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Old 07-31-2021, 04:36 PM   #651
davran
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Default Tr6 air filter box?

I'm wondering if a Tr6 air filter box would work, as they also used dual zenith stromberg carbs(?).
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:34 PM   #652
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The issue is that there is maaaaaaaaaaybe 2.5"-3" of space between the intake of the rear carb and the brake booster, and where the throttle cable comes out of the firewall is right there, leaving about 0.5" of room for anything that travels back towards the firewall. The cables can't really be bent either, so space is at a premium :(. I used some very tight radius 1.75" pipe to make the filter piping and even that stuff (and it's VERY tight radius...) is 1/8" away from the booster.

An airbox would make it look a lot more OEM, but nothing fits :(.
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:30 AM   #653
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What kind of water pump pulley is that? I don't think I've seen a single row one in the wild.
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Old 08-04-2021, 01:45 PM   #654
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That's a Penta AQ140A pulley, it came with the engine. Not sure if the other Penta engines came that way or not.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:27 PM   #655
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Forgive me if this is evident or already answered, but do 240s normally mount their coils on the shock tower? My 144's coil was up on the firewall.

If so, that's convenient routing for the distributor!
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:17 PM   #656
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Yep, that's the factory spot on a 240 .
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:35 AM   #657
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There's so much chinese in this picture I feel I should be threatening to annex Taiwan.

I got a second clone weber, and a clone DCOE manifold (it actually says FAJS on it), and I'm going to try to fire it up on the stand. The auto flexplate fits with tons of room, and the starter cranks it all over nicely. I got the starter, penta points dizzy, and penta mech pump from a local buddy who is cleaning out his parts hoard, and I'll bolt on the exh manifold/downpipe later today. The wiring is cake (hooray points!) and I've got a bosch blue coil ready to go.

I went through both carbs and measured each jet with some plug gauges, and everything specs out, except the idle jets. They're listed as 55F8, but are closer to 62-63. That's the same on both carbs, purchased months apart, from different vendors. If I get a chance I'm going to fill the bowls with fuel and try cranking it tonight, but we'll see what happens. It's going to be 40*C here today, after the humidity is factored in, and that's just masochistic in a non-AC'd garage.

Last edited by Broke4speed; 08-09-2021 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:31 AM   #658
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super jelly, that looks like it'll be a ton of fun
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Old 08-09-2021, 03:45 PM   #659
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Tomorrow should be the big day, I got the NA manifold and downpipe installed, which will at least kill SOME of the sound and direct any noxious gasses away from me, lol. Having a spare engine is always a great thing .
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Old 08-10-2021, 12:33 PM   #660
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Got it running on the stand after replacing a dead condenser. It still seems...off. It won't idle on it's own, but given I can't get it to operating temp (no cooling system), that's not totally surprising. It's far too loud to run for long so I can't do much tweaking without getting the neighbourhood on my case, lol.
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Old 08-10-2021, 02:29 PM   #661
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Neat! I've ordered up a set of FAJS DCOE carbs of my own... and a manifold that I think is pretty much the same as yours. Delivery is supposed to be in September so I guess I have time to ogle other people's DCOE setups.

Where are you getting vacuum from the brake booster? I'm hoping there's a fitting or at least a hole drilled in one of the runners or something.
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Old 08-10-2021, 04:25 PM   #662
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For the moment there's nothing. I'm going to have to tap one of the runners for the booster because it doesn't come with a port. After my vacation at the end of the month (going semi-offline for a full week...BLISS!) I will probably just swap the whole shebang on and work out the bugs with it on the car. I want to take my volvo on this vacation, which is why I need to keep it in one piece right now, lol.

DEFINITELY check the floats on the FAJS carbs. One of mine was foam and the other one was brass...which is not suitable for the modern 'weber' cover design. The brass float standoffs are a different height, and carbs that use those were manufactured in the 60s and 70s. I'd recommend setting them to a bit more than stock weber specs, because I set mine at 12mm and the fuel would gush out of the auxiliaries. You might need to play with the level to get it set properly for your car.

OH! One more thing, for anyone interested in using the mech fuel pump like I am. The Penta one I've got on my spare engine has a unique fuel outlet fitting size. The inlet is 1/8 NPT, but the outlet is 7/16-24, since the penta engines use hard lines for fuel delivery to the carb(s). I had to order a 7/16-24-to-AN6 adapter, and then an AN6-to-5/16 barb fitting in order to get it to integrate with proper-sized fuel line. The stock Penta hard outlet line is 3/16 or 1/4.

