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Old 07-04-2022, 06:21 PM   #1
OldCarNewTricks
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Default M46 Leaking

Welp, I resealed the bottom four bolts of my M46 OD to trans adapter yesterday, and its STILL leaking. Is it possible to pull the OD off the transmission without removal of the transmission? I honestly don't want to have to pull the transmission all the way back out again after just getting this swap done
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Old 07-04-2022, 06:22 PM   #2
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Old 07-04-2022, 06:51 PM   #3
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Yes.
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:20 AM   #4
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This OD seal kit from iPD comes with a little guide on removing the OD unit while in the car

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/7348...lvo-IPD-115283
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:41 AM   #5
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Okay, great! Thanks, guys. I purchased Professional Parts Sweden kit #41431574. It has the gasket I need, as well as some extras. I think once I get the OD off, I should be able to get the adapter off after that. I'm hoping that the PO used RTV because it's all they had and not because the surfaces are in bad shape.
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:35 AM   #6
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Gaps? Just need more rtv, it’s like welding, more filler
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Old 07-05-2022, 10:25 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Radtap View Post
Gaps? Just need more rtv, it’s like welding, more filler
I mean, you're not wrong

I'm debating whether I want to go through the OD when it's out. It worked the first time I used it, about a mile after startup. Wouldn't go back into OD after I tried to a couple miles later. The fluid loss is fairly bad, but I don't think bad enough to cause that issue. Unless the J-Type is very sensitive to fluid level?
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Old 07-05-2022, 01:19 PM   #8
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The pump pickup for the OD is ~1-1.5" above the bottom of the trans pan.
OD will quit engaging if the fluid runs a little low, but with the M46s that isn't often detrimental to the trans itself unlike it is with the M47s; the OD stops engaging & the owner brings it in for service before running it under load at speed on the freeway or attempting a long trip without the OD working &/or a leak...

...furthermore, the M46 in the gear you're likely to spend the most time in (4th or OD) can be ~1" low on fluid (fluid still splashes off the gears properly ~1" low just fine & the OD & its housing is often the source of the leak) & 4th & OD are direct drive/planetary gear set, so no thrust load on the bearings, (leak gets a lot slower once the fluid drops below the OD pump pickup level, usually) & 1st is nice & big at the front of the case to keep the wash cycle going or the owner if they're a cheap dirtbag lowlife tops it off with fresh fluid to keep the OD working.

In stark contrast, the M47s, the rear housing is warpy/duct taped onto what is fundamentally the same gear case (alum tho like many later M45/M46 & all 700 M46s) & leaks at the bottom of the trans, loses fluid, but 5th gear still works & has a thrust load on the bearings while cruising/at load on the freeway. Owner doesn't notice & runs it until it sounds like a coffee grinder/is worn out junk. M46 is direct drive or planetary gear set in OD/no thrust load on the bearings & shafts.

This all said, from the pics, yours looks molested/has the wrong bolts holding the OD adapter housing onto the red iron case there and whatever moron removed the OD for service broke apart it at the back of the trans itself and it leaks at the bottom/you're going to have to rectify that and pray they didn't lose the bearing shim that goes between the OD adapter housing & trans case.
Further, looks like its got the wrong bolts and mount on there?
With all the thai-wang doo-doo rubber/chinesium even in the Volvo/Geely blue box these days for cars >10years old (or sometimes less, but it lasts the warranty before the owner is suppose to throw the car away/get a new one or send the whole car back to the mothership/manufacturer/oz for proper diagnosis/repair with all their special tools/data ), IDK what to even recommend?
OEM 164 engine mount & space the trans x-member down with the AW7x alum spacers was the traditional 'cheap & effective hack shade tree volvo guy' fix for the horrible bad joke/weak mounts on those things.

You can remove the J OD with the trans in the car as well as the adapter housing. Not much fun, and often the splines are bound up on the J & earlier ODs something fierce with the way the overrunning clutch & planetary star (between the sun & ring gear) splines are separate & weak on those compared to the gear vendors or P & later type (P is incompatible with the J main shaft & rare/those are all worn out now too/harder to find, anyway).

If the OD engages at all, the service book on that Brit(ish) (ish as in sh1t!) POS instructs you to engage OD, push in the clutch & just let it spin down to release the splines.
Thanks a lot you British cheeky a-holes...the whole reason I'm removing the leaky tempermental POS built by you idiot slap-dicks in leaky oxfordshire tunnels is that it won't engage in the first ****ing place!

