home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > projects & restorations

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2021, 02:09 AM   #76
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Next up, a bit of wiring. I had a couple of fixes to apply:
  • get rid of the early 2000s split loom
  • make things actually reach. Many things had been moved around in the engine compartment since the last loom was adapted.
  • get rid of the very very hardened Volvo over jacket
  • generally neaten things and organize the wiring
  • move the powerstage right next to the coil. In v1.0 this was across the engine compartment and I think responsible for spark drop out at idle. This appears to be true as that problem went away with moving the module.

First step: take it all apart.



The key to this is a set of terminal removal tools of which you need precisely one:



Note the slight angle on the tip. This pushes the locking tab out of the way and the insert slides right out. The tab is on the non-crimp side. Not great focus but the tool is slid into the housing on the side of the connector away from the crimp barbs, the tab is depressed and the insert is removed. There are opening for tabs on both sides but the insert is single sided. On reinsertion there are locking ramps in either orientation.



With careful measuring all the wires are sized to just the right length. PET braid is slid over (coverage starting at the deepest point!) with heat shrink as appropriate at junctions and terminations. Not all the boots survived to process but those were usually pretty shredded already.



The three main bundles in the engine compartment are:
  • AMM, fan, O2 sensor (right side)
  • Inejectors (resistor pack moved out of the engine bay)
  • Engine sensors (coolant temp, TPS, knock, oil temp, etc...)
  • Powerstage

These go through a grommet in the firewall and end up in the passenger footwell.



That part does get split loom because it's so much easier when you don't have a depinned end. It's also under the carpet. These harnesses also carry in power from a sub-fuse panel and relays under the dash.
__________________
'71 142E, M41, Corbeau GT seats, iPd bars and springs, Nardi wheel, GT gauges, overmatched KYB Gas-A-Justs, Canisto wheels, 7" and Series 175 Cibies
'95 T5-R, yellow, M56H swap
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2021, 02:25 AM   #77
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

And as it stands today:



Left the garage under it's own power and idled in the driveway. Fan cycled on and off again so that all seems to work. Nothing leaks. No belts squeal.

Tires are aired up, lug nuts are torqued and running out of excuses to let this thing go. For tires set one (on there) are ~10yrs old and hard as old eraser shavings. Potential set 2 are the tires from the T5-R. Those are pure summer treadwear 200 Potenza RE-71R. Given road temps in the low 40s either set will probably put me into a utility pole before too long. Best to take it easy.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2021, 11:09 AM   #78
122in805
Board Member
 
122in805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Nice work there. The photos must not account for the foul muttering to oneself and patience required to mate everything up properly!
__________________
Andrew : 1965 122 Wagon.
122in805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2021, 10:26 AM   #79
PaddyGarcia
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: NW Virginia
Default

Nice work, good tip on the terminal tools.

My tip in return - summer tires in winter are a terrible idea and can make you really sad really quickly. I wish I could find the photo of my bent 911, but you get the picture...
PaddyGarcia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2021, 04:17 PM   #80
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddyGarcia View Post
My tip in return - summer tires in winter are a terrible idea and can make you really sad really quickly. I wish I could find the photo of my bent 911, but you get the picture...
That was one of the great tragedies of COVID - not feeling the need to break out the summer tires. The T5-R just sat on the curb all summer wearing the winter steelies. I think I drove it twice? The Potenzas go on when I can be confident the road surfaces will be in the 50s as they are sketchy in the cold. They're marked as treadwear 200 but a friend of mine who uses up a lot of DOT race tires claims they're closer to 150. They certainly throw a bunch of gravel up into the wheel wells when given the opportunity. They're, surprisingly, not too bad in the rain.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2021, 04:19 PM   #81
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 122in805 View Post
Nice work there. The photos must not account for the foul muttering to oneself and patience required to mate everything up properly!
The wiring was surprisingly soothing after all the tubing butt welded with MIG... *shudder*
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2021, 02:05 AM   #82
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Dug out the hood and after reading a bit on restoring antique paint decided it probably couldn't look any worse. This actually looks better than real life. It was impossible to discern the reflection of a bare bulb above the hood in it's original state. Did a couple of test areas with Menzerna 2500. Probably the biggest improvement for the least effort. Did the whole hood with that.



