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Old 02-27-2018, 06:39 AM   #1
FreeEMSFred
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Default B234F / 16v in RHD 240 with standalone questions

I have a few questions, which may not all be answerable by a majority LHD forum membership, but I'll post anyway:

1) Throttle cable from the B230K 240 is way too short to reach the stock B234F location, any factory useful options for extending it/replacing it? I'll figure something out if need be, but any pointers welcome.

2) B234F stock injector sizing information - flow rate is enough, I can fudge the rest - no I didn't search, and internet info is dubious, but those who have been there/done it will have an idea. I can guess this close enough based on power and a log from my 740 GLE doing a WOT pull with the stock Bosch junk, but a starting point would be nice.

3) Throttle/TPS - I understand Volvo used the same 4 bolt pattern for years and years, so I'll try to get an 850 or later setup for that - are there any bore-size variances to be aware of/hunt for? Or caveats/gotchas? Tips?

4) COP units to suit 16v cam cover, covered in this 1:10 SNR thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=340039

That should cover it for the most part. There are some mystery connectors in the engine bay that I need to figure out the purpose of, however aside from that, it looks a LOT cleaner with all the emissions spec carby vacuum hoses everywhere and a 16v head poking up through the hole :-)

Aside from all that, I just need to find my B234F loom and plumb/wire in a FreeEMS box/fuel system and I should be good to go, almost.

Teasers:










Project thread pending, too busy working on it for now.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:37 AM   #2
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1) No idea, but a 740 B234 cable might be worth a look if it has the same fitting the pedal end. Also, is a 240 B230F cable too short?
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:11 AM   #3
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From memory the longest cable is the B200/230E K jet cable and would most likely do teh trick for you
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:30 AM   #4
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You raise good points. So I went out and surveyed the fleet tonight, results are in:







1) 240 w/ B230K - pathetically short
2) 240 w/ B230F - decently long, would probably work
3) 740 w/ B234F - clearly long enough, but firewall fitting may differ? Had a few wines, didn't check, photo doesn't show it...
4) 940 w/ B230F - decently long, would probably work

Moral of the story, I'm likely hosed unless the B234F 940 wagon cable that I have in my storage can be fitted to the 240 engine bay/dash/pedal. No idea if that'll work or not, but going to try to find it and see if it'll work.

The issue is these old Volvos are as rare as hens teeth down here. Finding a cable from one is next to impossible short of importing from England (which is also next to impossible as their fleet is much newer in general).

Let's hope the 940 GLE cable setup can work for me.

Injectors... any takers? Seaching yielded nada and I don't have time to test them on my rig, so it's going to be a guess if no one comes through with some data for me. Yes, I know no one cares about stock injector size because likely not big enough for boost... but... :-)
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:24 PM   #5
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If you get tired of goofing around with Volvo cables you can always just buy a Lokar and make it do what you'd like.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:01 PM   #6
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Fair point, but aiming to look stock, and needs to be driving by the end of the weekend, so no chance of waiting for shipping from the US on one of those. Might be something comparable locally, though, I suppose.

Keep in mind that this car has incurred only the following costs:

450nzd (300usd) purchase - PO's perceived value of the wheels
440nzd (300usd) 940 wagon purchase including 40nzd safety inspection - value attributed to engine/trans - body reused as caravan
? some paint/bog to hide body defects for safety inspection purposes (less than 100, probably less than half that)

IE, it's a ~600usd 16v 240 sedan at this point, so pouring money into it isn't a good option

The engine only has about 70k miles on it, too. The dash in the caravan tells the story up until this installation.

Given it'll be FreeEMSed it'll come in under 1000usd when complete, too. That's good value :-)
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:31 PM   #7
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B21ft cable works used it in my 240 for a while
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Old 03-03-2018, 04:31 AM   #8
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Injector info. “The 749 injectors flow 20.75lb/hr @ 3bar, and yes they are for the B234F in the late 740 and early 940”
Here’s a bible of injector size data with part numbers and lists of info. Hop this helps.
http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/s...eifc.htm#BOSCH
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:37 PM   #9
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So I managed to make the B234F 940 cable work by boring the firewall out to 24mm or so ID and clipping it through.

To make that actually work from idle to WOT I had to remove the rubber stopper behind the gas pedal and replace it with 2 or 3mm of rubber sheet (about 3/8" thinner) and wind the manifold end adjustment out to full extreme.

Not ideal, but it works, no money spent, win.

Injector info, witch hunter shows this for the part number on this engine: https://witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150749.jpg








Which differs from the linked data above.

