240 Front speaker removal - '92 245

My new wagon has the Volvo HT 204 speakers still intact. Two quick questions:

1. Can these be removed without removing the door card?

2. What is the max mounting depth for 5.25 speakers in the front doors?

Looking to order something in the next couple of days so I can get everything installed over the Thanksgiving holiday.

1. No, not without breaking the dooor card, need to drill out the rivits
2. It is about 1 3/4 inches. Eclipse are the only good sounding direct fit speaker that fits w/o modifications and can use the orig grills. Pioneers (i.e. cheap) fit but sound terrible.

IIRC the speakers are held in place with rivets. You can check the Crutchfield web site for speaker depth. Will you be trying to reuse the original covers and backing plates?

vvpete said:

1. No, not without breaking the dooor card, need to drill out the rivits
2. It is about 1 3/4 inches. Eclipse are the only good sounding direct fit speaker that fits w/o modifications and can use the orig grills. Pioneers (i.e. cheap) fit but sound terrible.

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Ugh. That's what I was afraid of, thanks.

nel621 said:

IIRC the speakers are held in place with rivets. You can check the Crutchfield web site for speaker depth. Will you be trying to reuse the original covers and backing plates?

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Backing plate = the sort-of-hex spacer? Was hoping to since it would probably give me a little more room to work with, but not required. My second '83 wagon had some 4" Alpines with grills that fit, but I was hoping to go bigger in the new car since I don't have window cranks to worry about. Might have to rig something up.

Once you have the old speakers off you can use small nuts and bolts to hold the new speakers to the old backing plate then reuse the OE covers.

nel621 said:

Once you have the old speakers off you can use small nuts and bolts to hold the new speakers to the old backing plate then reuse the OE covers.

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Thanks :thumbup:

I may just use the original fronts for now, then order something once I get in there and take measurements. The rest can wait I guess.

<a href="http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/hh77/nel6211/?action=view&current=90240speakersandgrille001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh77/nel6211/90240speakersandgrille001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/hh77/nel6211/?action=view&current=90240speakersandgrille002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh77/nel6211/90240speakersandgrille002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a
I need to go bigger.

nel621 said:

I need to go bigger.

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???

OP, no gain in going backwards to put 4" speakers into a car (all pre '90 has 4") that came with 5 1/4", especially when there are several one's that fit perfectly and sound great w/o modifying anything.
As said, get the Eclipse 5 1/4" 3-way, you will not be dissapointed.

Like I said I need to go bigger.

nel, how much clearance is there in between the woofer surround and the speaker grill in your photo? I wonder if you can't shim everything out a little to get some more depth.

Woofer to grill clearance is very close. I don't think it can be shimmed out further. But I do have some clearance behind the speaker. I got these speakers new for free so in they went. Better than the OE ones. When I finally do replace them it will be with 5.25.

vvpete said:

???

OP, no gain in going backwards to put 4" speakers into a car (all pre '90 has 4") that came with 5 1/4", especially when there are several one's that fit perfectly and sound great w/o modifying anything.
As said, get the Eclipse 5 1/4" 3-way, you will not be dissapointed.

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Sound wise yes. You lose some. But convience/troublefree wise,I like the 4'ers better.

I went back to 4"ers using the earlier 4" OEM Grilles & cut the basket off the OEM 4" speakers to use as a speaker mtg plate to use the earlier grilles.

And now, with the 4'ers on the ront door/s, I don't jam my fingers on the 5 1/4" grilles when reaching to grab the door's armrest upright, to close it.

And I don't have the "5 1/4" broken speaker grille rivets" like I used to. I've noticed the 240's 5 1/4" front speaker grille's mtg rivets are notorious for breaking .

And for what I lost going to the 4"ers, I made up for by installing 6x9 5 ways in the rear package tray.

I used Kenwood KFC -1061S 3 way 4'ers. Might be NLA now?

Thanks for the photos.

I haven't noticed any issues with handle clearance with the factory 5.25's, but I've only had the car a week. My previous wagon had manual windows, so I knew there was no option of going bigger there.

In that car, I ran the 4" door speakers and a pair of Polk 6x9's in wedge boxes off the head unit, and a 10" sub off of a bridged 2-channel amp. I could never get the balance right - the 6x9's completely overpowered the fronts, no matter how I adjusted things. In the new wagon, I want to ditch the 6x9's but keep the sub. Which means I need something on the better side in the front doors.

The current plan is 5.25 components in front, something ok in the rear doors, powered by a 4-channel amp. Mono amp for the sub. Assuming I can find a set of components with a shallow enough mounting depth.

You're gong to need to mod the door and or door card and/ or use a speaker mounting spacer in order to mount & to use a high enough RMS 5 1/4 speaker to push it with an amp. Most 4"ers that will fit in the unmodded door and door card, are usually only rated at 20RMS-25 watts RMS. Of course lots depends on amp RMS you're going to push them with too.

To get a higher rated RMS speakr the magnet will be larger , and hit the window mechanism unless you make a spacer to space it away from the window mechanism

Why I elected to just go with 20RMS KW 4"ers up front. I didn't want to mod/cut the door cards up, nor space the speakers out to mount higher RMS speakers in the doors. IOW I wanted to keep a stock appearance. . even tried to keep an OEM appearance in the way I mounted the 6x9s. Looks like it *could* have been OEM, if no one previously knew the 240s never had 6x9s

And 4"ers I tried in the lower rear doors to go with 4"ers in front doors,could barely even be heard by driver/front seat passenger,(they mount too low) thus I went with 6x9s in package tray. I was after "loud listening" anyway...........