[Edit to the edit] Last thing. The bolt-on Penta distributor cap/rotor is extremely expensive, and in my recent experience...crap. The electrode post in the center of the cap is not spring loaded, so as it wears out, the gap between rotor and cap increases. I swapped in a standard B21A cap and held it in place with zipties (yes...ghetto) since it's exactly the same as the bolt-on cap but 1/10th the price. Worked like a charm, and I bet it could be fastened down better with a few minutes of designing and a 3D printer. All it would need is a retaining ring with ears on it to accomodate the screws.

Last edited by Broke4speed; 08-10-2021 at 04:40 PM..
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Old 08-13-2021, 06:32 PM   #663
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For the (luckily) uninitiated...these are 'temperature compensators' from a set of Zenith Strombergs. Their function is to slowly open as the temperature rises, allowing more air to bypass the throttle plates. This leans the mixture out, without the driver knowing...unless they happen to have a wideband. I would have known though, due to the PINGING

It's an emissions thing, and I don't want them to function. Rather than 'adjust' them into non-function (which IMO doesn't really work) like people have done...I got a spare set, removed the guts, tapped the piston bore for an M10 bolt, and dipped the bolt in JBWeld before threading it in. Now there's NO way air can get around the throttle plates .

When I removed the existing TCs, I found that they were OPEN already due to the ambient air temps in my garage. This is crap, because the engine bay gets a lot hotter than that, so I'm glad they now longer work. The car fires up more reliably now, because the fuel/air mixture is 100% consistent.
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Old 08-15-2021, 08:08 PM   #664
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Results of the modified temperature compensators: Success. The AFRs are much more repeatable now, and each drive is the same as the last. I wouldn't say these 2A needles are the best option for a non-adjustable jet version of these carbs, but it still gets decent mileage so I can't complain. 20w50 oil in the dashpots DEFINITELY helps perk up the snap acceleration.

...and then the pivot pin at the shifter fell out, leaving me in 4th gear. It would have been OD but when the pin launched itself to the road, it yerked the ground wire off the solenoid. I was able to jam a bolt through the pivot pin hole and limp home, so today I made a nice new pin out of a shouldered M12 bolt. The area that contacts the brass bushings (already upgraded, thanfully) is smooth, but there are enough threads for a blue-locktite'd nut. Then I made a new set screw out of an M8 bolt with a 12mm head but sanding the tip into a point and blue-locktite'd that into place. Now there's TWO attachment methods so it should NOT come apart again.
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Old 08-19-2021, 09:40 PM   #665
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While cranking an engine on a stand, with the plugs out, DO NOT forget that your hand is on the timing belt. I can confirm that once your fingertip goes BETWEEN the belt and the IM shaft gear, you're going to need a LOT of stitches...if you've managed to gather all the finger chunks. Also, the nail is 100% purple, so I don't expect it to last very long.

This is the bandage put on by the triage nurse before I got the stitches. The side you can't see is saturated with blood after only 5 min. The fun part was running it under water for 15 minutes to clean out the crud from the garage rag I used to cover it before going to the hospital.

Cars are fun...aren't they?
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Old 08-19-2021, 11:19 PM   #666
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Take care of yourself B4

Reminds me of breaking my right hand and the nurse said can you get home?

I said I dunno I drive a manual - she replied well then we can’t let you leave. I said no jk then proceeded to drive home with my left hand on the wheel/shifter

Honesty is overrated but injuries are forever. Hope you recover quickly.
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Old 08-20-2021, 03:22 AM   #667
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Ouuuuuch
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Old 08-20-2021, 10:25 AM   #668
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Take care of yourself B4

Reminds me of breaking my right hand and the nurse said can you get home?

I said I dunno I drive a manual - she replied well then we can’t let you leave. I said no jk then proceeded to drive home with my left hand on the wheel/shifter

Honesty is overrated but injuries are forever. Hope you recover quickly.
I'm owning this, it's my sheer stupidity that put me out of commission for a few weeks while it heals. I don't like pushing my luck with infections so I'll wait until it's good again before tinkering again. Last night the blood under the nail was keeping me awake so I busted out a lighter and a safety pin and made some exit holes in the nail. Blissfull sleep after that .
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Old 08-20-2021, 10:27 AM   #669
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Ouuuuuch
The fun part is that I had an 8mm nitrile glove on and when I removed what was left of it...the blood waterfall was intense. I'm officially a goober, lol.

