post
I can get the red cap, rotor, and dust cover off no problem but i dont see the no.1 mark anywhere. i linked a teardown of a dist, ive gotten the ones labelled 7, 8, and 9 off but the thing underneath of that (5 and 6) is still in there, do i need to take that out and is that what you were talking about with two screwdrivers or were you just talking about the rotor?


https://vp-autoparts.se/bilder/artik...501050460l.jpg
#1 is where the spark plug wire that goes to number 1 spark plug attaches to the cap.

Last edited by VB242; 02-05-2021 at 04:16 PM..
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 04:30 PM   #33
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

okay stuck a plastic straw in spark plug hole 1 at tdc and rocked it back and forth, it seems to be tdc. can i now take the belt off of the cam gear and freely spin the rotor to its position? nobody really explained clearly how to set the dist so thats what im inferring. i still do not know where the dist tdc mark is, i have run my fingernail around the rim of the dist cup several times and cannot feel or see anything.

im not sure what you mean exactly on your edit but im gonna not worry about it until i get it running
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 04:43 PM   #34
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Now that the engine is at TDC for cylinder #1:
Verify that the aux shaft pulley is timed correctly: Dot on pulley to bump/notch on the timing cover.
Verify that the cam gear is timed correctly: Same as above, just different marks.
If they are off, pull the timing belt and align as necessary.

Now check the distributor: Is the rotor pointing to the where the #1 spark plug wire goes onto the cap?
If not, loosen the distributor hold down bolt and twist the distributor body. If that doesn't work, you'll have to remove the distributor and move the gear 1-tooth and reinsert. Double check, repeat as needed.
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 04:44 PM   #35
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tog244 View Post
okay stuck a plastic straw in spark plug hole 1 at tdc and rocked it back and forth, it seems to be tdc. can i now take the belt off of the cam gear and freely spin the rotor to its position? nobody really explained clearly how to set the dist so thats what im inferring. i still do not know where the dist tdc mark is, i have run my fingernail around the rim of the dist cup several times and cannot feel or see anything.

im not sure what you mean exactly on your edit but im gonna not worry about it until i get it running
It should be about 12 degrees past the number one spark plug wire. Yes you can reposition the rotor by loosening/ taking the belt off but beware it's easy to upset the other timing marks with the belt loose.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 04:52 PM   #36
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

okay the aux gear is not lined up. i was told not to worry about that as i can just reset the dist and not worry about that, the cam and crank are both at tdc and i just need to align the dist. how the hell do i accurately measure 12 degrees past the first plug wire.

all i need at this point as far as i know is how to set the distributor to tdc without just messing with the aux gear because the timing mark on that is a pain to get to. is there a way to do this?
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 05:09 PM   #37
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tog244 View Post
okay the aux gear is not lined up. i was told not to worry about that as i can just reset the dist and not worry about that, the cam and crank are both at tdc and i just need to align the dist. how the hell do i accurately measure 12 degrees past the first plug wire.

all i need at this point as far as i know is how to set the distributor to tdc without just messing with the aux gear because the timing mark on that is a pain to get to. is there a way to do this?
Just get it pointed at number 1 spark plug wire. You can fine tune it when you set the timing with a timing light. You have to remove the pinch bolt holding the distributor down and pull the distributor all the way out and reposition it.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 05:19 PM   #38
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

wheres the pinch bolt?
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 05:26 PM   #39
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

The bolt is on the distributor flange between the distributor and block.

hiperfauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 06:48 PM   #40
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Is this an LH2.2 or LH2.4 car?
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 11:13 PM   #41
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

2.2
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 03:16 AM   #42
J_Jones
Board Member
 
J_Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lincolnton, NC
Default

Where are you located? I bet there is someone close that may be able to lend a hand.
J_Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 04:41 AM   #43
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

OP, you really, really need to buy yourself a Bentley Bible. I think that would go a long way to answering a lot of your questions without having us hate on you or waiting on us to guide you though this troubleshooting process while you stare frustratedly at the car. With a manual, a set of appropriate (relatively basic) hand tools, a noid test light and some gumption, you can fix just about anything on these cars.

https://www.amazon.com/Volvo-Service...2599927&sr=8-1

overall:
1. Set the motor to top dead center.
2. Verify your cam and distributor drive gear are in the right position.
3. Verify that your distributor rotor is pointed at #1 plug wire.
4. Verify that your plug wires are on the correct plugs and that you have the right firing order.
5. Crank the engine and check spark.
6. Check that you have fuel (pumps running, lines are pressurized).

