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Old 07-13-2021, 11:30 AM   #1
volvo 4 life
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Default Aftermarket turbine options for td04hl turbos, any benefit?

Iíve stumbled across these two turbines for Mitsubishi turbos, made by mamba performance. The 9 blade turbine would seem to make sense for a little extra flow given that there should be less surface area on the wheel. The 5+5 turbine is very interesting as Iíve never seen that wheel design on the exhaust side of any turbo and Iím very tempted to try it just for the fact that itís different. Does anyone have any knowledge as to what the benefit of such a design would be or any real world experience with aftermarket wheels in td04 series turbos?

9 blade: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262953002219

5+5: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265184972614
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:11 PM   #2
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Ask them for maps
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:57 PM   #3
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Ive been there with a 19t and almost pulled the trigger on the 9 blade. But after researching I decided to abandon the 19t and went a whole different route. Id say if your happy spending that money and only seeing 10-15 hp or maybe less w.o. other mods, Id go for it. If you do it let us know the results, will help others.
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:44 AM   #4
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MAMBA D5 (5+5) designed makes your turbo spool fast and reduce back pressure and temperature that will support higher top end. The theory is right here now you'd have to confirm that empirically if no one else has in the volvo phone world.

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Old 07-14-2021, 10:09 AM   #5
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It’s so unusual I think I have to try it. The only thing is that the description kind of contradicts itself where it says it helps it spool quicker and gives more top end. Generally it seems to be a trade off where you either get faster spool or more top end, but maybe this “magic wheel” can do both. I’ll buy it and report back when I install it. I’m building a 13g into a replacement for my 13c and want more top end, so I figured this wheel would increase the very restrictive exhaust side flow by a small amount and then I’m considering either a billet wheel for the intake side or the 19t conversion that mamba also makes. I’ll probably go that route so I’ll have some head room when I finally get around to making some fuel system upgrades.

Last edited by volvo 4 life; 07-14-2021 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:50 AM   #6
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Its pretty hard to say anything without some type of empirical data about the different wheels.

11 blade wheel should spool faster then a 9 blade wheel and the 9 blade should have less restriction but if the blades have different profiles between the 11 and 9, its probably not enough to give you an idea of the full picture.

Throw in the 5+5 design and who knows. Without some maps or flow data, making an educated comparison is not so easy.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:38 AM   #7
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I agree, there are a lot of variables that factor into the overall performance of these wheels. That’s the problem with getting aftermarket stuff for niche market vehicles like volvos, there’s just not much real world data on certain things. I would guess the 5+5 would be the least restrictive of any of the td04hl turbines since the blade area appears to be the smallest overall. I purchased it though and it will be in some time next week so now I just need to get the compressor side of things ordered and I can try it out. The only problem is I wasn’t planning on installing the turbo with the stock turbine first so it will be hard to make any real comparisons. Maybe I should do that so other people can have something to go off of before they decide to order one for themselves. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve never seen another turbine with that style wheel, I’ve only ever seen staggered compressor wheels.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by volvo 4 life View Post
I agree, there are a lot of variables that factor into the overall performance of these wheels. That’s the problem with getting aftermarket stuff for niche market vehicles like volvos, there’s just not much real world data on certain things. I would guess the 5+5 would be the least restrictive of any of the td04hl turbines since the blade area appears to be the smallest overall. I purchased it though and it will be in some time next week so now I just need to get the compressor side of things ordered and I can try it out. The only problem is I wasn’t planning on installing the turbo with the stock turbine first so it will be hard to make any real comparisons. Maybe I should do that so other people can have something to go off of before they decide to order one for themselves. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve never seen another turbine with that style wheel, I’ve only ever seen staggered compressor wheels.
U can easily write someone like garret turbos and get their engineers take. knowledge is as easy as seeking it in reality. In this case such an item seems to do what it says.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYozhtN8W1Y&t=99s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYDHvU6rEZw

Last edited by hk 40; 07-14-2021 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 07-14-2021, 01:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
U can easily write someone like garret turbos and get their engineers take. knowledge is as easy as seeking it in reality. In this case such an item seems to do what it says.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYozhtN8W1Y&t=99s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYDHvU6rEZw
Thats a compressor wheel not a turbine wheel. OP is asking about turbine wheels. Asking Garrett to give you info on an import non-Garret product is not going to be very useful.

