home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2020, 01:12 PM   #1
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default Transmission options for reliability and longevity

Planning a ~5000 mile road trip for June, and my AW70 is showing signs of giving up after 250K- reverse gear slips on occasional and slams into gear when giving throttle. Also an audible whine is heard in 1st.

Every thread I read on here is about trans options for boosted high power builds. My car is NA, and will probably stay that way.

I'd like to know if the AW71 is my best bet for reliability and cost effectiveness.

With the rwd volvos rapidly becoming antiques, finding any OEM volvo transmission available anywhere local is really proving to be a challenge.

So, here are my options:

1. Junkyard AW71
Price: $200-300
Reliability: toss up, I'd prefer not to gamble on one

2. Online Pre-rebuilt AW71
Price: ~$1500-2500
Reliability: Good?
(any recommendations?)

3. Locally rebuild AW71
Price: ~$2000
Reliability: Good?

4. T5 swap
Price: ~$1500
Reliability: ??? I feel like the nature of a retrofitted transmission brings reliability into question here for my application

5. m46/m47
Price: ???
Reliability: Same thing here... weak trans to begin with, now add 200K miles...

6. Others?


I'm hesitant to spend upwards of $2000 on an AW71, but if that's my best bet, and if that will bring me trouble-free-trans cruising in my 240 for years to come, then so be it. I don't want to rebuild the AW71 myself. I've never rebuilt a trans, and there's plenty of room for 'learning curve errors' that I'd like to avoid entirely.

For those with the T5, does anyone ever experience any problems related to the retrofitted nature of the transmission? Or any problems at all, for that matter?
__________________
'96 854 Platinum - "Trusty"
'92 245 - "Boat"
'71 145 - "Rusty"
'93 Land Cruiser - "Ruby"
'01 Cherokee - "Janice"
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 01:54 PM   #2
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

When was the last oil change in the trans? A friend who uses his car for delivery six days a week was having some issues especially with the overdrive not working. We determined it was inside the trans either the solenoid or the path the oil takes. He did a synthetic trans fluid oil change using the method that lets it pump the oil out while you fill with the dipstick tube and it solved his issues. His car has about 200k on it.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 02:03 PM   #3
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
When was the last oil change in the trans? A friend who uses his car for delivery six days a week was having some issues especially with the overdrive not working. We determined it was inside the trans either the solenoid or the path the oil takes. He did a synthetic trans fluid oil change using the method that lets it pump the oil out while you fill with the dipstick tube and it solved his issues. His car has about 200k on it.
Just did one about 5-7K miles ago, maybe 6 months ago?
Fluid that came out was pretty clean, maybe 20% darkened, no burnt smell. Car was also religiously dealer serviced (windshield wipers, oil filter, even V-belts all Volvo brand).

Fluid that went in was 12L of volvo oem ATF DexIII

From everything I've read, a 250K mile lifespan for an AW70 seems normal.
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 02:11 PM   #4
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

My T5 was always noisy, got noisier. After plenty of abuse behind 300 - 350 whp. But it never broke. One would probably last forever behind a stock non-boosted Volvo motor.

M47 should last about forever as well, only shift a little better (maybe) than a T5. Maybe try to find one with less than 200K on it? And teamed with a typical automatic-car rear axle ratio - the gearing is a bit short.

Swapping to a manual is more of an issue of personal preference though.
__________________
'63 PV Rat Rod
'93 245 16VT Classic #1141
JohnMc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 02:25 PM   #5
redblockpowered
cone dodging dilettante
 
redblockpowered's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: In bed, probably
Default

If you're concerned about a retrofitted transmission (and I don't blame you), you could rebuild an M47 or have one rebuilt. Be prepared to buy some tools. I also wouldn't question the durability of an AW71 with frequently changed fluid in this application. If you're going to a manual gearbox I would highly recommend Redline MTL. It resolved our race car's appetite for M47s at ~140whp N/A.
__________________
1993 944 B230FT/M90 thread here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=345277
2x 1991 245 B230F/M47 (LeMons car, street car)
I sell chips for LH 2.4!
redblockpowered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 02:31 PM   #6
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
My T5 was always noisy, got noisier. After plenty of abuse behind 300 - 350 whp. But it never broke. One would probably last forever behind a stock non-boosted Volvo motor.

M47 should last about forever as well, only shift a little better (maybe) than a T5. Maybe try to find one with less than 200K on it? And teamed with a typical automatic-car rear axle ratio - the gearing is a bit short.