There are a variety of things that will affect spark and fuel. Nothing will fix you putting it together wrong.

somewhere along the way you will find out what is wrong.

If it ran before you replaced the timing belt, its probably something you did wrong when reassembling it - but not all the time.

A lot of this is covered in the Bentley manual. You can also invest in the modestly more comprehensive green books (factory service manuals), but the Bentley manual will get you there the vast majority of the time. I would bet pretty much every person on this board owns a Bentley book (or two or three) and us longer term idiots have usually also accumulated a set of green books (or electronic copies) as well along the way. For a newb, just buy the Bentley book.
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 07:43 AM   #44
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quillc View Post
OP, you really, really need to buy yourself a Bentley Bible. I think that would go a long way to answering a lot of your questions without having us hate on you or waiting on us to guide you though this troubleshooting process while you stare frustratedly at the car. With a manual, a set of appropriate (relatively basic) hand tools, a noid test light and some gumption, you can fix just about anything on these cars.

https://www.amazon.com/Volvo-Service...2599927&sr=8-1

overall:
1. Set the motor to top dead center.
2. Verify your cam and distributor drive gear are in the right position.
3. Verify that your distributor rotor is pointed at #1 plug wire.
4. Verify that your plug wires are on the correct plugs and that you have the right firing order.
5. Crank the engine and check spark.
6. Check that you have fuel (pumps running, lines are pressurized).

There are a variety of things that will affect spark and fuel. Nothing will fix you putting it together wrong.

somewhere along the way you will find out what is wrong.

If it ran before you replaced the timing belt, its probably something you did wrong when reassembling it - but not all the time.

A lot of this is covered in the Bentley manual. You can also invest in the modestly more comprehensive green books (factory service manuals), but the Bentley manual will get you there the vast majority of the time. I would bet pretty much every person on this board owns a Bentley book (or two or three) and us longer term idiots have usually also accumulated a set of green books (or electronic copies) as well along the way. For a newb, just buy the Bentley book.
I get by with a Haynes manual even, mostly have it for torque specs through. I think I've had almost every fastener loose on the car at one point or another.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 10:09 AM   #45
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

i agree, those both sound like very sound investments. are there any places online that i can view the haynes or bentley for free or should i just buy the books? also i am located in virginia, a couple hours away from richmond but i dont want to bother anyone to come out and it isnt very fun to work on cars without a garage in february
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 03:52 PM   #46
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

Both manuals are available online. Haynes:https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...anual&_sacat=0
Bentley:https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+haynes+manual

Bentley is more $$ but is a factory service manual level production. Haynes is a very good DIY get started manual. Lots of great info in both. You used to be able to buy the haynes on a dvd but I don't know if that is available anymore. You can also get the archived Volvo service manuals on ozvolvo.org under the archives.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 05:07 PM   #47
Otto Mattik
board member
 
Otto Mattik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Upper Midwest more or less
Default

There are a some good photos with graphics in this older thread that might help illustrate things. Adjusting the timing is not complicated, you can do that any time after you figure out the issue.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...=308674&page=2

__________________
Desperate need of elf assistant for interior work - Cash/Beer option $


Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=323689
Otto Mattik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 06:52 PM   #48
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

finally got everything timed and running, thank you all so much. what i was asking is are there any online versions of the books as pdf's that i can use for free or is the best option just to buy them?
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2021, 02:31 AM   #49
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tog244 View Post
finally got everything timed and running, thank you all so much. what i was asking is are there any online versions of the books as pdf's that i can use for free or is the best option just to buy them?
Greenbooks here: https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=331967 With the demise of Kjet.org, If I find a greenbook that I don't have I'll download a local copy before they disappear.

Personally, I'm a fan of hard copy for manuals. For me, they just work better. I'm 50 this year, so grew up pre-internet and value paper as a result. Your experience may vary. For the Bentley manuals, I'll often write notes on the margins that are help to me in the future. For the few pdf manuals that I do have, I actually have a cheap tablet that I dump them on for shop use or will burn a tree and put a binder together if its something that I use more than occasionally.
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2021, 11:35 PM   #50
tog244
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default

awesome, good advice. i agree a paper copy would be better but if i could find it for free thatd be best. i figured it was worth asking about
tog244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.