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New Valve Springs?

Yep. The installed height is pretty low, and there are some large cams that are used.
You can change installed height with different retainers as well, to an extent.

Makes sense. Well, I should get my spring compressor in today, so I can check what my stockers look like, and figure out what size they are.

At this point, if they need replaced, I might just go for the BTR springs and Raptor retainers. Pretty similar in price to the Volvo 29mm service kit, but they allow for ample headroom for a turbo or a larger cam in the future.
 
I got the opportunity to pull a valve spring. They are the 25.9mm springs as hiperfauto guessed. I also took a measurement of the free height, which was 43.80mm. From factory, they are supposed to be 44.50mm.

What do you guys think? For 250-300k miles it's not near as bad as I thought. I don't know what it means for a valve spring's height to be .7mm under spec. Is it time to change them out?
 
Yep. The installed height is pretty low, and there are some large cams that are used.
You can change installed height with different retainers as well, to an extent.

culberro, I found an old thread which talked about the VS1632 Ford 2v 4.6 springs used in the 16v heads. Looking over the specs, they might work as an inexpensive replacement for my springs?
 
culberro, I found an old thread which talked about the VS1632 Ford 2v 4.6 springs used in the 16v heads. Looking over the specs, they might work as an inexpensive replacement for my springs?

Doesn't look like they're available any more, or at least for the time being. The Sealed Power number on the 32v is VS1664, same with that. I also looked at CompCams 909 as a kind of straight replacement, it's close but I'm not in love with it. You could look at Swedish sites to see what you might be able to get from them?
 
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Doesn't look like they're available any more, or at least for the time being. The Sealed Power number on the 32v is VS1664, same with that. I also looked at CompCams 909 as a kind of straight replacement, it's close but I'm not in love with it. You could look at Swedish sites to see what you might be able to get from them?

I wonder what's made them unavailable, at least for the 2v. Perhaps low demand. Anyway, Melling makes the 2v style VS1268, and they are only $1.97 per on RockAuto. They're supposedly 26mm all the way through with specs that might handle everything just fine? Could be wrong, though. :wtf:
 
Sort of related question, can old valve springs be tested in any way? If they have the same measured rates as they should have new, could they be OK to reuse?

Free length? Whatever happened to using a valve spring pressure tester?

Free length is a reasonable way to check that's pretty simple and only requires a ruler or a pair of calipers.

Since the steel wire doesn't get stiffer or softer as it gets older (Young's modulus stays the same). The free length slowly decreases in height, which decreases the spring force at a given installed height.

How many people have a valve spring testing tool and get it calibrated regularly?
Almost every engine machine shop (every one I have been in) has a spring checker. The important thing is it measures height and pressure.
Yes, a free height check is good, and you can shim old springs until you get close to bind.
A spring change mid-season is very popular in "crate motor" classes in circle-track racing.

Also, the earlier assumption the bigger springs are stiffer needs to be clarified:
For a given wire diameter and coil count, a larger spring diameter will give a softer spring. To make the bigger springs stiffer they need bigger wire or fewer coils.
The smaller Volvo B21/23/230 springs that I have tested were almost identical in rate when compared to the big Volvo B valve springs, and were lighter, with a lighter retainer, so I use those.

I have been interested in beehives for a long time but never pulled the trigger.
I had the same questions about cost as posted earlier in this thread.
 
Almost every engine machine shop (every one I have been in) has a spring checker. The important thing is it measures height and pressure.
Yes, a free height check is good, and you can shim old springs until you get close to bind.
A spring change mid-season is very popular in "crate motor" classes in circle-track racing.

Also, the earlier assumption the bigger springs are stiffer needs to be clarified:
For a given wire diameter and coil count, a larger spring diameter will give a softer spring. To make the bigger springs stiffer they need bigger wire or fewer coils.
The smaller Volvo B21/23/230 springs that I have tested were almost identical in rate when compared to the big Volvo B valve springs, and were lighter, with a lighter retainer, so I use those.

I have been interested in beehives for a long time but never pulled the trigger.
I had the same questions about cost as posted earlier in this thread.

Do circle racers really put that much wear on valve springs in such short time?? That's incredible.

Comp makes spring shims in various sizes. They have 1.250 OD, .030" shim that would bring my springs back to the factory spec. (P/N 4742-16) $12 for the set of 16.

Do shims just sit in between the retainer and spring, or on top of the seat?
 
Do circle racers really put that much wear on valve springs in such short time?? That's incredible.

Comp makes spring shims in various sizes. They have 1.250 OD, .030" shim that would bring my springs back to the factory spec. (P/N 4742-16) $12 for the set of 16.

Do shims just sit in between the retainer and spring, or on top of the seat?