I'm running a new Sony HD 4 x 45w head unit powering the two Eclipse 5 1/4 in front and two Alpine 4" in the rear doors and a 100w Phoenix Gold amp powering a pair of 6 1/2" 2-way Omhage I/O speakers in the rear cargo bay of my 245.

Sound is well balance, excellent 60hz low end and briliant high response up front with the Eclipse, which can handle at least 50 RMS watts each.

Everything else I've used up front over the past 30 years of about 10 240 stereo builds sounded like trash and not enough output to make any difference at all by comparison.

I have looked and looked over the years and these are the best, although there was some Dynaudio speakers once offered which some say are better, nla but for a $100/pr they don't require any of the messing around everybody else has done to fit deeper supposedly better speakers in the front doors.
Here they are, but not sure where to find them today. Mine are only 3 yrs old, so they are probably avail somewhere old stock
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-msX9N7OnWgN/p_099SE5000/Eclipse-SE5000.html
BTW, I got NOS Alpine 4" from a marine dealer in FLA for $40/pr since they are the best 4" I've heard and used.

vvpete said:

I'm running a new Sony HD 4 x 45w head unit powering the two Eclipse 5 1/4 in front and two Alpine 4" in the rear doors and a 100w Phoenix Gold amp powering a pair of 6 1/2" 2-way Omhage I/O speakers in the rear cargo bay of my 245.

Sound is well balance, excellent 60hz low end and briliant high response up front with the Eclipse, which can handle at least 50 RMS watts each.

Everything else I've used up front over the past 30 years of about 10 240 stereo builds sounded like trash and not enough output to make any difference at all by comparison.

I have looked and looked over the years and these are the best, although there was some Dynaudio speakers once offered which some say are better, nla but for a $100/pr they don't require any of the messing around everybody else has done to fit deeper supposedly better speakers in the front doors.
Here they are, but not sure where to find them today. Mine are only 3 yrs old, so they are probably avail somewhere old stock
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-msX9N7OnWgN/p_099SE5000/Eclipse-SE5000.html
BTW, I got NOS Alpine 4" from a marine dealer in FLA for $40/pr since they are the best 4" I've heard and used.

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Is that 45 watts *peak power* or 45 watts *RMS power*?

I dare to say your Sony unit is somewhere around 18 watts x 4 RMS. Which isn't bad by the way.

The RMS rating is what the HU is actually putting out continuosly, to all 4 speakers.

The 45 x 4 "peak watts peak power is a very misleading spec used to sell more headunits.

The highest RMS HUs I've seen, thus far, are the Kenwood headunits which most are rated at 22 watts x 4 RMS

The RMS wattage is what you really need to go by............ It is the *most accurate* method of watts rating for a headunit.

My current KW KFC MP538U is rated 22 RMS x 4, as is the new KW KFC X896 Excelon HU I have. I chose them because of all the HUs I looked at, they have the most RMS x 4 power rating

smokeyfan1000 said:

Is that 45 watts *peak power* or 45 watts *RMS power*?

I dare to say your Sony unit is somewhere around 18 watts x 4 RMS. Which isn't bad by the way.

The RMS rating is what the HU is actually putting out continuosly, to all 4 speakers.

The 45 x 4 "peak watts peak power is a very misleading spec used to sell more headunits.

The highest RMS HUs I've seen, thus far, are the Kenwood headunits which most are rated at 22 watts x 4 RMS

The RMS wattage is what you really need to go by............ It is the *most accurate* method of watts rating for a headunit.

My current KW KFC MP538U is rated 22 RMS x 4, as is the new KW KFC X896 Excelon HU I have. I chose them because of all the HUs I looked at, they have the most RMS x 4 power rating

Click to expand...

Quite aware of RMS vs peak, and if you want a discussion on acoustic wave theory.......

The Sony XPLOD HD Digital head unit is 3 mos old and quite nice at 45 watts RMS at 0.08% thd.
I've run the Eclipse directly off the Phoenix Gold amp and even better (that's 100 watts rated at 0.02% thd rms and 95 db sensitivity, not like the bs Crapford Noise-gates equivalents of 100w at 2% thd peak where you get noise at 30% power levels)

I have the 4 yr old Kenwood 22w head unit that came out in a box awaiting install in the '84 and there's a world of difference compared to the Sony. I am actually hearing sounds from these Eclipse that were not there with the Kenwood. Plus power to drive them.

vvpete said:

Quite aware of RMS vs peak, and if you want a discussion on acoustic wave theory.......

The Sony XPLOD HD Digital head unit is 3 mos old and quite nice at 45 watts RMS at 0.08% thd.
I've run the Eclipse directly off the Phoenix Gold amp and even better (that's 100 watts rated at 0.02% thd rms and 95 db sensitivity, not like the bs Crapford Noise-gates equivalents of 100w at 2% thd peak where you get noise at 30% power levels)

I have the 4 yr old Kenwood 22w head unit that came out in a box awaiting install in the '84 and there's a world of difference compared to the Sony. I am actually hearing sounds from these Eclipse that were not there with the Kenwood. Plus power to drive them.

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Got a link to that Sony HU? I haven't seen that one. Would like to see . 45 RMS is pretty good for just a HU