Rough 4cyl math: 153hp ~= (injector flow in ccpmin * 2) / 3

So injector flow ~= (153hp * 3) / 2 = 229.5 cc / min

Which is smack bang in the middle between the 218 and 238 given in your page, so I'd believe your data over the witch hunter stuff. Thanks for posting it!

Current plan is to ignore the lack of TPS for now and upgrade later for transient enrichment purposes - maybe good motivation to develop a MAP based approach to complement the TPS based one I've already engineered.

Current ignition plan is to use a set of Miata wasted spark active coils I have laying around because of how easy they are to use and how little time I have.

Will throw some appropriate photos into this thread once I'm driving around in it.
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:13 AM   #10
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Yes, I know I shouldn't rev a cold engine so high. Especially not:

1) without the oil pressure sensor being tightened down with a copper washer (was loose, no washer, clearly borrowed it for another car while in storage)
2) on a flat 60% VE "table" (read VE number, just the one)
3) with approx 20 degrees too much timing
4) while the hydraulic lifters were having a good clatter
5) without a wideband installed

etc, but hey, it had only just started and with 60% VE everywhere, it didn't have quite the fuel it needed while starting and was a bit hesitant, so I wasn't really sure it was going to run so well and rev so high with such little foot :-)

In any case, I'll get the shake-down issues sorted out and get a by-feel tune on it without a wideband, then post a video if it baking some rubber :-)

I guess I should retrospectively do a project thread for it, too. Probably deserves one, as this isn't the end of the line:

1) G80 in the rear
2) TD05HR-16G in the front
3) Rip out the B234F and drop in the BMW V12
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:23 AM   #11
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With the oil sensor washered and tightened, the rear main softened from a day of soaking in fresh oil, and the lifters run in, again, and the fluids adding and the sway bar spacing and a VE table that looks like this:

80% VE at 90+ kPa
75% VE at 80 kPa
70% VE at 70 kPa and below

She went for an outing to dinner for a car-mate's birthday tonight and ran sweet and smooth, like all 240s should have been! Success! :-)

The beauty of a properly modeled engine control strategy! Sucks to be a MS user.

The 16v B234F RHD 240 sedan out and about for the first time, just 26 days after starting work on pulling the old broken B230K stuff apart/out!







Stuff required to do this:

1) Dizzy hole plug and retainer plate
2) Sway bar mount spacers and longer bolts (3/8" / 10mm is enough)
3) Modified LHS mount and custom RHS mount
4) Standalone control to do dizzy-less ignition (I used four COPs running pseudo wasted spark)
5) Bespoke or modified throttle cable (if starting with a crappy B230K with short cable)

All in all, pretty easy swap. My second engine swap, the first being a similar SOHC to DOHC + turbo swap in my Mazda truck. More are on the near horizon, though :-)
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:40 AM   #12
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Did a couple of small one tyre fires in it this evening - won't do any more until I have some Penrite PAO/Ester 80w140 synthetic diff oil in there to preserve the ancient archaeological find, AKA Dana 30.

Also did my daily commute to work, and brought a colleague home in it who was really impressed, not with the engine swap, rather with the box of circuit and embedded code in the passenger foot well running the show, and not badly, despite the non-tune :-)

Not joking on the non tune, so here's some laughable evidence:

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Old 03-16-2018, 06:02 PM   #13
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Now street legal for another 6 months, thanks for your input guys! :-)
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Old 12-31-2020, 08:37 PM   #14
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3 years later, still driving this on the regular and STILL not tuned, just drives nice as is. Never had a wideband on it Should really get around to making some improvements, but as other 240 owners know, old bodies need attention before tune improvements when idle, cold start, and torque are all good.
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Old 01-02-2021, 05:14 PM   #15
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Well done! Great setup for a 240 power upgrade.
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Old 11-13-2021, 09:03 AM   #16
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Thanks! :-) It's not too bad and a good base to do my first turbo setup on and earn my 12 year long membership for the first time, ha ha. Once I have it nice then I can build up the setup for the prized 240 wagon and do that install.

Car has been out of commission for legal and safety reasons for a few months, unfortunately. Need to put some time into it, but other fleet members have been getting priority. Steering has a tiny bit of play and a little clunk. Tyres need to be destroyed/replaced. Bodywork is ugly and needs some love in various places. Got half way through and had to stop so they're a nice shade of brown now in two big patches on the right rear corner/side.

Miss driving it, though. Might sneak it out for a lap around the block ho-chi-min-trail style and hope I don't get caught.
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Old 11-14-2021, 04:25 AM   #17
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Hi
Are you still going to put that TD05HR-16G on it?
I have one and am interested to see how it behaves on a 16V head.
Tim
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Old 11-14-2021, 06:49 PM   #18
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Yes, that's the plan! But right now getting it road legal is the first plan poor thing.
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