After flood #1 with Meguiar's #7 applied as per Mike Phillips at Autogeek



After a second flood application of #7 followed by a buff with Menzerna 3500 (my go-to clear coat over carbon bike polish) and a liberal coat of liquid wax.





I think there's something there. When I last had the interior apart I found the paint under the parcel shelf is nicely applied without much orange peel on smooth metal and is a very bright gold. The exposed body seems to have mellowed into a darker shade. I'll be quite curious to see it outside tomorrow. If all goes according to plan I may even bolt it back onto the car.

So the good news is the (likely EPA banned) single stage metallic paint can come back with a nice mellow look versus an extreme gloss. The protocol is roughly:
  • surface cut with microfiber loaded with 2500
  • soak with #7 24hrs (probably twice on roof and trunk, maybe once elsewhere)
  • polish with 3500
  • wax

I'm really hesitant to hit it with any power tools as this paint is 50yrs old now and this would be my first effort. I guess the only bad news is I have the rest of the car ahead of me.

If anyone who knows more about detailing and sees some labor savings I can eek out I'd love the advice. Otherwise, I think my evenings through February are all planned out.

Last edited by joel142; 01-24-2021 at 02:20 AM.. Reason: typo
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2021, 02:19 PM   #83
122in805
Board Member
 
122in805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

HMU some afternoon this week. I cut and polished cars for almost two decades.. still do on occasion. Happy to talk shop and help you achieve optimal results.
122in805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 01:51 PM   #84
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 122in805 View Post
HMU some afternoon this week. I cut and polished cars for almost two decades.. still do on occasion. Happy to talk shop and help you achieve optimal results.
Thanks, I'm getting to the body right now. I have some new and improved sponges showing up and some 2400 versus 2500. From the description the real difference is in viscosity so it'll be easier to hand apply.

I'm not exactly sure how I missed this but I thought I was dealing with heavily oxidized paint that had bleached/faded; but, it's actually a respray. As it's getting brighter and (actually) reflective it's coming up distinctly more silver than the more yellow gold in the door jams and inner fenders. When I bought the car the paint was pretty messed up and oxidized to matte-satin. I never spent any time on it because I assumed I'd get it repainted sometime after the engine swap. Now as time dragged on I'm more interested in restoring the paint then completely redoing it and lo and behold it's a different color. Now that I know where to look and can imagine the masking process the lines or old and new color are suddenly visible.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 02:11 PM   #85
122in805
Board Member
 
122in805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Cheers to your assessment... believe it or not, every vehicle's paint tells the story.

2400 vs 2500, even with viscosity differences will be negligible if you're working by hand. An entry level random orbit polisher will save you dozens of hours and produce significantly better results, safely. Save your rotator cuff and time!
122in805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 06:50 PM   #86
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 122in805 View Post
Cheers to your assessment... believe it or not, every vehicle's paint tells the story.

2400 vs 2500, even with viscosity differences will be negligible if you're working by hand. An entry level random orbit polisher will save you dozens of hours and produce significantly better results, safely. Save your rotator cuff and time!
I believe it - up until a week ago it was: car ignored in a garage for a decade.

Your advice tipped the scales and I have a buffer coming in in the mail. Now that it's not the 50yo original paint I'm feeling a little more free to go at it.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 08:19 PM   #87
John242Ti
LH-Jet & Carb Free Zone
 
John242Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Duvall, WA
Default

Yeah, looks like someone painted the car Coronado Gold Metallic (code 135)...
__________________

1982 242Ti - black, M46. 1985 245Ti - blue, M46.

@john242ti on IG
John242Ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2021, 10:31 PM   #88
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Installed the hood, sponged washed, and clay-bared the whole car. One interesting note is the door mirrors are in dramatically different positions. The right side is much closer to the window.