Shims go under the spring.
 
culberro, I found an old thread which talked about the VS1632 Ford 2v 4.6 springs used in the 16v heads. Looking over the specs, they might work as an inexpensive replacement for my springs?


Melling makes a near direct replacement to the VS1632.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinf...jc3/hXVjuV3lvp0sdkoHMFC13Z1jwDmcS+WjgnAxbj+JV

Doesn't look like they're available any more, or at least for the time being. The Sealed Power number on the 32v is VS1664, same with that. I also looked at CompCams 909 as a kind of straight replacement, it's close but I'm not in love with it. You could look at Swedish sites to see what you might be able to get from them?


Of note, the Sealed Power (or the Melling) springs are not a beehive. I'm not sure where/when they got labeled that. But I've had numerous people mention this to me.
The PAC "Beehives" that commonly get used on 8vs are the least beehive spring I've ever seen.

I'll come back and edit this post with some spring force values for stock and the Melling/Sealed Power springs. I just have to find them.
 
@culberro I see some springs are listed as beehive, and some as conical. Can you shed light on what the difference might be, beyond just the shape?

The only place I ever found info on the stock Ford spring was some Mustang forum that listed it at 65lbs@1.440", rate 250.
 
@culberro I see some springs are listed as beehive, and some as conical. Can you shed light on what the difference might be, beyond just the shape?

The only place I ever found info on the stock Ford spring was some Mustang forum that listed it at 65lbs@1.440", rate 250.

Beehive and conical springs accomplish the same thing: increasing spring frequency as the spring is compressed and an increasing spring rate, while offering a lighter package (specifically retainer).
Beehives are finicky to install into an application because they have a taller block/bind height than a comparable conventional spring for a given diameter/installed height/seat force.
Conical springs by design allow for a shorter block/bind height since the wire can nest inside the previous coils, are lighter than a comparable beehive, and they can use a smaller retainer than a comparable beehive.

Edit: The conical spring is just the next "evolution" of single valve spring. I say "evolution" because they've been in use since the early 1900s.
 
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I'm thinking it's not worth the upgraded springs at this time. I don't need them. If the 4.6 2v springs are an acceptable OE replacement, that may be the best all around option. Otherwise, I think shims to restore free height may be my best bet. Either will be plenty for my modest A cam.

RockAuto has specs listed underneath the VS1632. Their phrasing is a bit different I think.
 
I'm thinking it's not worth the upgraded springs at this time. I don't need them. If the 4.6 2v springs are an acceptable OE replacement, that may be the best all around option. Otherwise, I think shims to restore free height may be my best bet. Either will be plenty for my modest A cam.

Exactly. No ROI with special springs. A total waste of your money.
 
I'm thinking it's not worth the upgraded springs at this time. I don't need them. If the 4.6 2v springs are an acceptable OE replacement, that may be the best all around option. Otherwise, I think shims to restore free height may be my best bet. Either will be plenty for my modest A cam.

RockAuto has specs listed underneath the VS1632. Their phrasing is a bit different I think.

Just make sure that whatever springs you choose have sufficient clearance at full lift.
The beehive 8v setup is only good enough for a mild cam upgrade @ ~12.5mm of lift.

Exactly. No ROI with special springs. A total waste of your money.

Truly this. On a mild cam (IPD or anything around 12mm of lift), good stock springs can handle around 7k rpm or slightly more. Easy improvement over stock: shim the springs so they only have 40 thou of bind clearance.
 
The 405 head I am using was built with the stock large springs. I use a enem V15 with them and as Culberro mentions they rev to 7k making power all the way. I love it.
 
Does anyone know of a "Dummy's guide on shimming valve springs?" :lol: I think that it is the cheapest and best choice for my car. It goes in between the seat and spring, but is outer or inner diameter overly critical, or not so much? I'll likely just bring the stock springs back to 45.5mm (.030" shims), as I don't truly anticipate spinning the engine higher than 5k at any time. Even 5k is a bit high for my slush box AW70...
 
Does anyone know of a "Dummy's guide on shimming valve springs?" :lol: I think that it is the cheapest and best choice for my car. It goes in between the seat and spring, but is outer or inner diameter overly critical, or not so much? I'll likely just bring the stock springs back to 45.5mm (.030" shims), as I don't truly anticipate spinning the engine higher than 5k at any time. Even 5k is a bit high for my slush box AW70...

What camshaft are you using?
I?m going to say that you can just drop them in there as is and it?ll be just fine.
 
What camshaft are you using?
I?m going to say that you can just drop them in there as is and it?ll be just fine.

Going from "M" to "A." If that's the case, then I'll do that! I'll definitely do some cleaning on the valve train and the accessible part of the head, as its grimy after many miles.
 
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