Only people with actual intel will be manufacturers or people with first hand experience.
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Old 07-14-2021, 01:59 PM   #10
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Yes your right but in my mind the principles and goals are pretty much the same maximizing the efficiency and spool up on either side of the coin. The eyeball test seems to suggest this are facilitated in a very similar fashion as far as the general blade topology. I could be very wrong but my experience with high speed boat props specifically tandems and CR seem to suggest they are simply after further streamlining and directing the flow for less turbulence which should in turn increase it's spool speed fighting against less. If its significantly lighter that should also increase spool response.

Last edited by hk 40; 07-14-2021 at 02:08 PM..
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Old 07-14-2021, 07:44 PM   #11
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I'd be skeptical of Mamba's ability to come up with something better than MHI given the difference in resources for R&D, at least without extraordinary evidence as Carl Sagan would say.
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Old 07-15-2021, 08:24 AM   #12
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I'm also curious about the aftermarket wheels that are available for the TD04HL snails.

I also believe that the R&D department of MAMBA/KINU/KAMAK is nothing compared to the one of MHI, but we also have to consider that the MHI designs are over 20 years old by now and that KAMAK has no problems with copying and adjusting newer designs.

Personally i would stay with the 11 blade MHI design (standard is 12 blade from MHI, so it's already an upgrade) because the main advantage of the TD04's is spool. I'm also curious about the 11 blade GTX compressor wheels that are offered. Would they give any benefit over the 6+6 design?

And then there's something that would also be interesting as a drop-in upgrade, the TD04HLX-21TK:
https://shop.mambatek.com/Heavy-Duty...4-001-2578.htm
This one has got a larger turbine and compressor (9/6+6) wheel than the standard 19/20T and should be a noticeable step up from the normal TD04HL, maybe it's best described as a TD04.5HL...
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:32 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by redblockpowered View Post
I'd be skeptical of Mamba's ability to come up with something better than MHI given the difference in resources for R&D, at least without extraordinary evidence as Carl Sagan would say.
I dont know if thats the right way to look at it. The standard stuff works well for what it was initially designed for. MHI did a great job developing wheels for stock cars. Most people commenting on these are trying to expand the performance envelope from what these things provided as supplied. Just because mamba comes up with a less restrictive wheel that might not spool or respond quite as fast but has a lot more top end, doesn't mean they are better or worse then MHI at design. Its a different use scenario with different parameters.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:23 PM   #14
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That's fair. Could certainly be some sort of tradeoff that doesn't make sense in an OEM application but works for more of an aftermarket performance setup. I'd love to see someone test one of these out, maybe some other community has?
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:51 PM   #15
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If I get ambitious I’ll try the turbo two ways, either stock 13g vs stock 13g with upgraded turbine, or 19t compressor conversion with stock turbine vs 19t compressor and aftermarket turbine. I ordered the 5+5 and it’s supposed to be here next week, I’m definitely excited to give it a shot. Either way, it’s common knowledge the hot side of these turbos are very small and choke the top end so hopefully it will help hold power up near redline instead of falling on its face as the rpms climb. Should be interesting!
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:42 AM   #16
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If you want a TD04 with a larger turbine wheel, isn't that another name for a TD05?

On a related note, does anyone know where to get flow maps for the stock MHI turbines?
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
If you want a TD04 with a larger turbine wheel, isn't that another name for a TD05?

On a related note, does anyone know where to get flow maps for the stock MHI turbines?
Or a TD04H, or a TD04HL like a lot of us have. And it doesn't seem that that part of the p/n will tell you if you have Volvo/SAAB 12 blade turbine wheel or Dodge SRT4 11 blade turbine wheel.

TD05 will have bigger bearings and such too, just a larger frame turbo all the way down.

Looks like the 9 blade wheel and a 19T compressor was used by GReddy on turbo kits for Civics in the late 90s intended for about 300 whp. Seems like a fairly compellingly package with the larger Volvo turbine housing if it works as advertised.
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