Swapping to a manual is more of an issue of personal preference though.
Did you ever have retrofit-related issues? I know the transmission unit itself is well-built, but it's the nature of the retrofit that scares me, since we'll be halfway across the US this June
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 06:38 PM   #7
kyote
Living The Dream
 
kyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: La Porte TX
Default

Personally, you worry too much.
Find the lowest mile volvo auto you can and send it.
No rebuilt auto transmission will ever go a quarter million miles.
Used OEM > rebuild of questionable quality, all. day. long.
__________________
-78 242 tic, a kyotefab/willettrun joint
-83 245 tic, daily in progress
-14 F150 FX4 3.5 EcoBeast (Wife's)
kyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 07:12 PM   #8
white855T
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas,TX
Default

For long trips, nothing beats an auto. Unless you drive a manual on a daily basis and are use to that driving experience, it's not worth doing it for a car that you will take on long distance trips. Makes more sense to rent a car or stay auto.
white855T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 07:51 PM   #9
sjulier
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamden CT
Default

I rebuilt the AW70 in the 93 Classic sedan after the pump seal blew. The shop that messed up the pump seal replacement paid for the rebuild.

The complete rebuild cost $2,200, including a Precision of New Hampton torque converter. I had already installed a remote spin-on AT filter. This spring I’m installing a 240 OE AT cooler. I do a cooler line exchange and filter change every 30,000 with a drain and fill at 10k and 20k. I use a full synthetic DEX VI or MV with DEX VI approval.

I don’t think the AW70 is a weak unit. I contend that clean fluid, changed frequently and a cooler are key to long life.
__________________
1993 Classic Wagon Teal Green #1446/1600 174k
1993 Classic Sedan Teal Green #140/1600 190k

Last edited by sjulier; 02-12-2020 at 08:16 PM..
sjulier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 07:53 PM   #10
hessam69
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default

If I were you, I would rebuild the transmission you already have
hessam69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 08:03 PM   #11
sjulier
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamden CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white855T View Post
For long trips, nothing beats an auto. Unless you drive a manual on a daily basis and are use to that driving experience, it's not worth doing it for a car that you will take on long distance trips. Makes more sense to rent a car or stay auto.
Totally agree. I have had both automatics and manuals. I prefer the automatic for its linear power and ease in stop and go traffic.
sjulier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 08:11 PM   #12
sjulier
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamden CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hessam69 View Post
If I were you, I would rebuild the transmission you already have
Agree.
sjulier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 08:58 PM   #13
kyote
Living The Dream
 
kyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: La Porte TX
Default

Actually, upon further thought, if I were you, I would swap on a GM 4l60e with microsquirt controlling transmission. Good used low miles oem units aplenty, locking torque converter for your mpg maximization pursuits, full programmability, and cheaper than rebuilding an AW70.
kyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 09:12 PM   #14
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IansPlatinum View Post
Did you ever have retrofit-related issues? I know the transmission unit itself is well-built, but it's the nature of the retrofit that scares me, since we'll be halfway across the US this June
Nope, just a bit of NVH. I tried poly bushings on the rear torque rods and it vibrated pretty fiercely in high gears at low rpms. Switched back to rubber and it was gone.

Pretty much all the parts are stock parts of one sort of another.
JohnMc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 09:14 PM   #15
hessam69
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyote View Post
Actually, upon further thought, if I were you, I would swap on a GM 4l60e with microsquirt controlling transmission. Good used low miles oem units aplenty, locking torque converter for your mpg maximization pursuits, full programmability, and cheaper than rebuilding an AW70.
Don't confuse the guy

His car is standard, so the transmission should be too
hessam69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 11:42 PM   #16
v8volvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SW MT
Default

If long distance travel is your plan I would look for a lockup trans above all else. Nice upgrade in a 240 that never had them from the factory.

AW70 and AW71 are both long-lasting units, with stock NA motor durability should be good either way, you won't be pushing the limits of the AW70 by any stretch. If it were me I would look for an AW70L out of a 740 or 940. Bolt right in, cheap, easy to find, probably run fine for many years. If you're concerned you could get it rebuilt later on. But chances are decent you wouldn't need to anytime soon. Get one with a 30-day warranty from a junkyard, if it doesn't have any issues right off the bat then it probably won't for a while.

If you run one of those then your effort will not just replace the trans same for same, but instead will add an upgrade that will really make a difference for noise level and MPG on the highway, you'll be amazed how much nicer it is at cruising speed with a lockup TC. And if you have to rebuild it later on then at least you're putting your money towards a real improvement to the car.

My $0.02 anyway.
__________________
86 745 D24T/ZF 340k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 145k
v8volvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 11:57 PM   #17
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8volvo View Post
If long distance travel is your plan I would look for a lockup trans above all else. Nice upgrade in a 240 that never had them from the factory.