There are other ways to remove it if it won't engage:
-Put a come-along on the back of the flange to the rear axle or slide hammer it off (kind of risky and brutal).
-Energize the solenoid, make an adapter for the pressure test port & pump it up from the pressure test port if the o-rings don't leak too badly/hydraulic circuit/solenoid works at all to pop the cone clutch off the annulus case toward the brake ring.
-Kill the engine in reverse a few times against the brakes before attempting removal.

Some white lithium grease rubbed into the gasket with clean dry surfaces and proper shim between OD adapter housing & M46 main trans goes a long way for trans longevity & no leaks.
Almost all the Js leak at the speedometer plug (1 hat seal & 1 o-ring on that stupid thing below fluid level facing downward )

For the long haul with these cars, you kinda want a later fine spline M46 freshed up to go to the grocery store/drive gently instead of an M47, tempermental and british as the OD is (& it heats the fluid more when OD than just a mechanically actuated gear of kind & takes fluid with compromises more suited to planetary gear sets/wet clutches & hydraulic control circuits found in automatic trans more often etc. than brass syncros etc in gears 1-4...)...

...that said, for racing, you don't want the OD/longer weaker hollow gun-drilled main shaft (to lube the over-running clutch with fluid pumped from the OD pump running off the cam on the shaft there) for shock loads and want an M45, M51 or M400 to beat the hell out of the OE Volvo RWD trans...
...or M90, I suppose, but we didn't get those stateside & they're a little tight in the 240 trans tunnel/need the linkage for the shifter shortened (lots of weak bushings BMW style & alloy arms (M90 is a getrag design), but they use the same junk drawer as the M56 FWDs/Wrong wheel drives...
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Last edited by Kjets On a Plane; 07-05-2022 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 07-05-2022, 01:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjets On a Plane View Post
The pump pickup for the OD is ~1-1.5" above the bottom of the trans pan.
OD will quit engaging if the fluid runs a little low, but with the M46s that isn't often detrimental to the trans itself unlike it is with the M47s; the OD stops engaging & the owner brings it in for service before running it under load at speed on the freeway or attempting a long trip without the OD working &/or a leak...

...furthermore, the M46 in the gear you're likely to spend the most time in (4th or OD) can be ~1" low on fluid (fluid still splashes off the gears properly ~1" low & the OD & its housing is often the source of the leak (leak gets a lot slower once the fluid drops below the OD pump pickup level, usually) & 1st is nice & big at the front of the case to keep the wash cycle going or the owner if they're a cheap dirtbag lowlife tops it off with fresh fluid to keep the OD working.

In stark contrast, the M47s, the rear housing is warpy/duct taped onto what is fundamentally the same gear case (alum tho like many later M45/M46 & all 700 M46s) & leaks at the bottom of the trans, loses fluid, but 5th gear still works & has a thrust load on the bearings while cruising/at load on the freeway. Owner doesn't notice & runs it until it sounds like a coffee grinder/is worn out junk. M46 is direct drive or planetary gear set in OD/no thrust load on the bearings & shafts.

This all said, from the pics, yours looks molested/has the wrong bolts holding the OD adapter housing onto the red iron case there and whatever moron removed the OD for service broke apart it at the back of the trans itself and it leaks at the bottom/you're going to have to rectify that and pray they didn't lose the bearing shim that goes between the OD adapter housing & trans case.
Further, looks like its got the wrong bolts and mount on there?
With all the thai-wang doo-doo rubber/chinesium even in the Volvo/Geely blue box these days for cars >10years old (or sometimes less, but it lasts the warranty before the owner is suppose to throw the car away/get a new one or send the whole car back to the mothership/manufacturer/oz for proper diagnosis/repair with all their special tools/data ), IDK what to even recommend?
OEM 164 engine mount & space the trans x-member down with the AW7x alum spacers was the traditional 'cheap & effective hack shade tree volvo guy' fix for the horrible bad joke/weak mounts on those things.

You can remove the J OD with the trans in the car as well as the adapter housing. Not much fun, and often the splines are bound up on the J & earlier ODs something fierce with the way the overrunning clutch & planetary star (between the sun & ring gear) splines are separate & weak on those compared to the gear vendors or P & later type (P is incompatible with the J main shaft & rare/those are all worn out now too/harder to find.