After the clay-bar got at it with the random orbit polisher and foam disk to great effect. Now I understand the 300 polish; starting with the 2400 was slow but safe. It takes a few rounds to get it shiny and smooth but then the 3500 looks really good after. The garage ceiling is almost completely tiled in fluorescent light fixtures I scored off a neighboring business when they were re-doing their suspended ceiling. To say it's unforgiving is probably generous - is great for seeing defects in anything.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 02:19 AM   #89
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John242Ti View Post
Yeah, looks like someone painted the car Coronado Gold Metallic (code 135)...
I'm betting it's more along the lines of early 80s single stage Maaco "gold." Thankfully there's no clear coat. Some areas of paint are quite odd with, seemingly, islets of gold paint. Almost like the flake wasn't completely distributed. I may try to get a better shot just for posterity.

Now that I have less fear the polisher will add a new gutter channel I got into the roof (well, half of it). This is with a yellow pad and the 2400 grit Menznera.





First run took most of the white oxidation off and gave it a little shine, second and third got it shiny but with some unevenness, fourth made it nice and consistent. I was thinking about investing in some more aggressive compound but the trunk and the side don't have nearly the same paint problems. I think those will clean up in 1-2 hits.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2021, 04:38 PM   #90
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 122in805 View Post
Cheers to your assessment... believe it or not, every vehicle's paint tells the story.
Indeed it does - turns out the back 1/3 has clear coat! Our timeline so far:
  • 1971 - original gold paint. This can be seen in the inner sills and engine compartment. As 30+ yrs of oxidation and paint defects come off the exterior of the car this becomes more obvious.
  • 1980's? - single stage gold over the top. This is very hard and, seemingly, has some odd dark spots/swirls where the gold flake just wasn't that well mixed. I'm thinking 80s because the car had to warrant a paint job while still valuable enough to merit it.
  • 1990's? - well matching gold with clear coat from the C-pillar back. This corresponds to some witness marks in the trunk on the left rear fender. There's also a bit of bondo that got ejected when it was hit in the left rear again just before I bought it.

After working on the single stage getting the clear coated areas shiny seems so easy.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 03:54 PM   #91
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

calling it on the hood as I think I've reached the point of diminishing returns at my current skill level. Various buffing steps but no wax yet. Have good hopes for shine after waxing



Just one more big panel on the 142 then return to all the little bits I couldn't get to with the DA. Comparing this to even the 26yo 850, the 850 is so much better setup for paint maintenance. Then comparing the 850 to the 15yo R500 you could probably do that one in a morning.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2021, 05:16 PM   #92
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default



Out and about for another shakedown drive. Start easily, idles, drives, stops, shifts, etc... No fluids leak out or seem to be mysteriously consumed and disappeared out the tail pipe. Driving it still feels like you're in a cement mixer with a collection of bowling balls. It's a visceral driving experience.

There is a fair amount of vibe above about 40mph and since I've made no effort to align the drivetrain angles after adding the Yoshifab torque rods I'm betting that's not helped. Still on just the wastegate spring for the 18t. It saw a little boost but I didn't get too far into the RPMs as it was just residential streets and the side exit 3" exhaust is a little rowdy for them.
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2021, 07:25 PM   #93
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

That's super exciting!!
__________________
Hank Scorpio is from the Simpsons. You can call me Doug ;)
Will trade guitars/guitar parts for go fast goodies or stuff I need. Just PM.
www.kauerguitars.com the second best way to upset neighbors and alienate people.
History: Car 1 (242) | Car 2 (t5r) | Car 3 (255)
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2021, 08:03 PM   #94
Tfrasca
Board Member
 
Tfrasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ben Lomond, CA
Default

Nice!
Tfrasca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2021, 06:09 PM   #95
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfrasca View Post
Nice!
Thanks.

Now that it's running it's starting a test progression to see what I have. It was idling a bit rough and throttle tip in was poor/bogging so I made up a boost pressure tester:



Kind of wish I had a lathe and I kind of wish it were black delrin, but, it got there eventually.