AW70 and AW71 are both long-lasting units, with stock NA motor durability should be good either way, you won't be pushing the limits of the AW70 by any stretch. If it were me I would look for an AW70L out of a 740 or 940. Bolt right in, cheap, easy to find, probably run fine for many years. If you're concerned you could get it rebuilt later on. But chances are decent you wouldn't need to anytime soon. Get one with a 30-day warranty from a junkyard, if it doesn't have any issues right off the bat then it probably won't for a while.

If you run one of those then your effort will not just replace the trans same for same, but instead will add an upgrade that will really make a difference for noise level and MPG on the highway, you'll be amazed how much nicer it is at cruising speed with a lockup TC. And if you have to rebuild it later on then at least you're putting your money towards a real improvement to the car.

My $0.02 anyway.
Aw71L would be ideal... I'm having trouble even sourcing a core. Everybody near me on car-part said they didn't have the one they listed
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 12:06 AM   #18
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjulier View Post
I rebuilt the AW70 in the 93 Classic sedan after the pump seal blew. The shop that messed up the pump seal replacement paid for the rebuild.

The complete rebuild cost $2,200, including a Precision of New Hampton torque converter. I had already installed a remote spin-on AT filter. This spring Iím installing a 240 OE AT cooler. I do a cooler line exchange and filter change every 30,000 with a drain and fill at 10k and 20k. I use a full synthetic DEX VI or MV with DEX VI approval.

I donít think the AW70 is a weak unit. I contend that clean fluid, changed frequently and a cooler are key to long life.
When you say cooler line exchange, do you mean you replace the hoses?

Once I get the unit I choose, if it's automatic, a cooler will definitely be installed.

Wish I had a shop that would pay for my rebuild!
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 12:15 AM   #19
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyote View Post
Personally, you worry too much.
Gonna be spending a week or so in BLM 1000 miles from home. If we get stranded or have a breakdown, we'd probably be alright, but I'll have a very upset fiancee who will never let me forget how I messed up our honeymoon because I picked a beater transmission to put in my car
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 04:30 AM   #20
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: - Stock PSI Or Bust -
Default

Buy a known good AW71 from Roy and send it.
__________________
Raise The Lowered


Image hosted by servimg.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna sprout?


Redwood Chair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 08:08 AM   #21
cleanflametrap
Board Member
 
cleanflametrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: near baltimore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjulier View Post
...
I donít think the AW70 is a weak unit. I contend that clean fluid, changed frequently and a cooler are key to long life.
We've had a bunch of AW70s in 240s along with one M46, one AW55, and one AW71. No troubles* with the AW70 on cars with 375K miles, and I'm not a fluid changer unless it looks sick. My guess/suspicion/hunch is those that fail may have experienced a leak of engine coolant into the ATF. That thin barrier in the radiator is easy to disturb especially when DIY folks get advice on the web to use the retainer nuts as counter holds when breaking loose the cooler line nuts. Maybe better advice would be, as you say, a cooler. Not that I practice it.

I drive distance on the interstates with these old 240's, never seeing another for thousands of miles. My worries have not yet been with the automatic transmissions.

*aside from the usual kickdown cable failures, overdrive solenoid failures, and tailshaft bushings...
__________________
-Art
cleanflametrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 09:39 AM   #22
sjulier
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamden CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IansPlatinum View Post
When you say cooler line exchange, do you mean you replace the hoses?

Once I get the unit I choose, if it's automatic, a cooler will definitely be installed.

Wish I had a shop that would pay for my rebuild!
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/4809...kit-ipd-105310
sjulier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 11:33 AM   #23
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjulier View Post
Oh, gotcha. Yeah I have that, it's what I used 6 months ago.
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 11:45 AM   #24
tjanson
Board Member
 
tjanson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Underhill, VT
Default

One thing to consider it that an auto will likely be better for soft roading sorta stuff, which you seem to enjoy. A 3.73 rear with M47 has a fairly low first gear, but after slipping the clutch up a few rocks it'll be smoking...
__________________
1993 245 DL; LH2.4, M47 - DD & Winter Beater
1978 242 GT - To Be Restored, someday
1993 245 DL - OEM+ Project
tjanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 11:48 AM   #25
IansPlatinum
Board Member
 
IansPlatinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjanson View Post
One thing to consider it that an auto will likely be better for soft roading sorta stuff, which you seem to enjoy. A 3.73 rear with M47 has a fairly low first gear, but after slipping the clutch up a few rocks it'll be smoking...
Yeah, I was worried about that too... The car is used 98% paved roads, 2% non-paved, so I figured it wouldn't be too much an issue.

Right now the game plan I guess is gonna be to source an AW71L nationally (since I can't locate any locally), ship it via freight, install, test, and rebuild based on outcome. The goal is to give myself enough time to enact some sort of plan B (rebuild?) should the aw71L be a dud
IansPlatinum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.