If the OD engages at all, the service book on that Brit(ish) (ish as in sh1t!) POS instructs you to engage OD, push in the clutch & just let it spin down to release the splines.
Thanks a lot you British cheeky a-holes...the whole reason I'm removing the leaky tempermental POS built by you idiot slap-dicks in leaky oxfordshire tunnels is that it won't engage in the first ****ing place!

There are other ways to remove it if it won't engage.
-Put a come-along on the back of the flange to the rear axle or slide hammer it off (kind of risky and brutal).
-Energize the solenoid, make an adapter for the pressure test port & pump it up from the pressure test port if the o-rings don't leak too badly/hydraulic circuit/solenoid works at all to pop the cone clutch off the annulus case toward the brake ring.
-Kill the engine in reverse a few times against the brakes before attempting removal.

Some white lithium grease rubbed into the gasket with clean dry surfaces and proper shim between OD adapter housing & M46 main trans goes a long way for trans longevity & no leaks.
Almost all the Js leak at the speedometer plug (1 hat seal & 1 o-ring on that stupid thing below fluid level facing downward )

For the long haul with these cars, you kinda want a later fine spline M46 freshed up to go to the grocery store/drive gently instead of an M46, tempermental and british as the OD is...
...that said, for racing, you don't want the OD/longer weaker hollow gun-drilled main shaft (to lube the over-running clutch with fluid pumped from the OD pump running off the cam on the shaft there) for shock loads and want an M45, M51 or M400 to beat the hell out of the OE Volvo RWD trans...
...or M90, I suppose, but we didn't get those stateside & they're a little tight in the 240 trans tunnel/need the linkage for the shifter shortened (lots of weak bushings BMW style & alloy arms (M90 is a getrag design), but they use the same junk drawer as the M56 FWDs/Wrong wheel drives...
So, good news is that I filled it up yesterday and drove it again this morning and it shifted into OD correctly every time I tried to, even after good and hot. So I definitely think fluid loss was giving me grief the first time.

Yeah, I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that a new gasket and a little bit of patience will make everything work out okay.

Is it just the rubber mount that is wrong, or is the bracket on the transmission incorrect, too?
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:00 PM   #10
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Transmission metal bracket is correct, however the rubber mount is not anything I've seen.

PS;

You might want to swap the O rings out before they give you grief and lazy engagement at a future time.
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood Chair View Post
Transmission metal bracket is correct, however the rubber mount is not anything I've seen.

PS;

You might want to swap the O rings out before they give you grief and lazy engagement at a future time.
Okay, good to know. Guess Rockauto is wrong listing the same mount for auto and manual.

These o-rings?
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:29 PM   #12
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The piston O-rings (#18) are the ones that wear the most.

They're also the only ones you don't have access to with the OD on.

Last edited by hiperfauto; 07-05-2022 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 07-05-2022, 06:01 PM   #13
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^This.
& all the earlier blue teflon seals have pretty much all given up the ghost by now & the late updated pistons that take conventional O-rings are NLA (from Volvo, anyway IIRC?), but the early Teflon type seals aren’t really replaceable by conventional parts & avg. backyard mechanic methods (glued/bonded to the pistons iirc? I forget/haven’t attempted to reinstall or order any Teflon seal actuation pistons that push the cone clutch off the annulus case onto the brake ring against the spring pressure there…).

That said, the teflon seals are the right idea (in theory); raw aluminum housing & the pressure pushes the seal against the raw aluminum alloy housing without abrasively wearing it prematurely or belling it like pistons rocking at the top of their bores or more conventional type o-rings on steel pistons can..

That said, try to use the updated pistons & ultra hi-temp proper durometer viton o-rings; the worst of the expedient known options, except for the others...

I've had a few OD valve bodies (in cold weather/thick fluid) on cars driven in the country with 300,000-500,000+ miles that spent a lot of time in OD (before the ODO quit counting usually 5-10+ years ago? ) where the valve body was too worn & needed to be swapped out or sleeved for the OD engagement pistons & o-rings to seal properly.

Happens on the cold weather cars with the directional valve housing on the steering rack too; seal is harder than hard in cold weather & wears a groove in the virginal soft raw aluminum alloy housing & you get 'morning sickness' from the hydraulic-assist steering rack (uneven assist, leaks &/or no assist cold in one or both directions).

Last edited by Kjets On a Plane; 07-06-2022 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 07-05-2022, 06:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood Chair View Post
Transmission metal bracket is correct, however the rubber mount is not anything I've seen.
He has an auto mount instead of the puck one normally used on manuals
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