I found a major leak on the one weld that I looked at, felt pleased that "I'm beginning to get this!" and subsequently didn't pressure test with soapy water. Ground that back, rewelded, and now it holds to 15PSI. After getting all the tubing put back together the idle was much improved and it waits for the next weather window and test drive.

During testing there was a truly tiny hiss of air escaping the air idle adapter plate between the plate and intake manifold. I had reused the gasket and maybe it leaked from the beginning? Is there a rule of thumb for when the leak search can be considered "good enough?" When you're down to the level of the intercooler drain hole in the original system? In D-Jet land the answer seemed to be "never."
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2021, 11:32 AM   #96
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

if all the valves are closed, I'd expect that you could pump it to 30 psi for 30 min with no pressure drop. Or at least pass the soapy water test. If it were me, I'd glue that adapter down with Ultra Copper or Ultra Black RTV, or spray the gasket with some copper, wouldnt be a bad idea to do the threads too. It wont take much. Couldnt really tell from you pictures, but are there any burrs on either part? might be worth an extra stoning.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
Build it, break it, build what broke stronger, lather, rinse, repeat.

The Build Thread
SVEA - PUSHROD TURBO!
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2021, 12:08 PM   #97
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
if all the valves are closed, I'd expect that you could pump it to 30 psi for 30 min with no pressure drop. Or at least pass the soapy water test. If it were me, I'd glue that adapter down with Ultra Copper or Ultra Black RTV, or spray the gasket with some copper, wouldnt be a bad idea to do the threads too. It wont take much. Couldnt really tell from you pictures, but are there any burrs on either part? might be worth an extra stoning.
I think I have a ball valve I can add into the mix to work towards something like that. It is a vintage engine in an antique car. There may be a limit to what I can ask for.

All of the edges of the adapter have been broken with a file and the sealing surface lapped to remove machining marks. I've no doubt I can make is seal but I'm wondering if there's an accepted wisdom for "good enough."
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2021, 01:01 PM   #98
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joel142 View Post
I think I have a ball valve I can add into the mix to work towards something like that. It is a vintage engine in an antique car. There may be a limit to what I can ask for.

All of the edges of the adapter have been broken with a file and the sealing surface lapped to remove machining marks. I've no doubt I can make is seal but I'm wondering if there's an accepted wisdom for "good enough."
I'd make sure it holds your boost pressure +25%, but that would be assuming that your cam will allow all the valves to be closed when testing. Or remove the cam and test both sides, intake and exhaust. 100% no leaks on a 30 minute test would be my thoughts.
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2021, 01:53 PM   #99
Tfrasca
Board Member
 
Tfrasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ben Lomond, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joel142 View Post
I think I have a ball valve I can add into the mix to work towards something like that. It is a vintage engine in an antique car. There may be a limit to what I can ask for.
I often go back and forth between "good enough for an old car" and "I'm spending hundreds of hours making stuff from scratch, so it should be perfect regardless".
Tfrasca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2021, 03:37 PM   #100
joel142
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfrasca View Post
I often go back and forth between "good enough for an old car" and "I'm spending hundreds of hours making stuff from scratch, so it should be perfect regardless".
I used to chase leaks on vacuum systems back in school and at some point you just needed to call it good enough. If you're already flowing argon to strike a plasma a little N2/O2 is going to be a known and accepted percentage. Now, on a high vacuum system with all metal seals...that's no longer acceptable. I expect I'll goo the adapter plate, take it for a spin, and see if it run/drives good enough.

It is an interesting thing to think about - what is the measurement tolerance stack of the sensors in the car. Certainly, as it makes decisions on the fuel side - taking air mass in and applying fuel - there is an error bar on each of those steps. No need to make it harder for the computers but, this isn't some kind of max effort performance build.

As I've gone from trying to construct the car to trying to work on the car I really appreciate all the design-for-service that went into my '95 850.

Last edited by joel142; 03-19-2021 at 05:46 PM..
joel142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.