I was going to take my Volvo on vacation in two weeks but now I have to take the grown-up car :(.
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:39 PM   #670
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Back from vacation(s) and putting in work. My finger is healing nicely, and I may even regain most of the feeling .
I have decided to jump headfirst into a DCOE/DHLA conversion so I converted to an in-tank low pressure/high volume pump. IIRC, it's actually the OE 240 transfer pump, but Rockauto lists it for a ton of other makes/models.

I got a proper 'chinese' DCOE manifold and decided to try out the chinese DCOE carbs first. After triple-checking the float levels...the front carb overflows at the bowl vent port and into the venturies. The rear carb only overflows into the vents. I have tried so many things to keep this from happening, and the current fuel feed is only 1.5 psi...so I think I'm done trying to make chinese carbs work. Maybe some of the vendors who sell them have better versions, but these are officially now parts carbs. I have the set of Dellorto DHLA that I tried earlier, and I am going to try them again on the new manifold and electric pump. They didn't drip but they were HORRIBLY rich no matter what I did. If these fail too...I'm going to sell a bunch of stuff to raise money for a proper set of Weber DCOE152G 4-holes.
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Old 09-18-2021, 12:22 PM   #671
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Because I'm a masochist I decided to make these f**king chinese DCOE carbs work. I've managed to get it idling at ~1200 with decent AFRs, and here's what I've had to do:
  • Crank down the jet stack until the brass surely deformed
  • crank down potentially leaky vacuum bypass screws
  • Add bearing retainer on the shaft bearings
  • Reset the throttle plates on the shafts
  • Replace chinese needle valve with genuine weber
  • Grind down the throttle stop tab on the chinese linkage to allow the plates to close fully
  • Set the floats to 15mm instead of 12mm. Set droop to minimal-ish. (Note on this later)

In regards to the float setting, anything less than 15mm on the chinese needles ended up with the float bowls overflowing into the venturis and out the bowl vents. The droop that was built into the floats also took the needles too far down and they jammed open. I was able to mitigate the overflow by setting the floats to 15mm, but it wasn't perfect. When I compared the chinese needle to the genuine Weber, I noticed that the spring inside the clone was very weak compared to the genuine, which made the ball compress BEFORE the float completely shut. When the float reached the top of it's travel, the valve was still open.

I really think the 45s are too big (36mm chokes) for my B21, given that I'm more of a 'mid-range driving' guy, so I may try a set of 34s even though that's way too small in a 45 body. Ultimately though, I think I'll probably just buy a set of genuine DCOE40s. The DHLA40s I have are still untrustworthy, IMO, since I can't get them to idle at a decent (non-eye-bleeding rich) AFR.
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:03 PM   #672
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I really think the 45s are too big (36mm chokes) for my B21, given that I'm more of a 'mid-range driving' guy, so I may try a set of 34s even though that's way too small in a 45 body. Ultimately though, I think I'll probably just buy a set of genuine DCOE40s. The DHLA40s I have are still untrustworthy, IMO, since I can't get them to idle at a decent (non-eye-bleeding rich) AFR.
Ooh, that's a good shout. 45s with 36 chokes are pretty big for a low-compression motor without any headwork or an especially lumpy cam. I hope you realize your whole carb'd engine build is just a blueprint for what I want to do with mine at this point.

Pleased to see progress from you!
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Old 09-19-2021, 10:21 AM   #673
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The B21 I'm using is actually an old AQ140A, so I don't know what the compression ratio is, but there is a 'D' cam in there which definitely seems to be mildly lumpy with the quad barrels. I am loathe to use 34mm chokes in the 45s, but might try, since it's cheaper than buying a set of DCOE 40s. I don't see myself swapping to a 2.3 any time soon, since I have two B21As already, so the 40s would be a perfect fit...but $$...sigh.
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Old 09-19-2021, 02:25 PM   #674
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I might have some DCOE 40's kicking around. I have two sets. But they might be a pair of 35's and 38's. And I think they're actually at my dads place. I can get him to take a gander.
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Old 09-19-2021, 04:45 PM   #675
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If you do, I'd be interested for sure .
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